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I think it's less important than the fact random citizens think they can find a solution in less than an hour to a problem their government hasn't found a solution to in ten years.
How long did it take you to come up with the solution "raise the gas tax"?
An hour or ten years?
A lifetime of punching poor, single mothers in the dick.
Not a literal dick. A proverbial one. Mom's don't have dicks.
Unless they're Mr. Moms, but that's none of my business.
Pouncey wrote: Enjoy watching your fellow citizens die live on the national news in the near future from a bridge having collapsed or a dam burst because you didn't care.
Why do you insist on having this false dilemma between "don't care and do nothing" and "tax the poor to pay for it"? Sales taxes, especially sales taxes on essential goods and services (like gas), disproportionately hurt poor people because poor people spend a much greater percentage of their income on those things. We need to increase infrastructure spending, but taxing the poor to pay for it is not the right approach.
Holy feth monkeys! We agree on another thing!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:21:41
"A lifetime of punching poor, single mothers in the dick.
Not a literal dick. A proverbial one. Mom's don't have dicks.
Unless they're Mr. Moms, but that's none of my business.
"DON'T FEED THE BABY CHILI!"
-Mr. Mom
"OK feed them chili and candy as long as the kids will be picking them back up within the hour. paybacks a B..."
-Frazzled, on taking care of grandkids.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I think it's less important than the fact random citizens think they can find a solution in less than an hour to a problem their government hasn't found a solution to in ten years.
How long did it take you to come up with the solution "raise the gas tax"?
An hour or ten years?
A lifetime of punching poor, single mothers in the dick.
Not a literal dick. A proverbial one. Mom's don't have dicks.
Unless they're Mr. Moms, but that's none of my business.
Actually, that's not the solution I'm proposing, the gas tax is the solution your own government proposed several decades ago when they made it a thing. I'm just repeating your government's statements that there doesn't seem to be another way to do it.
Also, if you have another solution, e-mail it to your Congressman right now, and tell them they can take credit for using it. Right now. Don't reply to this until you've done that.
We had two government proposals to invade Canada. What do you think of that? Now of course our government's not very good so those plans didn't work out.
We could steal all your stuff to pay for the roads, and then put polar bears in charge-thus protecting them. Its win win (unless you're a seal, then its lose lose)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:28:40
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Pouncey wrote: Actually, that's not the solution I'm proposing, the gas tax is the solution your own government proposed several decades ago when they made it a thing. I'm just repeating your government's statements that there doesn't seem to be another way to do it.
Your "solution" is to raise gas taxes. The fact that there's an existing tax doesn't change the fact that you're talking about a new tax policy that will disproportionately hurt poor people.
Also, if you have another solution, e-mail it to your Congressman right now, and tell them they can take credit for using it. Right now. Don't reply to this until you've done that.
The issue is not that people are sitting around saying "I have no idea how to fund this, someone please help us", it's the usual political stuff. Solving the funding problem would be trivially easy of everyone agreed to make it a priority.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Peregrine wrote: Your "solution" is to raise gas taxes. The fact that there's an existing tax doesn't change the fact that you're talking about a new tax policy that will disproportionately hurt poor people.
Again, no, that's also the solution your government tried but can't do because raising the gas tax is too unpopular so it would be political suicide. Again, I'm just telling you that that is the solution your government came up with, these are not my ideas.
The issue is not that people are sitting around saying "I have no idea how to fund this, someone please help us", it's the usual political stuff. Solving the funding problem would be trivially easy of everyone agreed to make it a priority.
What usual political stuff? Your entire government agrees on this.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:32:29
Pouncey wrote: Enjoy watching your fellow citizens die live on the national news in the near future from a bridge having collapsed or a dam burst because you didn't care.
Why do you insist on having this false dilemma between "don't care and do nothing" and "tax the poor to pay for it"? Sales taxes, especially sales taxes on essential goods and services (like gas), disproportionately hurt poor people because poor people spend a much greater percentage of their income on those things. We need to increase infrastructure spending, but taxing the poor to pay for it is not the right approach.
Peregrine wrote: Your "solution" is to raise gas taxes. The fact that there's an existing tax doesn't change the fact that you're talking about a new tax policy that will disproportionately hurt poor people.
Again, no, that's also the solution your government tried but can't do because raising the gas tax is too unpopular so it would be political suicide. Again, I'm just telling you that that is the solution your government came up with, these are not my ideas.
That is one solution. You seem to have missed larger structural block grants across states for multiple projects, perennially done in major downturns. how does Canada fund its government? I know you charge VAT-thus hating poor people. But how else?
The issue is not that people are sitting around saying "I have no idea how to fund this, someone please help us", it's the usual political stuff. Solving the funding problem would be trivially easy of everyone agreed to make it a priority.
What usual political stuff? Your entire government agrees on this.
When you say our entire government agrees on anything you're making yourself look silly willy. We don't agree on anything.
Again, its called budgeting. It takes time to come up with major spending plans-so many opportunities to get rich, it can't just go to waste.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:37:44
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Youtube is not an acceptable cite except for cat videos.
pro-tip Youtube, Twitter, Reddit, Snapchat, and FB are not acceptable sources to support any argument. Quoting me, of course, is.
EDIT: You never did answer me on Yonge street or how the Canadian government pays for roads. Did you know in Calgary they just ride herds of moose (meese? mooses?) through to make a road? Then they poor Molson on it and its good to go.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:42:43
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I think it's less important than the fact random citizens think they can find a solution in less than an hour to a problem their government hasn't found a solution to in ten years.
How long did it take you to come up with the solution "raise the gas tax"?
An hour or ten years?
A lifetime of punching poor, single mothers in the dick.
Not a literal dick. A proverbial one. Mom's don't have dicks.
Unless they're Mr. Moms, but that's none of my business.
Actually, that's not the solution I'm proposing, the gas tax is the solution your own government proposed several decades ago when they made it a thing. I'm just repeating your government's statements that there doesn't seem to be another way to do it.
Also, if you have another solution, e-mail it to your Congressman right now, and tell them they can take credit for using it. Right now. Don't reply to this until you've done that.
There is nothing preventing congress from allocating more money in the budget to the Highway Trust Fund. Congress spent 3.7 trillion in 2015 there is plenty of money available to allocate to transit infrastructure if it's needed. If more money is needed for roads and bridges we don't have to artificially limit the source of those funds only to the federal gas tax exclusively. The only obstacle in the way is getting politicians to cut back funds earmarked for other programs in order to move it to transit spending. It's entirely political.
Interesting discussion about funding for infrastructure. First off for the benefit of our Canadian friend, infrastructure which for the purspose of this discussion we will limit to transportation, i.e. roads, bridges, etc. are funded currently by several different entities that raise the funds for these projects through numerous methods. In Texas where I live the source of funds are;
1. Federal reimbursements (allegedly via the Federal gas tax, though sometimes through special appropriations)
2. State Highway funds (tax dollars/fees like vehicle registrations, perpetually earmarked for that purpose)
3. Bond proceeds (typically paid for by tolls collected on toll roads or through special taxing districts)
4. Concession fees
5. Texas Mobility fund (Essentially a special bond measure approved by voters)
6. General revenue, i.e. specific appropriations approved by the state legislature using tax money that is not already allocated to a specific purpose
7. Local funds from counties and municipalities which typically come from local property and sales taxes or Municipal Utility Districts or Improvement Districts.
8. Private developers, usually residential and real estate developers who must initially pay for neighborhood streets, traffic lights, turning lanes, or other improvements to integrate their development into the local road system
As you can see the funding mechanisms for roads and such at least in Texas is already quite diverse. Other things being considered or tried on a limited basis;
1. Hybrid private-public partnerships (lookup Texas State Highway 130)
2. Increased Motor Vehicle Sales Tax
3. Transportation Reinvestment Zones (special type of property tax)
4. Vehicle Miles Traveled tax (I believe a pilot program is already underway in other states)
The last one is very controversial but has been proposed as a way to make up for the fact that due to increase fuel efficiency, vehicles are using overall less fuel per mile which means less tax money per mile, especially hybrid and electric cars. Consequentially I think the VMT tax is probably where things are headed, but it is full of political and economic consequences that are hard to fully envision much less try to establish what the overall monetary impact would be.
Raising the federal gas tax is really DOA because no politician will vote for it given as others have already mentioned it is highly regressive and no politician wants to be blamed for raising taxes, especially taxes on the poor.
"Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words." ~ St. Francis of Assisi
No, you didn't,because your response was irrelevant to what I actually said.
That's the second time on Dakka that you, Pouncey, have tried to derail a conversation with "You didn't quote my whole post so I don't have to listen to you."
I will not allow it any further.
You said tax the gas.
I've said that punishes the poor.
You reply that's not the solution you're proposing. You don't understand that gas tax = hurts the poor more than the rich.
Sorry, Pouncey. It 100% is. Own it. It's your bed that you've made. Own it. Accept it. This is what being part of a discussion forum is about. If someone doesn't agree with you, argue with facts. Don't bury your head in the sand and expect to not get called out on it.
Gas tax = bad for the poor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/21 20:43:35
Lord of Deeds wrote: Interesting discussion about funding for infrastructure. First off for the benefit of our Canadian friend, infrastructure which for the purspose of this discussion we will limit to transportation, i.e. roads, bridges, etc. are funded currently by several different entities that raise the funds for these projects through numerous methods. In Texas where I live the source of funds are;
1. Federal reimbursements (allegedly via the Federal gas tax, though sometimes through special appropriations)
2. State Highway funds (tax dollars/fees like vehicle registrations, perpetually earmarked for that purpose)
3. Bond proceeds (typically paid for by tolls collected on toll roads or through special taxing districts)
4. Concession fees
5. Texas Mobility fund (Essentially a special bond measure approved by voters)
6. General revenue, i.e. specific appropriations approved by the state legislature using tax money that is not already allocated to a specific purpose
7. Local funds from counties and municipalities which typically come from local property and sales taxes or Municipal Utility Districts or Improvement Districts.
8. Private developers, usually residential and real estate developers who must initially pay for neighborhood streets, traffic lights, turning lanes, or other improvements to integrate their development into the local road system
As you can see the funding mechanisms for roads and such at least in Texas is already quite diverse. Other things being considered or tried on a limited basis;
1. Hybrid private-public partnerships (lookup Texas State Highway 130)
2. Increased Motor Vehicle Sales Tax
3. Transportation Reinvestment Zones (special type of property tax)
4. Vehicle Miles Traveled tax (I believe a pilot program is already underway in other states)
The last one is very controversial but has been proposed as a way to make up for the fact that due to increase fuel efficiency, vehicles are using overall less fuel per mile which means less tax money per mile, especially hybrid and electric cars. Consequentially I think the VMT tax is probably where things are headed, but it is full of political and economic consequences that are hard to fully envision much less try to establish what the overall monetary impact would be.
Raising the federal gas tax is really DOA because no politician will vote for it given as others have already mentioned it is highly regressive and no politician wants to be blamed for raising taxes, especially taxes on the poor.
Lord of Deeds has answered the question in proper professorial format (we are not worthy!). lets move on, unless we're talking the politics of bacon and maple syrup of course.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Lord of Deeds wrote: Interesting discussion about funding for infrastructure. First off for the benefit of our Canadian friend, infrastructure which for the purspose of this discussion we will limit to transportation, i.e. roads, bridges, etc. are funded currently by several different entities that raise the funds for these projects through numerous methods. In Texas where I live the source of funds are;
1. Federal reimbursements (allegedly via the Federal gas tax, though sometimes through special appropriations)
2. State Highway funds (tax dollars/fees like vehicle registrations, perpetually earmarked for that purpose)
3. Bond proceeds (typically paid for by tolls collected on toll roads or through special taxing districts)
4. Concession fees
5. Texas Mobility fund (Essentially a special bond measure approved by voters)
6. General revenue, i.e. specific appropriations approved by the state legislature using tax money that is not already allocated to a specific purpose
7. Local funds from counties and municipalities which typically come from local property and sales taxes or Municipal Utility Districts or Improvement Districts.
8. Private developers, usually residential and real estate developers who must initially pay for neighborhood streets, traffic lights, turning lanes, or other improvements to integrate their development into the local road system
As you can see the funding mechanisms for roads and such at least in Texas is already quite diverse. Other things being considered or tried on a limited basis;
1. Hybrid private-public partnerships (lookup Texas State Highway 130)
2. Increased Motor Vehicle Sales Tax
3. Transportation Reinvestment Zones (special type of property tax)
4. Vehicle Miles Traveled tax (I believe a pilot program is already underway in other states)
The last one is very controversial but has been proposed as a way to make up for the fact that due to increase fuel efficiency, vehicles are using overall less fuel per mile which means less tax money per mile, especially hybrid and electric cars. Consequentially I think the VMT tax is probably where things are headed, but it is full of political and economic consequences that are hard to fully envision much less try to establish what the overall monetary impact would be.
Raising the federal gas tax is really DOA because no politician will vote for it given as others have already mentioned it is highly regressive and no politician wants to be blamed for raising taxes, especially taxes on the poor.
You spent more time on this than I would ever give him, but I thank you for your most excellent post.
No, you didn't,because your response was irrelevant to what I actually said.
That's the second time on Dakka that you, Pouncey, have tried to derail a conversation with "You didn't quote my whole post so I don't have to listen to you."
I will not allow it any further.
You said tax the gas.
I've said that punishes the poor.
You reply that's not the solution you're proposing. You don't understand that gas tax = hurts the poor more than the rich.
Sorry, Pouncey. It 100% is. Own it. It's your bed that you've made. Own it. Accept it. This is what being part of a discussion forum is about. If someone doesn't agree with you, argue with facts. Don't bury your head in the sand and expect to not get called out on it.
Gas tax = bad for the poor.
I also said that if you have any ideas at all, you should e-mail your Congressman.
Because I watched clips of the Speaker of the House from three different years talking about his own solution to this and he came up with nothing.
Scroll down for their mugshots. Stereotype...AFFIRMED.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Own it, Pouncey. "My solution for infrastructure repairs is to tax the poor to pay for it." Stop trying to dodge this by demanding that the rest of us come up with a solution.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
