Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

locarno24 wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I think Sabines TIE has potential. Zeb with Sabines masterpiece is cheap as buggery - the cheapest crew slot in the game, I think - rebel operative is close but very slow and predictable - and you can use it to bring tge cheap support crew - kanan jarrus, jan ors, etc, or a black market slicer, without needing to break the bank to have a ship to put them in. If BMS is that scary for an ace opponent, then a cheap rebel TIE gives you a weapon which can at least give soontir fel pause, without needing to go the whole hog tooling up your squad to kill aces.

Yeah Zeb is basically a Black Squadron Pilot (14pt with title, probably) with a crew and illicit slot instead of an EPT. Also unlike the shuttle his ability will see mileage (since you don't have shields).

The problem is the weak carriage of the tie, however since it is pretty cheap I am not sure if that is all that bad... It definitely isn't a shuttle.

I don't know if the Rebels have any crew that are worth dedicating 15 points to for high level play in particular.

 Smacks wrote:
Might see some Force Awakens ships, there is Kylo Ren's shuttle and the Quad Jumper

Totally called it back in April! -- What comes next thread

I expected the Quad Jumper to be a much bigger better ship, however. Considering it was Rey's first choice in the movie, and the Falcon is allegedly "garbage" by comparison... I was expecting it to be a sort of a high performance "muscle car" type ship, at least Punisher sized. Looking at Fantasy Flight's interpretation, it's a good job Rey didn't attempt to escape in it, or it would have been a short film.

 Smacks wrote:

 Smacks wrote:
Might see some Force Awakens ships, there is Kylo Ren's shuttle and the Quad Jumper

Totally called it back in April! -- What comes next thread

I expected the Quad Jumper to me a much bigger better ship, however. Considering it was Rey's first choice in the movie, and the Falcon is allegedly "garbage" by comparison... I was expecting it to be a sort of a high performance "muscle car" type ship, at least Punisher sized. Looking at Fantasy Flight's interpretation, it's a good job Rey didn't attempt to escape in it, or it would have been a short film.

That wasn't a hard call, there's literally only one more ship to go from that movie now (the b-wing transport thingy).

Well, If Rey called the Falcon "garbage", imagine what she could have done in with a Quadjumper ... I mean, not even Han could pull off the stunts she did with the Falcon.

One doesn't start building a muscle car by purchasing a lorry.

The Falcon is a freighter, if one was looking to flee from TIE Fighters, I'd be looking at the tiny ship with the four enormous engines bolted to it too.

Yeah Zeb is basically a Black Squadron Pilot (14pt with title, probably) with a crew and illicit slot instead of an EPT. Also unlike the shuttle his ability will see mileage (since you don't have shields).

Crew, Illicit and his pilot ability - which is actually quite nice on a more evasive, shieldless TIE figher. The number of times one hit sneaks through and it's a bloody Direct Hit! card beggars belief.

Certainly, without the title he's hands-down better than an Obsidian Squadron Pilot thanks to that ability. On the other hand, he's unique (so can't be taken in a swarm) and there's no Rebel analogue to Howlrunner, so I guess it works out.

The problem is the weak carriage of the tie, however since it is pretty cheap I am not sure if that is all that bad... It definitely isn't a shuttle.

I don't know if the Rebels have any crew that are worth dedicating 15 points to for high level play in particular.

The ones who springs to mind (as I mentioned before) are Kanan Jarrus and Jan Ors. If you were going to have a Z-95 or Prototype Pilot blocker anyway, you can bring along a very nice range 1-2 support crew as a freebie bonus - which normally would require a dedicated and largely useless HWK, or else an expensively equipped HWK or natively expensive B-wing-E.

It's essentially a rebel equivalent to the TIE Shuttle title card. You wouldn't put anything expensive on that, either, but it's a nice option for getting cheapish support crew like fleet officers on the board.

 Stormonu wrote:
That wasn't a hard call, there's literally only one more ship to go from that movie now (the b-wing transport thingy).

Well hindsight is 20/20, but no one else in the topic said "Quad Jumper", so

 Azreal13 wrote:
One doesn't start building a muscle car by purchasing a lorry.

Sure you do! If you want to mount some really serious engines, then only a lorry will do...

 Azreal13 wrote:
The Falcon is a freighter, if one was looking to flee from TIE Fighters, I'd be looking at the tiny ship with the four enormous engines bolted to it too.

Well I agree, but I'm not sure that sentiment has translated to X-wing. Why is a ship that's composed of literally 80% engine, not classed as having an Engine Upgrade?

Aren't the majority of the Falcon's Han related tinkering to do with the Hyperdrive, rather than the normal engines, which whilst also most likely upgraded (reflected in game by the dial) its still quite the bus, also its quite easy to imagine Plutt spreading disinformation regarding the 'junk' freighter he acquired, as boasting about stealing a legendary starship would draw too much attention, either directly or from other sticky fingered scum.

Also if Rey was all fangirl over "You are THE Han Solo? omg pls selfie wif me" then she probably knew about the Falcon and thus probably had a bias toward her "favourite ship in the world". She probably was eyeing that thing since she was a tater-tot.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
Also if Rey was all fangirl over "You are THE Han Solo? omg pls selfie wif me" then she probably knew about the Falcon and thus probably had a bias toward her "favourite ship in the world". She probably was eyeing that thing since she was a tater-tot.

Except she didn't realise [i]it was the falcon until han told her it was. It does, in fairness, look like garbage. And Unkar Plutt wouldn't have exactly been open about the ship's heritage, if he even knew it himself.

locarno24 wrote:

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
Also if Rey was all fangirl over "You are THE Han Solo? omg pls selfie wif me" then she probably knew about the Falcon and thus probably had a bias toward her "favourite ship in the world". She probably was eyeing that thing since she was a tater-tot.

Except she didn't realise [i]it was the falcon until han told her it was. It does, in fairness, look like garbage. And Unkar Plutt wouldn't have exactly been open about the ship's heritage, if he even knew it himself.

Of course she didn't know it was the falcon, that is obvious. What I said was that she knew about the falcon and thus she would have a bias toward her favourite ship, the YT-1300, since the Falcon was a YT-1300.

If that isn't clear, I'll make an analogy. I am a boy in a fantasy world and I read a book that had Smaug from Lord of the Rings in it which made me really like dragons. Later I see a dragon for sale, so I buy it because I liked Smaug so much. Dragonling =/= Smaug but I still wanted it.

That's not a very good analogy.

It's more "I like black horses. I'm in desperate need to get a long way away from where I am, and fast. I see two horses, a black one and a bay. The black one is clearly much older, appears to be lame, and is in poor condition, while the bay is youthful, with a glossy coat and is clearly ready for a run."

So I choose the bay, because despite any preference I might have for black horses, on first inspection it would be a stupid idea to choose the black one given my current situation.

The biggest problem with the slicer tools IMNSHO is that it doesn't just nerf PTL, it potentially nerfs everything that has a mechanic that requires stress (especially on low hull ships).

There are a lot of cool mechanics that also require taking stress (daredevil, lightning reflexes, rage, etc)... and probably the most important one is the k-turn and s-loop on most ships. If having to make a red maneuver not only means that you lose your actions but can open you to damage, I'd say it's going to make ships that already have white k- or s- moves even more powerful (cough, Brobots, cough jumpmasters and, yes, Defender... though the Defender is likely expensive enough to not be that affected).

And that's going to come at the expense of basic ships ... not good (again, IMNSHO).

If the slicer was R1, I think it'd be a lot less of a problem... powerful, but not necessarily broken... well that and get rid of the skipping shields part too.

But the better way, I think, is to errata PTL to unique or maybe increase the points cost to 4 or even 5 (and as someone else mentioned, make Palpatine epic-only).

I do agree that PTL is probably too common and could use some toning down but the slicer (at ONE POINT?!?!?!!!) is too much.

 Azreal13 wrote:
That's not a very good analogy.

It's more "I like black horses. I'm in desperate need to get a long way away from where I am, and fast. I see two horses, a black one and a bay. The black one is clearly much older, appears to be lame, and is in poor condition, while the bay is youthful, with a glossy coat and is clearly ready for a run."

So I choose the bay, because despite any preference I might have for black horses, on first inspection it would be a stupid idea to choose the black one given my current situation.

But then the black one turns out to be Black Beauty...

 Stormonu wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
That's not a very good analogy.

It's more "I like black horses. I'm in desperate need to get a long way away from where I am, and fast. I see two horses, a black one and a bay. The black one is clearly much older, appears to be lame, and is in poor condition, while the bay is youthful, with a glossy coat and is clearly ready for a run."

So I choose the bay, because despite any preference I might have for black horses, on first inspection it would be a stupid idea to choose the black one given my current situation.

But then the black one turns out to be Black Beauty...

What's funny is that I thought his Analogy was going to touch on Black Beauty. Much love is expressed to you for sharing a simple thought.