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So how would you all feel about if Deathwing Knights, if running the formation that granted take the fight to the enemy special rule, applied to DW knights, but instead of shooting, they got to charge.

The Take the fight to the enemy special rule lets Terminators deep strike, then move and shoot, or shoot and move in the shooting phase they arrive in. However with knights, being a melee only unit, they can only move in and stand there.

Would giving them the ability to charge be to much?

 Backspacehacker wrote:
So how would you all feel about if Deathwing Knights, if running the formation that granted take the fight to the enemy special rule, applied to DW knights, but instead of shooting, they got to charge.

The Take the fight to the enemy special rule lets Terminators deep strike, then move and shoot, or shoot and move in the shooting phase they arrive in. However with knights, being a melee only unit, they can only move in and stand there.

Would giving them the ability to charge be to much?

I feel that Dark Angels are already relatively strong (or at least on par) when compared with their Vanilla counterparts are strong enough. That being said: I am OK with the idea of purely melee units (i.e. units that are only capable of melee combat) being able to Deep Strike and then Assault in the same turn, but there needs to be some sort of draw back. What sort of draw back? I have no idea.

No charge attack bonus?

Charging out of Deep Strike is very strong, and there's a reason GW hasn't put this ability on too many other things in the game so far. I love the idea, but really don't see it ever happening. A decent drawback might be having the unit scatter 4D6, but that almost defeats the purpose.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Charging out of Deep Strike is very strong, and there's a reason GW hasn't put this ability on too many other things in the game so far. I love the idea, but really don't see it ever happening. A decent drawback might be having the unit scatter 4D6, but that almost defeats the purpose.

I had a bit of a think about this, and things like "Being Disallowed to Use Psykic Abilities in the Same Turn" (e.g. Librarians in Terminator Armour), "Mandatory Scatter and/or Minimum Scatter Distance" (e.g. Min. Scatter 6" + D6"), "Charge Distance Penalties", "Cannot Charge Units Who Cannot Fire Overwatch Against Them", etc etc etc. But I have no idea how balanced such ideas would be.

From what I can gather, the general consensus I tend to see follows along the lines of one (or both) of the following:

(1) It tends to be too powerful (regardless of the drawbacks);

(2) There tends to not be a blanket set of drawbacks that balances this out (at least not so far).

Assault is by and large a very weak part of the game as is. Shooting is where 7th ed is at. I see no reason why everyone should not be allowed to assault during all the instances where they are currently not allowed. Charge when disembarking. Charge when you deep strike. Charge when you infiltrate. Charge if you run. Melee only units should absolutely be able to run during shooting and charge during assault. Not being able to is ridiculous.

I could see the OPness of it being that well, you can no lock some one in combat almost anywere on the board.

I figure it would not be to far fetched to have knights be able to assault seeing as how Dreads can do it now, at least the BA one can.

What's strong about assault is two things: the Locked In Combat mechanic and Sweeping Advance. If you can deep strike and charge in the same turn, it's quite possible with some clever reserve trickery to tie up most of an opponent's army in one fell swoop.

As something specific to Deathwing Knights, I'd probably be OK with it. They're melee Terminators, which is a pretty weak combo right now. Dark Angels overall are fairly strong, but they rely - in practice - mostly on MSU and effective shooting.

As far as a reasonable drawback, I might say that losing the usual charge bonuses and swinging at I1 might be about right.

jade_angel wrote:
What's strong about assault is two things: the Locked In Combat mechanic and Sweeping Advance. If you can deep strike and charge in the same turn, it's quite possible with some clever reserve trickery to tie up most of an opponent's army in one fell swoop.

As something specific to Deathwing Knights, I'd probably be OK with it. They're melee Terminators, which is a pretty weak combo right now. Dark Angels overall are fairly strong, but they rely - in practice - mostly on MSU and effective shooting.

As far as a reasonable drawback, I might say that losing the usual charge bonuses and swinging at I1 might be about right.

well terms cant make sweeping advances so

True, they can't, though I was referring to the general reasons why assaulting out of Deep Strike is strong. So, actually, I'd have less issue with Terminators doing it than with, say, Vanguard Vets or - for another faction - say, Triarch Pretorians.