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Well, so much for the land of Magna Carter, Glorious revolution, and the inspiration for the American constitution...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/14/police-to-hire-law-firms-to-tackle-cyber-criminals-in-radical-pilot-project

This quotation pretty much sums up modern Britain these days:

Under the shakeup being piloted, a law firm will pursue the suspect in the civil courts before any conviction and possibly even without a criminal charge. The burden of proof is lower in civil courts, and they will only have to show that the suspect stole the money on the balance of probabilities.

The creeping privatization that has been a disaster in the UK, the gradual erosion of our birthright i.e our civil rights and freedoms, is about to get worse.

Finally, I was wondering if the more tech savvy dakka members could address a point? In the comments section of that article, somebody made the point that a lot of innocent people will get hassle from big entertainment companies going after them for downloading stuff, because their IP address turned up in some general sweep. Is this a real danger? Corporate bullying, if this scheme comes to pass?

Oh look, the UK has learned about government-sanctioned theft from the US. You can look forward to having all of the cash in your wallet seized if you're pulled over for a minor traffic offense because of course nobody carries cash unless they're going to do something illegal with it. And then the police will get to use all the money they steal seize to buy some really cool toys from the military, giving them incentive to keep doing it. Because really, why respect the concept of justice when you can buy some really cool guns and play real-life Call of Duty?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Finally, I was wondering if the more tech savvy dakka members could address a point? In the comments section of that article, somebody made the point that a lot of innocent people will get hassle from big entertainment companies going after them for downloading stuff, because their IP address turned up in some general sweep. Is this a real danger? Corporate bullying, if this scheme comes to pass?

It depends. Stuff like that happened in the US (90 year olds who don't even own computers being sued for downloading music, etc) because the movie and music industry went with a plan of "sue everyone for millions, offer to settle out of court for a few thousand dollars". Guilt or innocence didn't matter at all because the cost of fighting the lawsuit was more than the cost to settle out of court. They just named you as a target an extorted their money, and IIRC when cases did go to court the victims either won or had the case quietly dropped. However this resulted in massive amounts of bad publicity and they stopped doing it.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Finally, I was wondering if the more tech savvy dakka members could address a point? In the comments section of that article, somebody made the point that a lot of innocent people will get hassle from big entertainment companies going after them for downloading stuff, because their IP address turned up in some general sweep. Is this a real danger?

yes

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Corporate bullying, if this scheme comes to pass?

yes

 Peregrine wrote:
Oh look, the UK has learned about government-sanctioned theft from the US. You can look forward to having all of the cash in your wallet seized if you're pulled over for a minor traffic offense because of course nobody carries cash unless they're going to do something illegal with it. And then the police will get to use all the money they steal seize to buy some really cool toys from the military, giving them incentive to keep doing it. Because really, why respect the concept of justice when you can buy some really cool guns and play real-life Call of Duty?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Finally, I was wondering if the more tech savvy dakka members could address a point? In the comments section of that article, somebody made the point that a lot of innocent people will get hassle from big entertainment companies going after them for downloading stuff, because their IP address turned up in some general sweep. Is this a real danger? Corporate bullying, if this scheme comes to pass?

It depends. Stuff like that happened in the US (90 year olds who don't even own computers being sued for downloading music, etc) because the movie and music industry went with a plan of "sue everyone for millions, offer to settle out of court for a few thousand dollars". Guilt or innocence didn't matter at all because the cost of fighting the lawsuit was more than the cost to settle out of court. They just named you as a target an extorted their money, and IIRC when cases did go to court the victims either won or had the case quietly dropped. However this resulted in massive amounts of bad publicity and they stopped doing it.

I'd be surprised if you knew this, but here in the UK, our version of your IRS (HMRC) has the ability to take money out people's bank accounts if they're suspected of tax evasion, and the burden of proof is pretty low on that as well.

With each passing year, living on this island gets worse and worse...

It's no surprise that it's a Conservative government pushing this. If it's not nailed down, they'll sell it. Privatization has been a disaster in the UK, and yet, people still blindly vote for the Conservatives, and here we are with this. Everything they touch turns to dust, and this will be no different...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Finally, I was wondering if the more tech savvy dakka members could address a point? In the comments section of that article, somebody made the point that a lot of innocent people will get hassle from big entertainment companies going after them for downloading stuff, because their IP address turned up in some general sweep. Is this a real danger?

yes

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Corporate bullying, if this scheme comes to pass?

yes

Thanks for cheering up my Monday morning!

I need to lie down in a darkened room...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was going to remark that I wished the UK had its own version of the 4th amendment, but sadly, I remembered that even in the USA, the 4th amendment seems to be non-existent these days

The UK has had Prenda Law type issues a couple of times at least

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34842863

and further back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16616803

Ultimately these things are very bad publicity for whoever is selling the IP addresses, grassing up users to bottom feeding lawyers seems to be viewed negatively by potential customers for some reason.

Also, re the OP, I'm sure 'Magna Carter' is a typo but please correct, it burns

 Darkjim wrote:
The UK has had Prenda Law type issues a couple of times at least

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-34842863

and further back

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16616803

Ultimately these things are very bad publicity for whoever is selling the IP addresses, grassing up users to bottom feeding lawyers seems to be viewed negatively by potential customers for some reason.

Also, re the OP, I'm sure 'Magna Carter' is a typo but please correct, it burns

Normally, I would change the typo, but it's a point of principal. Google Chrome's auto-correct won't fix it, so why should I?

I just keep imagining a new TV show that is set in the 13th century but with the Sweeney in it.

Can you hurry getting out of the EU so you don't give ideas to our own politicians ?

 Darkjim wrote:
I just keep imagining a new TV show that is set in the 13th century but with the Sweeney in it.

Which I would probably watch

I know I've made a howler with the spelling, but I'm annoyed that google doesn't even recognise an event of such historical importance and thus refused to recognise Carta...

I tell you. it's a subtle 1984 style plot to erase any knowledge of past historical freedoms...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LethalShade wrote:
Can you hurry getting out of the EU so you don't give ideas to our own politicians ?

Le Pen seems to be an admire of the UK these days, so even a BREXIT won't help the French people

Copyright violation used to be purely a civil offence. It was things like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act that started to ram a load of criminal laws into IP's bottom, thus conflating teenage mixtapes with outright theft.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Copyright violation used to be purely a civil offence. It was things like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act that started to ram a load of criminal laws into IP's bottom, thus conflating teenage mixtapes with outright theft.

It's a slippery slop that gets more slippery with each passing year.

We've got the taxman being able to dip into our bank accounts, councils using anti-terror laws to spy on our wheelie bins, and now this...

Britain is not a pleasent place to live in these days...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Copyright violation used to be purely a civil offence. It was things like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act that started to ram a load of criminal laws into IP's bottom, thus conflating teenage mixtapes with outright theft.

It's a slippery slop that gets more slippery with each passing year.

We've got the taxman being able to dip into our bank accounts, councils using anti-terror laws to spy on our wheelie bins, and now this...

Britain is not a pleasent place to live in these days...

My favourite kind of slop, hate it when it is sticky.

Not having a good thread for typos here DINLT

This is just the kind of stuff I expected when Theresa May became PM. I think we're going to see a lot more of it to come.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Copyright violation used to be purely a civil offence. It was things like the Digital Millenium Copyright Act that started to ram a load of criminal laws into IP's bottom, thus conflating teenage mixtapes with outright theft.

It's a slippery slop that gets more slippery with each passing year.

We've got the taxman being able to dip into our bank accounts, councils using anti-terror laws to spy on our wheelie bins, and now this...

Britain is not a pleasent place to live in these days...

My favourite kind of slop, hate it when it is sticky.

Not having a good thread for typos here DINLT

This is just the kind of stuff I expected when Theresa May became PM. I think we're going to see a lot more of it to come.

Yeah, should have expected this from May...

But it's August. Yet another DINLT typo.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
But it's August. Yet another DINLT typo.

Nobody likes a smart-ass

Although, if anything does go wrong, the May Day headline is an easy one

Back OT, having had dealings in the past with civil courts, I can testify that they couldn't organise a funeral in a graveyard, so the potential for miscarriages of justice here, are unlimitless...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
But it's August. Yet another DINLT typo.

Nobody likes a smart-ass

Although, if anything does go wrong, the May Day headline is an easy one

Back OT, having had dealings in the past with civil courts, I can testify that they couldn't organise a funeral in a graveyard, so the potential for miscarriages of justice here, are unlimitless...

Unlimitless? So the opposite of limitless? Isn't that limited? Limited potential for miscarriages of justice seems okay

I don't have any experience of the civil courts at the moment. Though we'll see what happens when I hear about my deposit from my uni accommodation, as that may change my experience

The problem with this strategy is that companies will go after what they think will make the most profit. You can go after the multimillionaire but he will have a hoard of top market lawyers defending him so there is a risk they will lose.

Instead they are likely to target those that are unable financially to defend themselves and will have the choice of having to pay for legal representation that you may still lose and then have to pay all costs (without the same potential support you would get at a criminal trial) or pay an agreed sum for an out of court settlement.

The out of court settlement would also need to be considered for the larger cases. What happens if the Police give up, let a company get on with it and then they agree an out of court settlement for a third of the amount (with much of this going to the legal firm). That's a win-win then for both the potential criminal and the legal firm.

Doing things like this for profit is dangerous as the firms do what is then their best interest not the publics (which is what the Police are meant to do).