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Trying some Ironwing out with this list.

HQ:
Praetor
- Art Armor
- Paragon Blade
- Plasma Pistol
- Iron Halo, Digital Weapon, Master Crafted, Melta Bomb

Command Squad
- 5 Marines w/ Power Weapons

Centurion
- Chaplain
- Art Armor
- Calibanite Blade, Plasma Pistol
- Refractor Field, Melta Bomb

Elite:

Terminators x 5
2 Power Swords, 1 Power Fist, 1 Chain Fist, Sgt Calibanite Blade
Land Raider Phobos

Troops:

Tactical Squad
10 Marines extra CCW
Sgt - Art Armor, Calibanite Blade, Plasma Pistol
Rhino

Tactical Squad
10 Marines extra CCW
Sgt - Art Armor, Combi Melta, Calibanite Blade
Rhino

Fast Attack:

5 Jetbikes
4 HB's, 1 PC, Acid Rounds
Sgt Calibanite Blade

Heavy Support

Land Raider Squadron
Land Raider Phobos
Land Raider Phobos

Vindicator

Predator Squadron
Predator Executioner w/ Lascannons
Predator Executioner w/ Lascannons
Predator w/ HB's
All w/ Machine Spirit

Lord of War:

Knight Paladin

Did you forget to put down the Rhino for Tac Squad 2?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Did you forget to put down the Rhino for Tac Squad 2?

I did.

Ok.

So I assume the +1 WS for the Vets is since as the "Honor Guard" of the HQ choice you are expecting them to go up against the Palatine Blades of the EC player?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Ok.

So I assume the +1 WS for the Vets is since as the "Honor Guard" of the HQ choice you are expecting them to go up against the Palatine Blades of the EC player?

Yeah, that and sonic shriekers. Just gimps the DA special rule. So getting a WS 5 will hopefully help against that.

Yeah that's gonna put you in a bit of a spot, luckily though your short range shooting should put them in somewhat of a bind before hand. Also, luckily for the most part (unless its the 3rd Company RoW) only Centurions and up will have the Shriekers.

I'm pretty sure this list is illegal for Ironwing. At least half the units in the army must be vehicles with the tank type.

I count 7 tanks (3 preds, 2 rhinos, 2 LR phobos) and 10 non-tank units (3 characters, Termies, Vets, 2 Dreads, Bikes and 2 tac squads).

So, unless I'm missing something, this will have to be re-worked to get those rites of war.

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'm pretty sure this list is illegal for Ironwing. At least half the units in the army must be vehicles with the tank type.

I count 7 tanks (3 preds, 2 rhinos, 2 LR phobos) and 10 non-tank units (3 characters, Termies, Vets, 2 Dreads, Bikes and 2 tac squads).

So, unless I'm missing something, this will have to be re-worked to get those rites of war.

Yeah, the characters throw it off, but I'm trying to figure out how to make the list "legal" if half the units are tanks, especially since every "infantry" has to be in a vehicle. Especially with just 3 HS slots. A squadron of Predators, a squadron of Land Raiders (moved the Termie LR to the HS squadron, for the BS bonus). That leaves room for one more unit of tanks, but filling enough points is the issue. I can throw in a Vindicator, and drop the Deredeo, and Primus or Chaplain, but that leaves me with about 300 points to fill, and I'm tapped out on tanks.

Maybe I should make the vet squad a command squad for the Praetor, and drop one of the Consuls.

 djones520 wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'm pretty sure this list is illegal for Ironwing. At least half the units in the army must be vehicles with the tank type.

I count 7 tanks (3 preds, 2 rhinos, 2 LR phobos) and 10 non-tank units (3 characters, Termies, Vets, 2 Dreads, Bikes and 2 tac squads).

So, unless I'm missing something, this will have to be re-worked to get those rites of war.

Yeah, the characters throw it off, but I'm trying to figure out how to make the list "legal" if half the units are tanks, especially since every "infantry" has to be in a vehicle. Especially with just 3 HS slots. A squadron of Predators, a squadron of Land Raiders (moved the Termie LR to the HS squadron, for the BS bonus). That leaves room for one more unit of tanks, but filling enough points is the issue. I can throw in a Vindicator, and drop the Deredeo, and Primus or Chaplain, but that leaves me with about 300 points to fill, and I'm tapped out on tanks.

Maybe I should make the vet squad a command squad for the Praetor, and drop one of the Consuls.

It's super restrictive, that's for sure.

Since Command Squads can operate independently, I'm fairly certain they just count as another unit. ("They take up a single Force Organisation chart choice with that Praetor, but do not have to be deployed with them and are treated as a separate unit during the game. (AODAL p27)"

You may not have enough stuff for 3000 points of Ironwing at your disposal. Seems like a Rite of War you'd have to buy towards. Plus, the more points, the harder it becomes.

I'm thinking at higher points most people will be forced to take a command Rhino and a super-heavy tank, just to make the darn thing work.

Revamped it. Cut the Dreads, and Primus Medic, and gave the Praetor a Command Squad instead of the Veteran Squad.

Added a Vindicator, and a Knight Paladin to balance the points out. Should be 8 to 8 now.

 djones520 wrote:
Revamped it. Cut the Dreads, and Primus Medic, and gave the Praetor a Command Squad instead of the Veteran Squad.

Added a Vindicator, and a Knight Paladin to balance the points out. Should be 8 to 8 now.

Yup. Looks good to me!

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'm pretty sure this list is illegal for Ironwing. At least half the units in the army must be vehicles with the tank type.

I count 7 tanks (3 preds, 2 rhinos, 2 LR phobos) and 10 non-tank units (3 characters, Termies, Vets, 2 Dreads, Bikes and 2 tac squads).

So, unless I'm missing something, this will have to be re-worked to get those rites of war.

Now that you mention It might even be even more restricting, as the Predators and Land Raiders come in a Unit (Squadron) of 3, so all 3 vehicles would be one unit.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'm pretty sure this list is illegal for Ironwing. At least half the units in the army must be vehicles with the tank type.

I count 7 tanks (3 preds, 2 rhinos, 2 LR phobos) and 10 non-tank units (3 characters, Termies, Vets, 2 Dreads, Bikes and 2 tac squads).

So, unless I'm missing something, this will have to be re-worked to get those rites of war.

Now that you mention It might even be even more restricting, as the Predators and Land Raiders come in a Unit (Squadron) of 3, so all 3 vehicles would be one unit.

Yeah. That worries me too. Forgeworld needs to FAQ it. I think the intention is to have at least half tank "models," but RAW, squadrons screw it up. I think most reasonable opponents would let each tank count whether it's in a squadron or not. Definitely something to discuss before the game.

If that is the case, Ironwing would simply be impossible to play at higher point levels.

 djones520 wrote:
If that is the case, Ironwing would simply be impossible to play at higher point levels.

I agree. I really think the intent was tank models and I doubt you'd get much of an argument for using that line of logic. But it would be nice to get black and white clarification from Forgeworld.

Well Dedicated Transports would count towards the number of Tank "units". But at higher points you could also throw in Super Heavy Tanks. But yeah I think it counts individual tanks, not the whole Squadron. Just something to keep an eye out for.

hmm didn't notice the issue with characters as separate units before, as I run a 1-1 basis on my tanks and units, ive been taking 2 HQ and termies in a Spartan, but only considering it as one unit, I'm gonna speak to my mates and see how we can resolve this, it may turn out that we just ignore the issue though.

Honestly I would allow the HQs joined to Termies be 1 unit for the purpose of this.

I think it works the way its intended. Ironwing are suppose to be predominantly be a mechanized army, a mix of tanks and tanks transporting infantry. Fictionally the Iron Wing is one of the organizational protocols created at the initial founding of the legions when the Emperor was first trying to determine how best to organize the Legions. It in a sense represents something imperfect and inflexible, something the Legions largely moved away from.

In building an army around this, consider that troops being the starting point of the army, when given dedicated transports gives you tanks vs. others at 1:1. Next you max out your Heavy Support choices for tanks. You must take your Praetor for access to the Rite of War. This effectively gives you a starting point where by you can choose up to 2 non-tank or un-transported units across the entire army.

Beyond this you can boost the number of non-tanks that are permissible by taking a Damocles command Rhino as an HQ or a Super Heavy tank as a Lord of War.

As for this army's large game performance, keep in mind that the rules as written they intend you to use one Detachment and thus one FOC for ever 2000pts being played, but gamers have universally chosen to disregard this. They also intend you to on occasion use the onslaught and mission specific FOC's that have more Heavy Support slots, but again its something universally avoided by the community. So its difficult to judge things when we've painted ourselves into a corner by excluding the use of certain rules.

That said this list is illegal for another reason. Among the different Knights only the Cerastus Knights are available as Lords of War choices for the Legion Astartes. SO the Paladin is a no-no, in addition to being a strange choice for someone pursuing a predominantly tank army.

Might want to recheck your book.

War Machine Detachment: 1-2 super heavy vehicles of the same unit type, each with a Hull Points value of 8 or less, and each chosen either from the specific army list for the Primary Deatachment, the Questoris Knights army list found in the Crusade Imperialis army list...

The Knight Paladin is a part of the Questoris Knights list. Couldn't understand why a 30' tall walking engine of death wouldn't fit in with a mechanized army...

Fair enough... I'm guessing thats from the updated book. Still waiting for mine.

As for why it "wouldn't fit in with a mechanized army..." Its because mechanized warfare means tank warfare. RoW are suppose to dictate the spirit of the army and while you can ultimately do whatever you like, to not acknowledge that spirit and your deviation is certainly moving in the direction of gamey.This is a RoW that embraces that meaning of tank army with mechanized infantry to its fullest, so a non-tank certainly deviates from the spirit of it.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Fair enough... I'm guessing thats from the updated book. Still waiting for mine.

As for why it "wouldn't fit in with a mechanized army..." Its because mechanized warfare means tank warfare. RoW are suppose to dictate the spirit of the army and while you can ultimately do whatever you like, to not acknowledge that spirit and your deviation is certainly moving in the direction of gamey.This is a RoW that embraces that meaning of tank army with mechanized infantry to its fullest, so a non-tank certainly deviates from the spirit of it.

id have to disagree slightly with this, I have taken a knight lancer (clearly the most dark angel knight!), this is basically my heavy hitter to support my Ironwing, its a breakthrough force, theme wise its just a mechanised force with the knight sent to support the breakthrough.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Fair enough... I'm guessing thats from the updated book. Still waiting for mine.

As for why it "wouldn't fit in with a mechanized army..." Its because mechanized warfare means tank warfare. RoW are suppose to dictate the spirit of the army and while you can ultimately do whatever you like, to not acknowledge that spirit and your deviation is certainly moving in the direction of gamey.This is a RoW that embraces that meaning of tank army with mechanized infantry to its fullest, so a non-tank certainly deviates from the spirit of it.

Except it also has special benefits for Dreadnoughts.