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Buzzsaw wrote: Beyond that, you really have... a quite poor idea of what is in the Bible, and an even poorer notion of the differences between Jewish and Christian doctrines (which, to be fair, is likely more a symptom of the former then a specific failing).
Might be poor but clearly better than yours.
Bible claims humans are work of god. Therefore GOD decides who is gay and who is not.
If god is against gay marriages that would mean god thinks this person is never supposed to find a happy marriage.
Yet bible claims god is good and loving...That does not apply.
You really, really, REALLY should bother to read the bible. It's boring as hell(no surprise being very old fiction) but would make at least your arquments bit more sensible.
What does this thread have to do with religion can we keep this out of it?
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
Buzzsaw wrote: Beyond that, you really have... a quite poor idea of what is in the Bible, and an even poorer notion of the differences between Jewish and Christian doctrines (which, to be fair, is likely more a symptom of the former then a specific failing).
Might be poor but clearly better than yours.
Bible claims humans are work of god. Therefore GOD decides who is gay and who is not.
If god is against gay marriages that would mean god thinks this person is never supposed to find a happy marriage.
Your good. I like that argument.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
At least the flailing nincompoops in the Libertarian and Green camps didn't get their 5% and therefore percieved validation. I'm all for diversity where appropriate but diversity of terrible ideas isn't one of them.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
Eh, I wouldn't count on that. Results, facts, policy, doesn't matter. What matters is Team Red and Feelings.
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as:
-leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria
-leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
Buzzsaw wrote: While not wholly unjustified, you miss a critical difference when you call this "flip flopping": a private businessman ought not to be expected to have a nuanced view of issues that have little effect of his business.
You do realize that he made his views on AWBs public by writing about them? These weren't just personal musings from a "private" person.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Buzzsaw wrote: Beyond that, you really have... a quite poor idea of what is in the Bible, and an even poorer notion of the differences between Jewish and Christian doctrines (which, to be fair, is likely more a symptom of the former then a specific failing).
Might be poor but clearly better than yours.
Bible claims humans are work of god. Therefore GOD decides who is gay and who is not.
If god is against gay marriages that would mean god thinks this person is never supposed to find a happy marriage.
Yet bible claims god is good and loving...That does not apply.
You really, really, REALLY should bother to read the bible. It's boring as hell(no surprise being very old fiction) but would make at least your arquments bit more sensible.
Hehe, I like you. You really exemplify all the poor reasoning, blatant dishonesty and unearned moralism of contemporary atheistic advocacy. I demonstrate simple, logical maxims of textual interpretation demolish your point and you seem to think repeating a logically incoherent point makes it more logical. Ironically there is a term from Catholicism that describes you reasoning: Invincible Ignorance.
Just to be clear, you answer to the passage from Leviticus I linked above is... ? Do at least try to understand that Judaism and Christianity are different religions: I understand it's difficult for people mired in bigotry, but have faith in yourself if nothing else.
One need not believe in the Bible to be able to read it; you by contrast seem to have attempted to learn it by, osmosis perhaps? Do you alternate sleeping with a Koran as your pillow so you can lecture folks about the contents of Islam? That would seem in keeping with your current level of intellectual rigor.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as:
-leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria
-leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
If they leave in all the contradictory but independently popular aspects of the ACA that perform well in polls with carefully worded questions then it's still going to be a big expensive convoluted mess.
My Facebook feed is full of #NeverTrump Republicans blaming the Democrats for Trump's soon-to-be Presidency.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Stevefamine wrote: A lot of hate ITT for our new President of the United States
Lets see what he can do January 20th and after. I'm excited to see what the future has in store with the red seats in house, a solid senate, and what Obama's leaving office procedure is.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as: -leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria -leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
If they leave in all the contradictory but independently popular aspects of the ACA that perform well in polls with carefully worded questions then it's still going to be a big expensive convoluted mess.
Oh... I agree.
It just depends in the state of the Senate filibuster.
If they decide to keep it, then the only way to get through a repeal is via budget reconcilation... which is kinda half-assed because you can only address the laws/regulations dealing with funding.
However, the passage of the ACA has contributed to three absolute Democratic drubbings. The 2010 and 2014 wave elections that decapitated a rising generation of potential Democratic party leaders. Maybe the Democrats will stop fighting for it and the GOP will find 9 Ds to join in the repeal...
Or... Mitch the Knife can simply nuke the filibuster altogether and just get on with the repeal in solo fashion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 19:48:03
Buzzsaw wrote: While not wholly unjustified, you miss a critical difference when you call this "flip flopping": a private businessman ought not to be expected to have a nuanced view of issues that have little effect of his business.
You do realize that he made his views on AWBs public by writing about them? These weren't just personal musings from a "private" person.
Presuming the following is accurate, his position can be reconciled in 2 ways;
Back in 2000, Trump, in his book "The America We Deserve," said he supported the 1994 federal assault weapons ban. (The law expired in 2004 and was not renewed by Congress.)
"I generally oppose gun control," he wrote then, "but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today's internet technology we should be able to tell within 72 hours if a potential gun owner has a record."
But in a policy paper released in September 2015, a little more than three months into his campaign, Trump offered a very different take.
"Gun and magazine bans are a total failure," he said. "That's been proven every time it's been tried. Opponents of gun rights try to come up with scary sounding phrases like 'assault weapons', 'military-style weapons' and 'high capacity magazines' to confuse people. What they're really talking about are popular semi-automatic rifles and standard magazines that are owned by tens of millions of Americans."
This discrepancy can be reconciled first as 'the facts changed, therefore my opinion of the facts changed'. Nothing wrong with that: the complete failure of the AWB ought to have changed everyone's mind.
The second way (likely the more credible): that he doesn't actually care and simply said what he did for sales, or for political advantage.
In either case, he seems the clear superior of Hillary. She, I think most will agree, actually cares about guns in a way I strongly disagree with. When it comes to presidents, I would rather have someone that is uncommitted then someone that is strongly committed to the wrong thing.
As an aside, I mean 'private' as in not a member of government (a 'public official'), not in the legal sense of a public figure in terms of the slander laws.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Should we be looking at the Conservative "Utopia" of Kansas to know how the next 4 years are going to run?
I hear thats working out well for them.
I'm in Wichita, KS which is one of the more 'representative' cities within the US (demographic breakdown of Wichita is very similar to broader US population). We're seeing a lot of gang-related violence; one of my buddies is effectively a CSI and he was telling me about trying to track down an actual cartel hitman who's been doing 'business' here on behalf of his foreign overlords. There's also a lot of sex trafficking, in particular Asian, due to being kind of a central hub from which it's easy to access the broader US.
Wichita is an interesting town because it's very 'blue collar', a lot of ties to agriculture, but economic activity mostly driven by airplane manufacture. In the southern half of the city, a lot of ties to military. In the northern half of the city, the Kochs.
While at times it might seem that it is impossible to separate Church (Religion) from State (Politics) in the USA, we can at least do this in the "US Politics" thread.
Please feel free to start a separate thread on the subject that appears to be showing up in this thread...a lot.
Stevefamine wrote: A lot of hate ITT for our new President of the United States
Lets see what he can do January 20th and after. I'm excited to see what the future has in store with the red seats in house, a solid senate, and what Obama's leaving office procedure is.
Buzzsaw - opinions on the new VP Pence?
Pence I will admit to not knowing an enormous amount about. I was strongly in favor of his actions in passing Indiana's RFRA to protect the rights of religious minorities and others in Indiana, but he did rather muff the argument and defense of the point. That said, he does seem to be on the liberty side of the issue.
His behavior on the campaign, however, has been exemplary from everything I have observed, as well as his debate performance. Given Trump's age, it's not entirely dismiss-able that Pence might take up Trump's mantle in 2020.
Apropos of my earlier points about Trump and guns, Pence is a staunch 2A supporter. All in all, Pence strikes me as a someone who will be a fine VP and, possibly, a credible nominee in his own right. I see little reason to doubt his capacity to hold the office if tragedy were to strike, although he suffers a bit from the Romney 'factory haircut' style of politician.
But that's a pretty minor concern at this point, heh.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: While at times it might seem that it is impossible to separate Church (Religion) from State (Politics) in the USA, we can at least do this in the "US Politics" thread.
Please feel free to start a separate thread on the subject that appears to be showing up in this thread...a lot.
Buzzsaw wrote: This discrepancy can be reconciled first as 'the facts changed, therefore my opinion of the facts changed'. Nothing wrong with that: the complete failure of the AWB ought to have changed everyone's mind.
The second way (likely the more credible): that he doesn't actually care and simply said what he did for sales, or for political advantage.
In either case, he seems the clear superior of Hillary. She, I think most will agree, actually cares about guns in a way I strongly disagree with. When it comes to presidents, I would rather have someone that is uncommitted then someone that is strongly committed to the wrong thing.
You basically just said you don't mind being lied to as long as you like the lie.
As an aside, I mean 'private' as in not a member of government (a 'public official'), not in the legal sense of a public figure in terms of the slander laws.
What?
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Stevefamine wrote: A lot of hate ITT for our new President of the United States
Lets see what he can do January 20th and after. I'm excited to see what the future has in store with the red seats in house, a solid senate, and what Obama's leaving office procedure is.
Buzzsaw - opinions on the new VP Pence?
Pence is a piece of gak
POS? - I thought we had a mod just mention the swear filter.
That wasn't really an opinion. I assume you were behind another Republican Candidate and went third party/no vote? Which speech of his did you watch? I thought he was extremely solid in Kaine vs Pence. I know he had a solid speech in Iowa how was the Chicago speech?
eidt: Thanks Buzzsaw. Yeah I've watched him speak a dozen or so times now, he's much better than what I originally envisioned when he was picked. I had no prior knowledge of him and had to do some digging. Compared to the Don's debates, he looked great. All of my friends are gun-owners and like him a lot. I will be an owner shortly in PA - but as of now I do not own one or follow the NRA at all
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/09 20:02:10
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as:
-leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria
-leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
If they leave in all the contradictory but independently popular aspects of the ACA that perform well in polls with carefully worded questions then it's still going to be a big expensive convoluted mess.
Oh... I agree.
It just depends in the state of the Senate filibuster.
If they decide to keep it, then the only way to get through a repeal is via budget reconcilation... which is kinda half-assed because you can only address the laws/regulations dealing with funding.
However, the passage of the ACA has contributed to three absolute Democratic drubbings. The 2010 and 2014 wave elections that decapitated a rising generation of potential Democratic party leaders. Maybe the Democrats will stop fighting for it and the GOP will find 9 Ds to join in the repeal...
Or... Mitch the Knife can simply nuke the filibuster altogether and just get on with the repeal in solo fashion.
I don't trust Republicans to be able to deliver a pragmatic functional complete overhaul to our health insurance industry any more than I do the Democrats. If the Republicans repeal the ACA they have to replace it with something and the possibility of that something gets through Congress and still being worthwhile legislation is remote at best and it will be time consuming as well. The Republicans' easiest path to doing something about the ACA is to keep the "good" parts and replace the "bad" parts and try to get Democrats on board with it since it's more of an adjustment to the ACA than a repeal or repudiation of it. Otherwise the party of limited govt is going to get stuck drafted an enormous complicated bill dedicated to the federal govt taking control over an industry that represents about a quarter of our economy passing it mostly along party lines and then hoping it doesn't fail too miserably once it gets implemented and cause the kind of voter backlash that the Dems have suffered.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as:
-leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria
-leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
If they leave in all the contradictory but independently popular aspects of the ACA that perform well in polls with carefully worded questions then it's still going to be a big expensive convoluted mess.
Oh... I agree.
It just depends in the state of the Senate filibuster.
If they decide to keep it, then the only way to get through a repeal is via budget reconcilation... which is kinda half-assed because you can only address the laws/regulations dealing with funding.
However, the passage of the ACA has contributed to three absolute Democratic drubbings. The 2010 and 2014 wave elections that decapitated a rising generation of potential Democratic party leaders. Maybe the Democrats will stop fighting for it and the GOP will find 9 Ds to join in the repeal...
Or... Mitch the Knife can simply nuke the filibuster altogether and just get on with the repeal in solo fashion.
blaming 2010 and 2014 midterms on the ACA is a bit of a stretch, particularly with the way congressional districts were set up coupled with low turnout, they probably would have happened ACA or no, though the extent of the drubbings may have been less severe.
The ACA is a thorny issue for me personally. It has major issues, particularly with the insurance markets. It also however has many critical provisions that we cannot afford to do away with. I know at least two people alive today that would absolutely have died without provisions of the ACA, including one good friend I consider as close as blood family who is yet again in the hospital awaiting a transplant this time who would absolutely have died in 2012 had pre-ACA policies been in place (he was 25 and had pre existing conditions and allowed to be covered under his parents health insurance which allowed him to stay in the hospital for monitoring where they caught internal bleeding that would have killed him in a few hours, whereas previously he would have just had the initial referral condition stabilized and sent home right away since his job did not offer insurance).
It will be strange times ahead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 20:00:51
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Buzzsaw wrote: This discrepancy can be reconciled first as 'the facts changed, therefore my opinion of the facts changed'. Nothing wrong with that: the complete failure of the AWB ought to have changed everyone's mind.
The second way (likely the more credible): that he doesn't actually care and simply said what he did for sales, or for political advantage.
In either case, he seems the clear superior of Hillary. She, I think most will agree, actually cares about guns in a way I strongly disagree with. When it comes to presidents, I would rather have someone that is uncommitted then someone that is strongly committed to the wrong thing.
You basically just said you don't mind being lied to as long as you like the lie.
I think that it is the nature of a politician to lie, and to expect otherwise is to expect water to flow uphill.
As an aside, I mean 'private' as in not a member of government (a 'public official'), not in the legal sense of a public figure in terms of the slander laws.
What?
I apologize, as an attorney I sometimes dive into the jargon recklessly. For purposes of libel laws, there are different standards for proving libel depending on whether the individual is a public figure, a limited public figure and so on. For purposes of libel laws, Trump has been a public figure for many years.
As I was using the term, distinguishing between state and non-state (private) employment, Trump is still a private figure, right up until he takes the oath of office.
WrentheFaceless wrote: Should we be looking at the Conservative "Utopia" of Kansas to know how the next 4 years are going to run?
I hear thats working out well for them.
I'm in Wichita, KS which is one of the more 'representative' cities within the US (demographic breakdown of Wichita is very similar to broader US population). We're seeing a lot of gang-related violence; one of my buddies is effectively a CSI and he was telling me about trying to track down an actual cartel hitman who's been doing 'business' here on behalf of his foreign overlords. There's also a lot of sex trafficking, in particular Asian, due to being kind of a central hub from which it's easy to access the broader US.
Wichita is an interesting town because it's very 'blue collar', a lot of ties to agriculture, but economic activity mostly driven by airplane manufacture. In the southern half of the city, a lot of ties to military. In the northern half of the city, the Kochs.
What do you want to know about Kansas?
How does Snyder keep getting top talent to commit to going to college in Manhattan KS? Did he make a pact with the devil? Is he a hypnotist? Are the "amber waves of grain" really mesmerizing? Kansas ends up fielding a terrible team every year regardless of who the coach is while Snyder gets NFL caliber playmakers, the man is a magician.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as:
-leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria
-leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
If they leave in all the contradictory but independently popular aspects of the ACA that perform well in polls with carefully worded questions then it's still going to be a big expensive convoluted mess.
Oh... I agree.
It just depends in the state of the Senate filibuster.
If they decide to keep it, then the only way to get through a repeal is via budget reconcilation... which is kinda half-assed because you can only address the laws/regulations dealing with funding.
However, the passage of the ACA has contributed to three absolute Democratic drubbings. The 2010 and 2014 wave elections that decapitated a rising generation of potential Democratic party leaders. Maybe the Democrats will stop fighting for it and the GOP will find 9 Ds to join in the repeal...
Or... Mitch the Knife can simply nuke the filibuster altogether and just get on with the repeal in solo fashion.
I don't trust Republicans to be able to deliver a pragmatic functional complete overhaul to our health insurance industry any more than I do the Democrats. If the Republicans repeal the ACA they have to replace it with something and the possibility of that something gets through Congress and still being worthwhile legislation is remote at best and it will be time consuming as well. The Republicans' easiest path to doing something about the ACA is to keep the "good" parts and replace the "bad" parts and try to get Democrats on board with it since it's more of an adjustment to the ACA than a repeal or repudiation of it. Otherwise the party of limited govt is going to get stuck drafted an enormous complicated bill dedicated to the federal govt taking control over an industry that represents about a quarter of our economy passing it mostly along party lines and then hoping it doesn't fail too miserably once it gets implemented and cause the kind of voter backlash that the Dems have suffered.
The path for the GOP is simply to repeal the ACA in it's entirety, with a sunset date (so that current plans are unaffected giving everyone time).
The "good" things in the ACA could be passed in conjuction and well as other provisions.
You forget, Congress did actually pass a repeal bill that forced Obama to veto.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
Eh, I wouldn't count on that. Results, facts, policy, doesn't matter. What matters is Team Red and Feelings.
A lot of Trump's people are not actually team red but yes they will fight tooth and nail to pass blame.
My Facebook feed is full of #NeverTrump Republicans blaming the Democrats for Trump's soon-to-be Presidency.
In a round about way, they are. They didn't vote or they felt they already won. Saw some liberal articles telling young people that its okay not to vote if it gives you anxiety. Liberals failed themselves and deserve what is coming to them. The least they could have done was hold up local or legislative but they handed the entire government over in arrogance.
I don't like the idea of a single party government. The fascists might just get what they have been hunting for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 20:07:04
Stevefamine wrote: A lot of hate ITT for our new President of the United States
Lets see what he can do January 20th and after. I'm excited to see what the future has in store with the red seats in house, a solid senate, and what Obama's leaving office procedure is.
Buzzsaw - opinions on the new VP Pence?
Pence is a piece of gak
POS? - I thought we had a mod just mention the swear filter.
That wasn't really an opinion. I assume you were behind another Republican Candidate and went third party/no vote? Which speech of his did you watch? I thought he was extremely solid in Kaine vs Pence. I know he had a solid speech in Iowa how was the Chicago speech?
eidt: Thanks Buzzsaw. Yeah I've watched him speak a dozen or so times now, he's much better than what I originally envisioned when he was picked. I had no prior knowledge of him and had to do some digging. Compared to the Don's debates, he looked great. All of my friends are gun-owners and like him a lot. I will be an owner shortly in PA - but as of now I do not own one or follow the NRA at all
Heh, if you're in Eastern Pa (Bucks county) drop me a line via PM, perhaps we can do some shooting.
Yet one more irony of the Obama era: President Obama was hapless at enacting gun control, but he was the greatest gun seller in American history, "52,600 a day". Most estimates place the number of firearms sold under Obama somewhere around 150 million.
Trump's election may actually prompt some good deals as ramped up production adjusts to less buying. Be sure to keep your eyes open for an 'election special'.
BrotherGecko wrote: The Republicans won big....too big. Now they actually are stuck acting on their policies. They don't get to blame the liberals, they won't get rely on scare tactics about liberals. Even people in this forum will lose the ability to say "just as bad" as there is nobody to he as bad as. Republicans lost their get out of jail free card. For 4 years any failures are their fault. And IF they fail then the entire ideology will be a failure.
Should be interesting to say the least.
The ACA is going to be interesting to watch. They got 80 some votes to repeal, but what will they do when it actually has consequences?
They're not going to repeal it. If they repeal they have to replace it with something. They already backed off their repeal rhetoric years ago and switched to tweaking/"fixing" parts of it which is just going to make it more of a hodgepodge of contradictions, convoluted regulations and unintended consequences. Some aspects of the ACA might actually be improved but the general status of "Healthcare" in the US is still going to be a monumental snafu.
I disagree.
The ACA is going to be repealed (or at least gutted), with some stuff left in, such as:
-leaving the prohibition of using pre-existing condition criteria
-leaving the prohibition of having lifetime maximum coverage
They'll pass some sort of 'Medicaid' program targeting those remaining 20-30 million people w/o insurance.
If they leave in all the contradictory but independently popular aspects of the ACA that perform well in polls with carefully worded questions then it's still going to be a big expensive convoluted mess.
Oh... I agree.
It just depends in the state of the Senate filibuster.
If they decide to keep it, then the only way to get through a repeal is via budget reconcilation... which is kinda half-assed because you can only address the laws/regulations dealing with funding.
However, the passage of the ACA has contributed to three absolute Democratic drubbings. The 2010 and 2014 wave elections that decapitated a rising generation of potential Democratic party leaders. Maybe the Democrats will stop fighting for it and the GOP will find 9 Ds to join in the repeal...
Or... Mitch the Knife can simply nuke the filibuster altogether and just get on with the repeal in solo fashion.
I don't trust Republicans to be able to deliver a pragmatic functional complete overhaul to our health insurance industry any more than I do the Democrats. If the Republicans repeal the ACA they have to replace it with something and the possibility of that something gets through Congress and still being worthwhile legislation is remote at best and it will be time consuming as well. The Republicans' easiest path to doing something about the ACA is to keep the "good" parts and replace the "bad" parts and try to get Democrats on board with it since it's more of an adjustment to the ACA than a repeal or repudiation of it. Otherwise the party of limited govt is going to get stuck drafted an enormous complicated bill dedicated to the federal govt taking control over an industry that represents about a quarter of our economy passing it mostly along party lines and then hoping it doesn't fail too miserably once it gets implemented and cause the kind of voter backlash that the Dems have suffered.
The path for the GOP is simply to repeal the ACA in it's entirety, with a sunset date (so that current plans are unaffected giving everyone time).
The "good" things in the ACA could be passed in conjuction and well as other provisions.
You forget, Congress did actually pass a repeal bill that forced Obama to veto.
I didn't forget I just discount it as a show vote. Every Republican got to go on record as voting to repeal the ACA when they knew that Obama would veto it and the Republicans didn't have the votes to overturn the veto. It was a completely safe vote. Repealing the ACA with Trump to sign off on it puts the Republicans on the hook for replacing it with Comprehensive Federally Controlled Health Insurance 2.0 and I have zero faith in Congress to come up with anything practical and workable that doesn't end up bankrupting itself and causing more harmful unintended consequences.
Desubot wrote: What does this thread have to do with religion can we keep this out of it?
That's a very good point. It doesn't matter whether or not anti-LGBT bigots are correct in their interpretation of their religious texts, we are a secular nation and all that matters is the end result. And no matter how you interpret any religious text their beliefs are awful and their policy positions are awful.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
