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So I am a long time Eldar & Daemons player. I've played both armies since 5th ed.
Currently Eldar are considered 40K: Easy mode and I am looking for a challenge that still fits my play style.

Obviously by my army choices, I prefer fast armies (Daemons having the fastest CC units in the game)
I have played around with DE quite a bit, even having an full DE army back in 5th ed that was painted and themed around my Eldar army at the time. When allies became a thing, I was ecstatic because I already had a themed ally list ready to go. Over the years, as models became shelfed, sold, or replaced with new plasctics, etc, my DE collection has dwindled down to less than a 1500pt army that is mainly Venom Spam w/ Scourges, a Reaver unit and a Razorwing. And all of those models have been converted to double as Vypers, Swooping Hawks, Warlock bikes and a Crimson Hunter respectively.

So now that Harlies have some new rules to play with, I have been giving them some real thought. They play like Daemons (fast CC with 5++) with Eldar trickery, which seems right up my alley, but I just can't get a list that I like (mainly due to the stupid VoidWeaver tax on all the formations).
So I guess my question is: Which army should I try out for a bit of a challenge for casual-competitive games?
-Build up my DE again
-Start a Harlie army (which I have at least 2 Troupes, a Shadowseer, DJ & Solitare already)
- Or a good mix of both, DE Venom Spam with a few Harlie formations

Which of those 3 options would be challenging, but competitive for casual games?

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DE have some strong units/formations if you don't mind using Covens stuff. You can even have a relatively fast melee unit in the Grotesquerie, if you get some raiders for them to get a nice turn 2 charge off. If you don't want to use them, venom and reaver spam is pretty decent, just back it up with some lance ravagers

Otherwise, a good combination of the two can work really well, as freakshow lists can be quite strong, and the Cast of Players and Hero's Path formations are amazing allies.

You can get some good Harlequin only lists, but they will always have some big weaknesses, which can be partially overcome by psychic powers.

Both, definitely. I've found Freakshows endlessly engrossing.

If I am to use the Coven formations, then Grotesquerie is something I might consider, but definitely a Dark Artisan.

Does a Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie, Cast of Players and a Venom-spam CAD fit in 1850?

You'll probably be a little light on venoms, but I think so.

 Galef wrote:
If I am to use the Coven formations, then Grotesquerie is something I might consider, but definitely a Dark Artisan.

Does a Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie, Cast of Players and a Venom-spam CAD fit in 1850?

Yes it is

Cast of Players
Death Jester
Shadowseer Mastery Level 2, The Mask of Secrets
Troupe(no upgrades)

Dark Artisan
Cronos
Haemonculus Webway portal
Talos

Grotesquerie
Grotesques
Aberration [Scissorhand]
2 mooks
Raider Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails
Grotesques
Aberration [Scissorhand]
2 mooks
Raider Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails
Haemonculus

DEldar CAD
Succubus Archite glaive, The Armour of Misery

6XWarriors with venoms


You'll have some spare points to sprinkle around there if you want

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:

 Galef wrote:
If I am to use the Coven formations, then Grotesquerie is something I might consider, but definitely a Dark Artisan.

Does a Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie, Cast of Players and a Venom-spam CAD fit in 1850?

Yes it is

Cast of Players
Death Jester
Shadowseer Mastery Level 2, The Mask of Secrets
Troupe(no upgrades)

Dark Artisan
Cronos
Haemonculus Webway portal
Talos

Grotesquerie
Grotesques
Aberration [Scissorhand]
2 mooks
Raider Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails
Grotesques
Aberration [Scissorhand]
2 mooks
Raider Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails
Haemonculus

DEldar CAD
Succubus Archite glaive, The Armour of Misery

6XWarriors with venoms


You'll have some spare points to sprinkle around there if you want

Wow, OK. I only have 4 Venoms, so that gets me even more points. I was thinking of a Max Troupe for the Cast of Players (with some Kisses mixed in) and included the new DJ that has Shroud. Add the Succubus and Mask Shadowseer for a nice -4LD (-5 if near a Coven unit). This unit could run up behind cover/use the Grot Raiders as cover.
If I have points left, I'll try to add some Scourges to pop transports.

-

The Succubus would be better run with the unit of grots without a haemy, due to their very low LD. Having them pinned turn 1 due to a blown up transport would be really bad.

The shrouded DJ would be a great investment for the formation. 5 points to give the unit a 3+ cover save in terrain is amazing!
If you get invisibility for them too then they're basically untouchable.

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The Succubus would be better run with the unit of grots without a haemy, due to their very low LD. Having them pinned turn 1 due to a blown up transport would be really bad.

The shrouded DJ would be a great investment for the formation. 5 points to give the unit a 3+ cover save in terrain is amazing!
If you get invisibility for them too then they're basically untouchable.

So have the Succubus ride with the Grots turn 1 to prevent getting Pinned, but then have her join the Harlies turn 2.
That could also give the Harlies a 3" boost to their charge distance as the Succubus will be closer to the enemy and by joining the Harlies, gives them 2" coherency + 1" base. Succubus can LOS any overwatch, or just have the Grots charge first.

-

 Galef wrote:

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The Succubus would be better run with the unit of grots without a haemy, due to their very low LD. Having them pinned turn 1 due to a blown up transport would be really bad.

The shrouded DJ would be a great investment for the formation. 5 points to give the unit a 3+ cover save in terrain is amazing!
If you get invisibility for them too then they're basically untouchable.

So have the Succubus ride with the Grots turn 1 to prevent getting Pinned, but then have her join the Harlies turn 2.
That could also give the Harlies a 3" boost to their charge distance as the Succubus will be closer to the enemy and by joining the Harlies, gives them 2" coherency + 1" base. Succubus can LOS any overwatch, or just have the Grots charge first.

-

That could work. Best to try and pin the unit with the hallucinogenic grenade launcher first too.
That type of list will give you lots of big threats in the enemies army really fast, which is always fun!

you'll DE better with just mono DE than including Harlequins to the mix...

Harlies are pretty strong for casual games. I've had great results with mono harlequins. If you want challenge, play a witch cult.

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The Succubus would be better run with the unit of grots without a haemy, due to their very low LD. Having them pinned turn 1 due to a blown up transport would be really bad.

The shrouded DJ would be a great investment for the formation. 5 points to give the unit a 3+ cover save in terrain is amazing!
If you get invisibility for them too then they're basically untouchable.

Pinned Grotesques from a Grotesquerie on turn 1 don't matter as they're Fearless turn 2 so get back up and carry on without the effects of pinning. Thats probably the biggest thing about the Covens book, the Grotesques gain Fearless so fast that the downside of Ld3/4 is almost negated.

 Imateria wrote:

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
The Succubus would be better run with the unit of grots without a haemy, due to their very low LD. Having them pinned turn 1 due to a blown up transport would be really bad.

The shrouded DJ would be a great investment for the formation. 5 points to give the unit a 3+ cover save in terrain is amazing!
If you get invisibility for them too then they're basically untouchable.

Pinned Grotesques from a Grotesquerie on turn 1 don't matter as they're Fearless turn 2 so get back up and carry on without the effects of pinning. Thats probably the biggest thing about the Covens book, the Grotesques gain Fearless so fast that the downside of Ld3/4 is almost negated.

Ah, forgot about that.
Man, the Coven's book is just awesome isn't it?

God, yes.

They don't like psy shreiks and dominates though.

Depends on how your group runs it. I've never seen a TO rule that the majority ld applies for Shriek instead of the highest.

The DE model range is amazing. So from an aesthetically pleasing standpoint, get some of the new-ish DE plastics. There's lots of interchangable parts. All of the eldar that hang on the side of the skimmers can be traded around, as well as simpler things like head swaps. Harlies seem to be looked upon as fun but not broken, so maybe a few of them to ally with a DE army? I swear, if the DE had a better codex, I'd be running them. I already run Chaos Marines, though, and I can't take another heart break.

Munga wrote:
The DE model range is amazing. So from an aesthetically pleasing standpoint, get some of the new-ish DE plastics. There's lots of interchangable parts. All of the eldar that hang on the side of the skimmers can be traded around, as well as simpler things like head swaps. Harlies seem to be looked upon as fun but not broken, so maybe a few of them to ally with a DE army? I swear, if the DE had a better codex, I'd be running them. I already run Chaos Marines, though, and I can't take another heart break.

Well they'd be a guaranteed step up from Chaos Marines at least.