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Hey everyone,

I have seen a lot of posts about peoples dreams of GW releasing a plastic sisters of battle line. It's something I would definitely sink a lot of money into much to the frustration of my fiancé.

I was wondering though what exactly GW are doing if anything about this demand because in my mind there appears to be a very high demand for a (comparatively) affordable sisters line. I understand that GW still possibly has a lot of metal models they want to shift before releasing plastic sets but it doesn't appear to me to make any kind of business sense to kill a potential money maker on the basis of having old stock you can't shift. Run it down into the accounts with depreciation.... By the Emprah they must have had those models long enough and bring a new range out and they're sure to see a good return.

Anyone else agree?

If GW are actually making some headway I'd like to know and if not why?
And if not what can we realistically do to change that?

Hi. Here's the elephant in the room. People dream about plastic sisters. My opinion is that GW are doing nothing about those dreams, because that's what they are: dreams. Why put effort into (waits for the Immolater flame) a minority army, when the same effort on Space Marines will bring in x times the revenue?

Don't get me wrong: I'd like to see more sisters. In 20 mumble mumble years of gaming I've seen precisely 1 sisters army. But, like any other company, you go where the money is, not where it might be. Sorry - but - don't stop dreaming!

stroller wrote:
Hi. Here's the elephant in the room. People dream about plastic sisters. My opinion is that GW are doing nothing about those dreams, because that's what they are: dreams. Why put effort into (waits for the Immolater flame) a minority army, when the same effort on Space Marines will bring in x times the revenue?

Don't get me wrong: I'd like to see more sisters. In 20 mumble mumble years of gaming I've seen precisely 1 sisters army. But, like any other company, you go where the money is, not where it might be. Sorry - but - don't stop dreaming!

Abolsutely agree, but then Dark Eldar were in exactly the same position for a long time - very much a 'minority' army with little support. Then GW created a market by totally reworking the whole faction and releasing them with a new Codex. Old Dark Eldar players got in on the action, but I imagine the majority of DE players around then came to DE because of the new release.

I agree that it's easier to just go with reliable markets like Space Marines, but I do think GW have the power to do the same thing to Sisters - it's just a lot more work!

It's been proven through the previous range that they didnt sell very well.
What 16 year old boy, the target demographic, wants to play with girls?
Not the type who like warhammers is the answer.
For the veterans I feel it's a 'grass is greener on the other side' kind of deal. It's an aspirational hobby and we aspire to what we can't get. When it's finally within reach we get bored or set the bar higher.
How many Genestealer Cult and full plastic Storm Trooper armies have we seen since the release? Not many.
Maybe that's a bad rules issue as Ad Mech seem to be doing well.

GW is stupid, plain and simple. Or if you don`t like the term "stupid" then maybe you can also call it a lack of information on their side.

The one excuse they always told people were that plastic sisters wouldn`t be possible because of the complexity of the model. Well that is total bulls.... and everyone knows it by now. Not only have there been real plastic sisters from a russian manufacturer, no but some alternatives like the Sci-Fi Sisters from Raging Heroes also prove that statement to be wrong.

On top of that Raging Heroes got a lot of money with their Kickstarters and they even stated in one of their recent posts that the Sci-Fi sisters are right now the biggest seller, so I can safely assume that many people have pledged that Kickstarter because they no longer wanted to wait for GW to do something about the Sisters.

Which leads me back to point 1. GW thinks that there isn`t a high demand for sisters. I think that is mainly because they only look at their own numbers and that makes sense. No one wants to start a GW army that is currently weak, only in metal, and has such a high price tag that you could think you are paying australian prices. So instead they only do another Space Marine thing, while other companies will gladly take their share of the cake that GW is not interested in.

I'm not sure, when I played as a kid until I was 13/14 sisters were a dream army to me even then. Cost was a major factor then. Now I'm older, having started again, I still can't shake the longing.
I know some children wouldn't want to play with girls but from my own observations, and I might be wrong, the majority of people in the hobby are older than that. And one thing the majority of adult men want to do is play with members of the opposite sex.
Even so I agree a number of people probably do just that and get bored easily.
Question is though what would it take to get GW to actually do something?

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
It's been proven through the previous range that they didnt sell very well.
What 16 year old boy, the target demographic, wants to play with girls?
Not the type who like warhammers is the answer.
For the veterans I feel it's a 'grass is greener on the other side' kind of deal. It's an aspirational hobby and we aspire to what we can't get. When it's finally within reach we get bored or set the bar higher.
How many Genestealer Cult and full plastic Storm Trooper armies have we seen since the release? Not many.
Maybe that's a bad rules issue as Ad Mech seem to be doing well.

I think we would see more genestealer cult armies if they were more widely available with a proper codex. And not allies of convenience with Nids

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
It's been proven through the previous range that they didnt sell very well.
What 16 year old boy, the target demographic, wants to play with girls?

I dunno, the John Blanche artwork in the 3rd ed rulebook made a strong impression on me and the Witch Hunters release seemed quite popular. I think it's more likely that expensive metal kits are just too much of a barrier for younger players or those with less disposable income. The gradual increase in the scale of the average 40k game would only exacerbate this. I can't even begin to imagine the expense of a 1850pts Sisters of Battle army being collected from scratch.

Cheaper, plastic kits for armies more easily available with regular updates are of course going to be more popular, but it's a shame that SoB never even got as far as finecast .

I would hazard a guess that Sales of Sisters at the time of their release were not great enough to prompt more promotion coupled with a studio which was probably lacking in direction when it came to the Soritas

And cry over the pricing all you want but there has been a codex and models available since 1997, If they were iconic enough and buyers were lapping up the models from the off then it stands to reason they would have gotten some plastic love, even taking ques from the original metals - there would be none of this 'can't make the hair, flowing robes' gibberish that spread a while ago.

Not gonna read the thread because I'm assume it's about why don't we have plastic sisters.

Short answer: there is no rea demand for it, so they are not going to make them.

Long answer: GW is a business, if you want them to change you need to show it with your wallet not with crying. You can kick scream and yell from the mountain tops about how you want plastic sisters, but until there is a probable profit to be had, it's not going to happen. Iirc there was a game day were they even showed off plastic sisters they had made. The thing is, they won't start making up until their current stock, the metal ones, are moved out. And even then, they need to be bought out quickly to show there is a demand. When everyone keeps asking for it, but GW still is noticing the sister products they have, why make more? If you want new sisters, you need to buy what's still in stock then and only then will GW start to even consider making plastic models.

If you want new, start buying the old.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Iirc there was a game day were they even showed off plastic sisters they had made. The thing is, they won't start making up until their current stock, the metal ones, are moved out.

You know, I'm used to the argument that GW will release plastic sisters if just enough people are willing to buy the ageing metal ones for a mere twice the price, I'm not used to people taking it seriously, but I've heard it enough not to be surprised when it comes up. But if you're going to claim prototype models have shown up at a games day you're going to have to back that up with photographs or an article or -something-.

Because no, if GW had plastic sisters waiting in the wings but wanted to move the metal stock first, they would not be showing said plastics off. Full stop.

GW released plastic Grey Knights with a complete revamp when they previously occupied the same niche as sisters. They released plastic dark eldar with a complete revamp when people thought they were going to be squatted. They released plastic mechanicum when the entire concept was considered conversion and fandex fodder!

Today they're releasing plastic deathwatch kits. Do you mean to tell me that the old metal deathwatch upgrade sprue sold better than sisters of battle? Or that they're somehow more prolific? I'm the only person at my local GW store who's ever run a deathwatch army, the blueshirts running the store thought I had made them up.

To your point: No, people buying up the stock of $100 battle sister troop boxes will not convince GW to release plastic sisters. It will only convince them that they're not charging enough for the other troop boxes.

We cornered the Forge Wold guys at GenCon and my wife asked about sisters. Sisters of Silence was all they would commit to, but we all know that was going to be part of FW anyway as they are in the next HH book.

She also asked about sisters on bikes. Zipping around, burning the heretics with Flamers and Meltas.

The guy said 'That sounds cool! But it's never going to happen..."

Lame.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Iirc there was a game day were they even showed off plastic sisters they had made. The thing is, they won't start making up until their current stock, the metal ones, are moved out.

You know, I'm used to the argument that GW will release plastic sisters if just enough people are willing to buy the ageing metal ones for a mere twice the price, I'm not used to people taking it seriously, but I've heard it enough not to be surprised when it comes up. But if you're going to claim prototype models have shown up at a games day you're going to have to back that up with photographs or an article or -something-.

Because no, if GW had plastic sisters waiting in the wings but wanted to move the metal stock first, they would not be showing said plastics off. Full stop.

GW released plastic Grey Knights with a complete revamp when they previously occupied the same niche as sisters. They released plastic dark eldar with a complete revamp when people thought they were going to be squatted. They released plastic mechanicum when the entire concept was considered conversion and fandex fodder!

Today they're releasing plastic deathwatch kits. Do you mean to tell me that the old metal deathwatch upgrade sprue sold better than sisters of battle? Or that they're somehow more prolific? I'm the only person at my local GW store who's ever run a deathwatch army, the blueshirts running the store thought I had made them up.

To your point: No, people buying up the stock of $100 battle sister troop boxes will not convince GW to release plastic sisters. It will only convince them that they're not charging enough for the other troop boxes.

That's why I said iirc it could have bee another event and a 3rd party making them, so I would ask that you "pump the breaks."

Secondly yes, they were and are selling more of the deathwatch because here is the thing, like it or not the community loves space marines and loves all flavors of them.

And again unfortunately yes, that's how a business works, there is no real demand for it. Here is the problem we have

People want sisters, aright cool.

People are not buying the metal ones, GW has no reason to make a product not being moved

So what happens? 3rd parties start making sister models

People are going to them, again small numbers in comparison to their other products

GW has even LESS inventive to make sisters because the models they have are not selling, and people are already established with the 3rd party companies

Furthermore, how many sister players do you actual, personally, know and see on the table? Now compare that to people who play flavors of space marines. It's a very small market that is already no buying from GW so why bother?

You might think wel that's just bad practice GE should try and get them back! You are right, but the players are not the egg heads in the marketing departments they don't live in should land, they live in profit land, and the time, energy and money toake a product that is in such low demand and would not sell well is not going to make it past the cutting board.

That's the truth, I'm sorry it's crappy, I'm sorry you are not going to get plastic sisters, but until GW sees actual profit to be had its not going to happen. I would like it! But it's a pipe dream.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

People are not buying the metal ones, GW has no reason to make a product not being moved

Maybe people just don't want to invest a lot of money and time into an undersupported army with expensive metal miniatures that are 12-19 years old?

SoB may not be best sellers historically, but with the price difference and quality difference of the SoB miniature range compared the other 40k factions, that's not gonna change unless GW does something to reinvigorate them. Dark Eldar wouldn't have been in too dissimilar a position prior to their 5th ed release, so it's not an inconceivable idea that an underselling faction can get an overhaul.



Please don't colour your text.
Thanks
Reds8n

People want thwm but for some reason GW cannot see this. This is probably a result of GW not realising that no one out there wants to pay £50.00 for ten 1990's era sculpt models and so getting into the mistaken belief that Sisters are just not that popular and all that online stuff is well, online and so doesnt count.
In the meantime many 3rd party kits are available and I recommend them. They are cheaper and look a lot better.

Oh I agree there is a demand, no argument here. But on paper, there is no demand.

The GW dark wizards of the marketing department don't go to our forums or stores, they only look at the numbers. If they don't see anything of sisters being bought to them that means the community is not interested.

GW sees numbers when it comes to SM so what should they do? Create a new space marine army that uses the old molds save for 2 or 3 new sprus and charge 10 bucks more for it because people like sm.

Same with eldar, let's power tune the wraith knight to get it to sell faster.

 master of ordinance wrote:
People want thwm but for some reason GW cannot see this.

Maybe.

Maybe such people are a small minority of the 40k loving fan base?
GW could have produced a simple monopose sprue of sisters back in the day. We had chest on bolter marines and static Orks and Eldar at the same time. Why not Sisters? Something prevented them doing it which in the (ahem) 'good old days' they could easily have managed.

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
I was wondering though what exactly GW are doing if anything about this demand

Here is an image that adequately explains GW's reasoning on ignoring the fairly substantial demand for plastic Sisters of Battle:



I'm not even joking, that pretty much explains it as far as I can tell. They just don't care, and are more interested in making stuff and then telling people they want to buy it, rather than figuring out what people want to buy and making it. People claim this has changed, but I see no evidence of it.

Many moons ago in a White Dwarf it was remarked that Codexes and models often followed what the sculptors wanted to make. The rules followed after cool new models were created.

When we end up with a sub-par codex with little to no new models, that's a sign of someone doing work they were assigned instead of something they really wanted to work on.

With the model production shifting entirely to plastic, there is a significant amount of lead time required, and I suspect more assigned work than guilty pleasures.

Sisters will get some love from GW when someone at GW actually wants to work on them and pushes for it.

FFS, we've got Genestealer Cult Models and Rules, with a codex rumored to be right around the corner, and Genstealer Cults were dead in the official rules, since about the time Sisters came into existance.

 adamsouza wrote:
Many moons ago in a White Dwarf it was remarked that Codexes and models often followed what the sculptors wanted to make. The rules followed after cool new models were created.

When we end up with a sub-par codex with little to no new models, that's a sign of someone doing work they were assigned instead of something they really wanted to work on.

With the model production shifting entirely to plastic, there is a significant amount of lead time required, and I suspect more assigned work than guilty pleasures.

Sisters will get some love from GW when someone at GW actually wants to work on them and pushes for it.

FFS, we've got Genestealer Cult Models and Rules, with a codex rumored to be right around the corner, and Genstealer Cults were dead in the official rules, since about the time Sisters came into existance.

Would you agree that the time for plastic was during the original release? Every man and his dog at that point had an extensive model range in metal and/or some plastic. We would not see a completely new plastic army until Necrons and DE for third (and DE were just Evil Eldar twins).

IMO they were probably doomed from the start.

The original release of Sisters of Battle were back in the 1990s (and that release of models are the same ones they're still selling today btw).

They didn't do plastic back then for the most part.

 Melissia wrote:
The original release of Sisters of Battle were back in the 1990s (and that release of models are the same ones they're still selling today btw).

They didn't do plastic back then for the most part.

And when they did, hilarity insued like making a tank body plastic, but making the massive cannon on it metal, OH and it's a slimmer so it sits on a plastic stand and tips over all the time

Maybe they're in the position the squats were in where they can't really think of what else to do with them since in that time half a dozen marine chapters have popped up to do every different style of play they could think of I guess. Sisters then currently fill the role of the more generic flamer based marines, especially doesn't help when the blood angels stole the immolators.

If they were to rerelease them they'd probably change a bit around to try to give them their own more unique style. They don't need it, but I don't really think they'd go with a generic living saint as a lord of war despite how much the model could be nice looking at the bigger character kits for AoS as it'd better be that size as a somewhat expensive centerpiece rather than some sister with wings on a 60mm base.

 Melissia wrote:
The original release of Sisters of Battle were back in the 1990s (and that release of models are the same ones they're still selling today btw).

They didn't do plastic back then for the most part.

Most of their ranges at that time were metal AND had a sprue of some kind, even something monopose. Squats had some plastic IIRC.

That the plastic revolution continued with new armies such as Necrons and DE must say something as to how sister were perceived within GW and may be factored against sales.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n0t_u wrote:
Maybe they're in the position the squats were in where they can't really think of what else to do with them since in that time half a dozen marine chapters have popped up to do every different style of play they could think of I guess. Sisters then currently fill the role of the more generic flamer based marines, especially doesn't help when the blood angels stole the immolators.

If they were to rerelease them they'd probably change a bit around to try to give them their own more unique style. They don't need it, but I don't really think they'd go with a generic living saint as a lord of war despite how much the model could be nice looking at the bigger character kits for AoS as it'd better be that size as a somewhat expensive centerpiece rather than some sister with wings on a 60mm base.

What with 3rd party models I would expect an overhaul of the aesthetic...If GW thinks its worth it.

GW has limited resources. Producing a model line that sells well is not a good move if you could produce a line that sells even better (obviously doing both would be even better, but again, limited resources).

They just released Deathwatch. Instead of working on that, they could have done sisters instead. I suppose they went the DW way because they assumed that DW would sell even better than plastic SoB would. If they have a long list of model lines that, in their mind, would sell better than sisters, then they will work on these projects first. It could very well mean that we will never see plastic SoB, even if they would sell well.

fresus wrote:
GW has limited resources. Producing a model line that sells well is not a good move if you could produce a line that sells even better

Therefor, why sell anything but Marines? Drop all the other armies, they don't sell as well as Marines do, just sell Marines and nothing else-- after all, why produce non-Marines when more Marines would sell?

Your logic doesn't even work in basic Economics 101 logic.

 Melissia wrote:

fresus wrote:
GW has limited resources. Producing a model line that sells well is not a good move if you could produce a line that sells even better

Therefor, why sell anything but Marines? Drop all the other armies, they don't sell as well as Marines do, just sell Marines and nothing else-- after all, why produce non-Marines when more Marines would sell?

Your logic doesn't even work in basic Economics 101 logic.

NVM.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Why didn't GW produce sisters plastics during their 'happy time'?

Because there's no one in GW who's a big enough fan to push for it. GW doesn't make decisions on marketability, market demand, or what the customers want. It makes decisions based on what its core team of big names want to do.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Most of their ranges at that time were metal AND had a sprue of some kind, even something monopose. Squats had some plastic IIRC.

That the plastic revolution continued with new armies such as Necrons and DE must say something as to how sister were perceived within GW and may be factored against sales.

Dark eldar were introduced a little over a year after sisters, a whole edition came out between them, necrons were introduced four years after that and everything other than the monolith and warriors were still metal (all of which have been either revamped to superior plastic counterparts or replaced entirely in the fiery birth of the 'newcrons'.)

My understanding of the plastic/metal hybridization was that GW was cannibalizing plastic parts from other plastic kits, space marine backpacks and the like.

 Melissia wrote:

fresus wrote:
GW has limited resources. Producing a model line that sells well is not a good move if you could produce a line that sells even better

Therefor, why sell anything but Marines? Drop all the other armies, they don't sell as well as Marines do, just sell Marines and nothing else-- after all, why produce non-Marines when more Marines would sell?

Your logic doesn't even work in basic Economics 101 logic.

Marines are the best selling model line. So yes, if you could produce only one model line, you should make marines.
However, if you can produce two model lines, making marines + another faction can be better than producing twice as many marines, even if the marine model line as a whole sells better than the other one.

My point was that out of all the new models that GW can make, SoB might not be the best choice for them. Because even if many people want them, maybe even more people want another faction (or a revamp of an existing faction).
With unlimited resources, you should produce all the things that would turn a good profit.
With limited resources, you should produce the things that will turn the highest profit (which means that you end up not producing things that could sell well).