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fresus wrote:
My point was that out of all the new models that GW can make, SoB might not be the best choice for them.

Your argument is, at best, entirely tangential to your conclusion, so you failed to make that point.

 Melissia wrote:

Therefor, why sell anything but Marines? Drop all the other armies, they don't sell as well as Marines do, just sell Marines and nothing else-- after all, why produce non-Marines when more Marines would sell?

Doesn't that basically describe 30K?

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Therefor, why sell anything but Marines? Drop all the other armies, they don't sell as well as Marines do, just sell Marines and nothing else-- after all, why produce non-Marines when more Marines would sell?

Doesn't that basically describe 30K?

I would +1 this more than once, but alas, Dakka doesn't allow it.

Demand demand demand.

Plenty of lines of miniatures have been released in this and other games for which there was no real demand before the release. There was no demand for the original Sisters back in the 90s. There was no huge demand for Tau, or for Necrons, or for Dark Eldar when they were released originally OR when they finally got updated.

GW create demand through the universe, the game, and the fact that something is new or cool.

They don't need there to be a big existing fan base 'demanding' a line to make that line a success.

Hey I'm the OP.
Strangely there were actually staff from head office in my GW today at 40k night.
I mentioned to one of the head office bods that they should mention getting SoB done in plastic when she goes back to Nottingham and she literally just laughed at the comment.
What I then found funny was that 3 other people then jumped in on the conversation and all said Yeh they'd love plastic sisters.
The head office woman then just stood there and smiled. This episode just indicates even further to me that there is definitely a demand for sisters and by just laughing it off GW staff don't really seem to take it seriously, obviously just looking at the sales figures and assume no-one wants a new range.
Even after everyone having a discussion while she stood and listened and all 4 of us agreed that price and the 90s modelling was what stopped us from starting a sisters force.
My guess is that GW actually probably do very little in terms of research through focus groups.
If they did they'd head this a lot more and actually take the prospect of a new line seriously.

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
Hey I'm the OP.
Strangely there were actually staff from head office in my GW today at 40k night.
I mentioned to one of the head office bods that they should mention getting SoB done in plastic when she goes back to Nottingham and she literally just laughed at the comment.
What I then found funny was that 3 other people then jumped in on the conversation and all said Yeh they'd love plastic sisters.
The head office woman then just stood there and smiled. This episode just indicates even further to me that there is definitely a demand for sisters and by just laughing it off GW staff don't really seem to take it seriously, obviously just looking at the sales figures and assume no-one wants a new range.
Even after everyone having a discussion while she stood and listened and all 4 of us agreed that price and the 90s modelling was what stopped us from starting a sisters force.
My guess is that GW actually probably do very little in terms of research through focus groups.
If they did they'd head this a lot more and actually take the prospect of a new line seriously.

Maybe she was laughing because they have some in the pipeline....

 General Kroll wrote:

Maybe she was laughing because they have some in the pipeline....

This made me laugh, so it is possible.

Why would GW ever make plastic Sisters when they can make more Space Marines instead? Space Marines sell, Sisters don't. Ergo, GW makes more Space Marines. That is why we now got Deathwatch, and still no Sisters.
Which really is a vicious cycle, because the lack of support and updates probably is one of the major reasons SoB aren't selling well, which is the cause for the lack of support and updates.

In any case, there is a guy here in Russia making really nice plastic Sisters

Did someone buy some of the russian sister yet ?

As much as I dislike a lot of GW's business decisions I can't really fault them. Sisters aren't a very big seller - never have been. I still think the best option is a Deathwatch-style board game release to get some new plastics into the market without "dedicating" themselves to a proper Sisters army revamp.

I've noticed a few people have the same argument. That being that in order to measure demand within a customer base GW just look at current sales figures.
This is an obvious fallacy because big businesses do a lot more research than that when looking at product lines for the future.
If they didn't how did GW know that they could cash in on the massive surge in popularity of Japanese products (gundam, animal etc.) which was obviously drawn upon in the development of the Tau?
They wouldn't have expended all the money they did in developing this line if they didn't have solid reasons to support the conclusion that this would turn a tidy profit.
Obviously the massive strength of the faction in terms of gameplay helped make them a success but this tends to happen with new products anywhere.
The point is that they must have dome some rather substantial market research. Now what form does that research take and what is GWs attitude towards conducting research now?
If focus groups and surveys are taken how is this done and what is the selection criteria?
What pool are they selecting from? Let's be honest they will do this in multiple market segments if those running the company are in the least bit competent. This is due to the different trends in seperate market areas.
GW is a business and is run as such, you can see that in the way that the majority of releases target the SM players as the most highly represented faction.
That does not however detract from the fact that as everything is based on supply and demand and where there appears to be a large demand for better modelled sisters for a more affordable price GW is lagging behind in supply.
The notion that they want to sell all the old metal models to warrant the production and release of new sisters makes no business sense in the slightest.
Anyone who owns or is employed in the operation of a business should spot the flaw in this argument.
An analogy would be that a shop that sells shoes has a range of footwear of different styles everything is kept new and up to date with current trends all except for the section for trainers (or sneakers for you lovely yanks). Now why would the shop refuse to get in the latest fashion of trainers on the grounds that the old trainers aren't selling well enough to support the conclusion that people want trainers?
Especially if the trainers are more expensive than all the other products available?
Yes there are flaws in this analogy but it is a simplified way of looking at the explanation people are putting forward.
It doesn't make business sense.
Stock is not an asset which will permanently retain its value that's why companies account for depreciation on all these items.
GW must be doing some kind of market research on what current customers and potential new customers want and this is not showing the demand, that I along with what appears to be a lot of others are seeing, for an update to sisters.
This leads to one of 2 obviously conclusions. Either the current GW methodology of conducting market research is flawed or all of us who keep harping on about wanting new sisters live in isolated bubbles that do not reflect the community as a whole.... And from looking at GWs track record and the ongoing trend of ever decreasing profits year on year I think I know which is more likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
As much as I dislike a lot of GW's business decisions I can't really fault them. Sisters aren't a very big seller - never have been. I still think the best option is a Deathwatch-style board game release to get some new plastics into the market without "dedicating" themselves to a proper Sisters army revamp.

This would be a good means by which GW could test the waters but that would have to be after a decision has been made at GW that there is sufficient evidence to support putting them in the box set in the first place.
When you consider that as an imperial faction they would have to be paired against a xenos force, they'd need a heavily supported faction to help boost the sales to reduce the risk factor involved.
There though lies the issue with this plan, they'd have to pick Tau or eldar as popular factions to draw more interest but these forces are too far away from sisters in terms of power for the game to be balanced and would only highlight the deficiencies in the Sororita codex and push people away from sisters. They'd need to update the codex to buff the nuns (let's be honest they're not going to nerf Tau or eldar).
They would therefore need to see some indicator that there is a demand out there.
Now my assertion is that there is a demand, now this is only anecdotal but I don't appear to be the only person under this impression.
Then you must ask why do GW not see this demand?
The OP was therefore how can we convince GW there is a demand?
If I was an investor at GW this is the kind of thing I'd be asking at the annual general meeting as I'd be rather concerned with the downward trend of profits coinciding with increases in product retail pricing. "what kind if market research is being conducted by GW and what controls are in place to ensure it is accurate and not self confirming?"

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
It's been proven through the previous range that they didnt sell very well.
What 16 year old boy, the target demographic, wants to play with girls?
The reason I didn't was because they were more expensive. Then the prices of
Not the type who like warhammers is the answer.
For the veterans I feel it's a 'grass is greener on the other side' kind of deal. It's an aspirational hobby and we aspire to what we can't get. When it's finally within reach we get bored or set the bar higher.
How many Genestealer Cult and full plastic Storm Trooper armies have we seen since the release? Not many.
Maybe that's a bad rules issue as Ad Mech seem to be doing well.

Uhh, I was a 16 year old boy who wanted to play Sisters of Battle.

The reason I didn't was because a box of Battle Sisters was 50 dollars and a box of plastic infantry was 35 dollars.

And then when Battle Sisters were still 50 dollars for 10 and plastic infantry were 43 dollars for 10, I started playing Sisters of Battle because the price difference wasn't as ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
I've noticed a few people have the same argument. That being that in order to measure demand within a customer base GW just look at current sales figures.
This is an obvious fallacy because big businesses do a lot more research than that when looking at product lines for the future.

GW doesn't. They've said openly they don't do any market research whatsoever and rely only on sales figures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
Then you must ask why do GW not see this demand?

The number 1 response to "Why don't you play Sisters of Battle?" is "They're way too friggin expensive."
The number 2 response is, "They don't have any plastic infantry."

 Pouncey wrote:

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
It's been proven through the previous range that they didnt sell very well.
What 16 year old boy, the target demographic, wants to play with girls?
The reason I didn't was because they were more expensive. Then the prices of
Not the type who like warhammers is the answer.
For the veterans I feel it's a 'grass is greener on the other side' kind of deal. It's an aspirational hobby and we aspire to what we can't get. When it's finally within reach we get bored or set the bar higher.
How many Genestealer Cult and full plastic Storm Trooper armies have we seen since the release? Not many.
Maybe that's a bad rules issue as Ad Mech seem to be doing well.

Uhh, I was a 16 year old boy who wanted to play Sisters of Battle.

The reason I didn't was because a box of Battle Sisters was 50 dollars and a box of plastic infantry was 35 dollars.

And then when Battle Sisters were still 50 dollars for 10 and plastic infantry were 43 dollars for 10, I started playing Sisters of Battle because the price difference wasn't as ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
I've noticed a few people have the same argument. That being that in order to measure demand within a customer base GW just look at current sales figures.
This is an obvious fallacy because big businesses do a lot more research than that when looking at product lines for the future.

GW doesn't. They've said openly they don't do any market research whatsoever and rely only on sales figures.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
Then you must ask why do GW not see this demand?

The number 1 response to "Why don't you play Sisters of Battle?" is "They're way too friggin expensive."
The number 2 response is, "They don't have any plastic infantry."

Pouncey, thank you very much sir... im assuming you're a sir that is. Apologies if not.

That would explain then why GW have not recognised the demand for plastic sisters, that makes the conclusions that must therefore be drawn about the longevity of he company even more concerning.
Ive worked with a number of large retail groups and from a strategic planning perspective some kind of market research should be completed as standard.
Have they stated this policy of rejection of market research recently?
The reason why I ask is to go back to the original post, I wanted to know what could be done to evidence the level of demand to see if it supports a proposal to be made to GW.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Why would GW ever make plastic Sisters when they can make more Space Marines instead?

Because making something for the people who don't buy your most popular line to buy from you is a good idea?

Extrapolate this logic out and you get every manufacturing company only ever making one thing.

I remain skeptical that there was sufficient real world demand for many years to justify the expense, but I don't find it impossible that the lines of decreasing design and production costs and consumer demand will intersect soon, or perhaps already have.

Pr3Mu5 wrote:
Pouncey, thank you very much sir... im assuming you're a sir that is. Apologies if not.

I am not, as I have never been knighted. I am male though, if that's what you mean.

That would explain then why GW have not recognised the demand for plastic sisters, that makes the conclusions that must therefore be drawn about the longevity of he company even more concerning.

You could also point to the fact GW stores haven't done a sale event in over two decades. Or the company's behavior toward third party retailers and third party Internet distributors for the past fifteen years.

Ive worked with a number of large retail groups and from a strategic planning perspective some kind of market research should be completed as standard.

Lots of people look at GW's business practices and come to the conclusion they are insane.

Have they stated this policy of rejection of market research recently?

No idea. I have to rely on what other people tell me GW says, because I have no idea where they say it. Their communication with their customers is generally either very poor or non-existent.

The reason why I ask is to go back to the original post, I wanted to know what could be done to evidence the level of demand to see if it supports a proposal to be made to GW.

Well, a year or two ago Dakkites tried to organize a large-scale thing for 40k players to show mass support for Sisters of Battle by having as many people as possible buy a single Sisters of Battle miniature and send an e-mail to GW explaining why they bought it.

I dont need plastic sisters. I dont want to mix a new fig line into my current sisters army.

Im leary of a relaunch and what it might do to my codex.

I do fine with the sisters models and codex i have. Give me a few formations to fix my lackluster units and Im better than good.

Plastic Sisters are as far from my wishlist as anything can get.

Which is good, because the idea of plastic and sisters meeting up just isnt likely.

 Pouncey wrote:


Well, a year or two ago Dakkites tried to organize a large-scale thing for 40k players to show mass support for Sisters of Battle by having as many people as possible buy a single Sisters of Battle miniature and send an e-mail to GW explaining why they bought it.

That's really interesting. I haven't seen this, any chance you have a link to any info on this?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/632419.page
TLDR:
Buy a SOB model on specific day immediately follow it up with an email to Customer services.
The campaign made 50-100 people do this. Figures were woolly/optimistic.
Replies from GW were stock emails.
Some models went out of stock but the orders were either cancelled by customers or fulfilled with a small delay.
Thread degenerates pg 8 into other companies make alternatives and damn I missed this or I didn't have the cash at the time.
Then.....................nothing.

Now that they have a Facebook book page those 50-100 people could post over there asking for plastic sisters

 adamsouza wrote:
Now that they have a Facebook book page those 50-100 people could post over there asking for plastic sisters

50-100 people asking for a product in a sea of THOUSANDS of people who could careless is not going to change a companies mind.

 adamsouza wrote:
Now that they have a Facebook book page those 50-100 people could post over there asking for plastic sisters

https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpermalink.php%3Fstory_fbid%3D1667961463524486%26id%3D1575682476085719

Start posting!

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/632419.page
TLDR:
Buy a SOB model on specific day immediately follow it up with an email to Customer services.
The campaign made 50-100 people do this. Figures were woolly/optimistic.
Replies from GW were stock emails.
Some models went out of stock but the orders were either cancelled by customers or fulfilled with a small delay.
Thread degenerates pg 8 into other companies make alternatives and damn I missed this or I didn't have the cash at the time.
Then.....................nothing.

In short, it did not go well in any way whatsoever.

So, totally off topic, but I read the title of this thread. Did anyone else think of the episode of Dexter's Laboratory where he asked for a Spastic Sister? I'm just imagining "Plastic Sisters, that's what you asked for, Plastic sisters. That's what I am, a Plastic Sister."

I have had Sisters of Battle figures since their original release. I only managed to turn them into a full army a couple of years ago, due to being a lot older and having disposable income. I eBay trawled for most of it, particularly the vehicles, because I like the original Mk1 Rhino chassis much more than the new one.

I would love to see plastic Sisters of Battle, so long as they fit with the existing range. I was really cross back when the plastic Cadians were released, because they weren't wearing the same gear as the old metals which my army was built from.

I would also love to see a new Codex for them, one that involves dead trees and can be held in my hands rather than viewed on a screen.

Talking directly to GW on their Facebook page might well be worth doing. Until either all the SoB models go OOP or a plastic range appears, I will continue building my army slowly but surely out of the existing metals. Just got a few more figures to get before Stage 1 is done... then I can start adding the Ecclesiarchical weirdness of arco-flagellants and penitent engines.

Gen.Steiner wrote:
I have had Sisters of Battle figures since their original release. I only managed to turn them into a full army a couple of years ago, due to being a lot older and having disposable income. I eBay trawled for most of it, particularly the vehicles, because I like the original Mk1 Rhino chassis much more than the new one.

I would love to see plastic Sisters of Battle, so long as they fit with the existing range. I was really cross back when the plastic Cadians were released, because they weren't wearing the same gear as the old metals which my army was built from.

I would also love to see a new Codex for them, one that involves dead trees and can be held in my hands rather than viewed on a screen.

Talking directly to GW on their Facebook page might well be worth doing. Until either all the SoB models go OOP or a plastic range appears, I will continue building my army slowly but surely out of the existing metals. Just got a few more figures to get before Stage 1 is done... then I can start adding the Ecclesiarchical weirdness of arco-flagellants and penitent engines.

Making the new plastics fit the aesthetic of the old metals is theoretically possible. Grey Knights did it. (minus the swapping of faux latin for english)

I emailed them to place an order - no response as yet :(

I'm not sure where people are getting that plastic sisters would be any cheaper than the current ones. You can't assume GW will make a price break just because they change medium.

nareik wrote:
I'm not sure where people are getting that plastic sisters would be any cheaper than the current ones. You can't assume GW will make a price break just because they change medium.

Except plastic models made by GW have always been cheaper than the metal equivalents.

Depends, metal legion of the damned were the same price as the finecrap models.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Depends, metal legion of the damned were the same price as the finecrap models.

Which doesn't have any impact on what Pouncey said because Finecast isn't plastic.