Adding more diversity to the 40K universe.

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**Pouncey**

Regarding the IoM's casualties, I'll do the math.

Let's assume that the average day in the Astra Militarum sees 20 million casualties, which would be way higher than it actually is.

This means they're taking 7.3 billion casualties every year. Enough to basically wipe out every human on Earth, every single day.

To replace them without ANY extras, you'd need 7.3 billion births a year.

Dividing 10 quadrillion (number of women in the IOM) by 7.3 billion (births needed) we get over 1.8 million.

This means that if 1 in every million female humans is giving birth once a year, the Astra Militarum's losses are not only fully accounted for, but there is also an 80% surplus.

**Jacksmiles**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Gen.Steiner wrote:
Good lord this thread is pretty crazy.

First of all, to answer the original post, I would do the following:

1) Have the sculptors create heads for Marines and Guard that are representative of different generalised ethnic groups: European, Asian, African; so that not every model has a White Man Face. If sculptors like Kev White can create figures that are recognisably Black, or ranges like Copplestone's Chinese Warlord armies, or - actually - any 28mm historical manufacturer can produce figures that look like the ethnicities they're supposed to represent, I don't see why Games Workshop's sculptors can't give us African-descent Space Marines or Asian-descent Guardsmen or whatnot.

2) Between 3-4 female torsos and heads in every box of Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Imperial Guard and Adeptus Mechanicus.

3) Relaunch the Sisters of Battle with a fully supported range of plastic figures, a new Codex, and so on and so forth.

4) Have the painting team paint the humans in a much more diverse way - I was really pleased to see the Stormcast Questor painted with Black skin.

5) More Xenos species - Hrud, Demiurg, more Kroot, and weirder races like the Bargheesi or the Loxatl.

6) Codex: Enemy Within covering Chaos and Genestealer cults, with male and female cultist models... and Arbites too (also male and female).

And that covers it nicely I think.

In terms of WIMMIN R WEAK LOL...

The YPJ beg to differ, as do the Scythians, the Dahomey, the Soviet Union, Tito's Partisans, the FARC, and pretty much every revolutionary and guerilla army ever, not to mention the operatives of the SOE, the Israeli Defence Force, and so on and so forth. I mean, there's even evidence to show that people like the Vikings had female warriors, while the American Indian tribes had not just female but intersex and transgender warriors; and the Tunisian Berbers who fought the Arab conquests were mostly led by women as they were a matriarchal culture.

Sure, on average looking at a normal distribution curve, men are statistically stronger than the statistical average woman, however, I would not like to try and fight any woman with even a modicum of training in any martial art, and the curves themselves will show you quite clearly that a proportion of women will equal or better the strongest men.

In terms of modern combat, and then extrapolating a mere 38,000 years into the future... 38,000 years ago Humanity was in the early stone age, and Neanderthals had been extinct for roughly 2,000 years. In Rogue Trader, it is explicitly stated that High Gothic and Low Gothic are totally alien languages that bear no resemblance to anything spoken or written today, and they are 'translated' into Latin and English respectively for our ease of understanding as players. To say that we can discuss "average" people in the year 40,000 is nonsensical, as the descendants of genetically enhanced settler peoples from the Golden Age of Humanity would vary so wildly in their genetic makeup as to be wholly new species in many cases.

The fact is, the background of Warhammer 40,000 clearly shows a much more diverse makeup to human and alien societies than is represented on the tabletop; and it would be nice for Games Workshop to produce official models to reflect their own background.

In this post: 40k is a safe space! Chinese people, mexican people, black people! If I don't see a transgender space marine GW is bigots!

Point: "Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

Counter-point: "LOL HURR"

**Pouncey**

BossJakadakk wrote:
>"Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

>>"LOL HURR"

I think the general problem with anti-SJWs is that as much as SJWs cram diversity into places it doesn't belong, anti-SJWs want to deny or strip diversity from places it does belong or even already exists.

I wish both sides would just shut up and go argue with each other on Tumblr.

**Jacksmiles**

Pouncey wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
>"Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

>>"LOL HURR"

I think the general problem with anti-SJWs is that as much as SJWs cram diversity into places it doesn't belong, anti-SJWs want to deny or strip diversity from places it does belong or even already exists.

I wish both sides would just shut up and go argue with each other on Tumblr.

All right, but tie that into quoting me

did you think I was being the "hurr?" I changed the way I arranged the post to try to show that I meant it as a summarization of the points being made that I quoted.

**the_scotsman**

Nothing like the old anti-sjw argument.

"Hey, it looks like 90% of the humanoid miniatures produced by this company are male, and almost all of them in this paint catalogue are painted white. Even the ones who are supposed to be both women and men in the lore.

Maybe we can throw some female heads in there."

"LOL you want transgender SJW space Marines!!!"

**Gen.Steiner**

BossJakadakk wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
>"Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

>>"LOL HURR"

I think the general problem with anti-SJWs is that as much as SJWs cram diversity into places it doesn't belong, anti-SJWs want to deny or strip diversity from places it does belong or even already exists.

I wish both sides would just shut up and go argue with each other on Tumblr.

All right, but tie that into quoting me

did you think I was being the "hurr?" I changed the way I arranged the post to try to show that I meant it as a summarization of the points being made that I quoted.

And a rather excellent summary too, I thought!

**Pouncey**

BossJakadakk wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
>"Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

>>"LOL HURR"

I think the general problem with anti-SJWs is that as much as SJWs cram diversity into places it doesn't belong, anti-SJWs want to deny or strip diversity from places it does belong or even already exists.

I wish both sides would just shut up and go argue with each other on Tumblr.

All right, but tie that into quoting me

did you think I was being the "hurr?" I changed the way I arranged the post to try to show that I meant it as a summarization of the points being made that I quoted.

I was supporting your point, not arguing with it. : D

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gen.Steiner wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
>"Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

>>"LOL HURR"

I think the general problem with anti-SJWs is that as much as SJWs cram diversity into places it doesn't belong, anti-SJWs want to deny or strip diversity from places it does belong or even already exists.

I wish both sides would just shut up and go argue with each other on Tumblr.

All right, but tie that into quoting me

did you think I was being the "hurr?" I changed the way I arranged the post to try to show that I meant it as a summarization of the points being made that I quoted.

And a rather excellent summary too, I thought!

Yes I agree, the complete disregard for the use of the game's lore in defining what the game's models should look like was... I have no words, really. "HURRR!" was a concise yet fully accurate and complete summary.

**Jacksmiles**

My bad. I'm still a little iffy on my understanding of SJW accusing and nonsense relating to that acronym, so didn't really know where that was going

I do know what it stands for, now, though! I actively avoided looking it up for so long because I just didn't want to have to know.

**Snake Tortoise**

While I think female IG parts is a good idea I don't think that would necessarily result in many more female players. I see no harm in trying to draw them in, but it seems to me 40k is a intrinsically male pursuit. I don't know how many teenage girls are playing computer games (phone games aside) so it may just be a generational thing but of all the women I know (mid twenties to mid thirties mostly) I can only think of one who plays computer games and only on a very casual basis

**Pouncey**

BossJakadakk wrote:
My bad. I'm still a little iffy on my understanding of SJW accusing and nonsense relating to that acronym, so didn't really know where that was going I do know what it stands for, now, though! I actively avoided looking it up for so long because I just didn't want to have to know.

On the WoW and Overwatch forums both sides come up frequently.

Just steer clear of the whole mess.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Snake Tortoise wrote:
While I think female IG parts is a good idea I don't think that would necessarily result in many more female players. I see no harm in trying to draw them in, but it seems to me 40k is a intrinsically male pursuit. I don't know how many teenage girls are playing computer games (phone games aside) so it may just be a generational thing but of all the women I know (mid twenties to mid thirties mostly) I can only think of one who plays computer games and only on a very casual basis

Actually there are a lot of women (not just teenage girls) who play computer games. They're nowhere near a boy's club anymore and I hope tabletop gaming is headed that way too.

It's very difficult to play World of Warcraft (not a phone game), for example, and join a raiding guild where there is not at least one or two women on the team. The 10-player raid team I was on back from 2008 to 2010 had at least 4 of the regular team being women. One of them was so not-casual that when she had a temporarily-lethal asthma attack one day (she was revived in the ambulance) the paramedics basically had to pry her away from the computer because she was dying right in front of them and refused to stop playing.

If you mean the competitive PvP scene in computer games, where the best of the best in each game compete for huge monetary prizes in front of a stadium filled with more people than attended the Superbowl (in person, not world-wide), and millions more across the planet, then yes, most of the competitors ARE male. It's not because a lot of women aren't interested in the game itself, it's just that getting skilled enough at a computer game to compete at that level requires competitors to make a choice at some point which women are a lot more likely to simply say no to. I don't know what that choice is, since the PvP fan I spoke to on the subject never clarified.

That said, the online gaming community could certainly treat women a lot better than it currently does, as there's a lot of misogyny and even rape threats pop up frequently...

**Melissia**

BossJakadakk wrote:
SJW

Can we not?

**ShieldBrother**

BossJakadakk wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Gen.Steiner wrote:
Good lord this thread is pretty crazy.

First of all, to answer the original post, I would do the following:

1) Have the sculptors create heads for Marines and Guard that are representative of different generalised ethnic groups: European, Asian, African; so that not every model has a White Man Face. If sculptors like Kev White can create figures that are recognisably Black, or ranges like Copplestone's Chinese Warlord armies, or - actually - any 28mm historical manufacturer can produce figures that look like the ethnicities they're supposed to represent, I don't see why Games Workshop's sculptors can't give us African-descent Space Marines or Asian-descent Guardsmen or whatnot.

2) Between 3-4 female torsos and heads in every box of Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Imperial Guard and Adeptus Mechanicus.

3) Relaunch the Sisters of Battle with a fully supported range of plastic figures, a new Codex, and so on and so forth.

4) Have the painting team paint the humans in a much more diverse way - I was really pleased to see the Stormcast Questor painted with Black skin.

5) More Xenos species - Hrud, Demiurg, more Kroot, and weirder races like the Bargheesi or the Loxatl.

6) Codex: Enemy Within covering Chaos and Genestealer cults, with male and female cultist models... and Arbites too (also male and female).

And that covers it nicely I think.

In terms of WIMMIN R WEAK LOL...

The YPJ beg to differ, as do the Scythians, the Dahomey, the Soviet Union, Tito's Partisans, the FARC, and pretty much every revolutionary and guerilla army ever, not to mention the operatives of the SOE, the Israeli Defence Force, and so on and so forth. I mean, there's even evidence to show that people like the Vikings had female warriors, while the American Indian tribes had not just female but intersex and transgender warriors; and the Tunisian Berbers who fought the Arab conquests were mostly led by women as they were a matriarchal culture.

Sure, on average looking at a normal distribution curve, men are statistically stronger than the statistical average woman, however, I would not like to try and fight any woman with even a modicum of training in any martial art, and the curves themselves will show you quite clearly that a proportion of women will equal or better the strongest men.

In terms of modern combat, and then extrapolating a mere 38,000 years into the future... 38,000 years ago Humanity was in the early stone age, and Neanderthals had been extinct for roughly 2,000 years. In Rogue Trader, it is explicitly stated that High Gothic and Low Gothic are totally alien languages that bear no resemblance to anything spoken or written today, and they are 'translated' into Latin and English respectively for our ease of understanding as players. To say that we can discuss "average" people in the year 40,000 is nonsensical, as the descendants of genetically enhanced settler peoples from the Golden Age of Humanity would vary so wildly in their genetic makeup as to be wholly new species in many cases.

The fact is, the background of Warhammer 40,000 clearly shows a much more diverse makeup to human and alien societies than is represented on the tabletop; and it would be nice for Games Workshop to produce official models to reflect their own background.

In this post: 40k is a safe space! Chinese people, mexican people, black people! If I don't see a transgender space marine GW is bigots!

Point: "Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

Counter-point: "LOL HURR"

It was a joke, the hurr was intended. Thanks for making me sound like an donkey-cave in your posts though. To take it seriously:

1. Except every Cadians guardsmen is just that, cadian. There is no race mixing on Cadians unlike Earth, so no, they shouldn't get those different heads. Space Marines are in the same boat, their geneseed changes them to the point where they all look damn near the same.

2. If GW had infinite piles of cash, sure, why not. (Dark eldar already have this though)

3. Once again, this delves into the resources and business plan/success of GW. You don't invest that much money into a faction with just a leap of faith, it is a huge risk. If GW had infinite money, sweet.

4. Again, this usually goes against the Lore and is super forceful when for some reason Ultras, Celestial Lions and White Scars team up for no other reason than the perfect ethnic trio. (Actually on is a generic white dude, scratch that, make ultras the Arabian guardsmen dudes). Once again, there is little to no race mixing in 40k so most of the minority themed armies are isolated to the point where they are the only representation of their race.

5. Too old school for the new 40k it currently is compared to RT.

6. Why would arbites be in the same book as the dudes they kill?

And female warriors exist and will always exist, but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

If every race, army, and faction was represented on tabletop as in the background, it'd be literally impossible for GW to produce that ridiclous amount of models. Therefore they pick flagship factions and armies, and run with those. (Cadians, Ultras, etc.)

**Pouncey**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Gen.Steiner wrote:
Good lord this thread is pretty crazy.

First of all, to answer the original post, I would do the following:

1) Have the sculptors create heads for Marines and Guard that are representative of different generalised ethnic groups: European, Asian, African; so that not every model has a White Man Face. If sculptors like Kev White can create figures that are recognisably Black, or ranges like Copplestone's Chinese Warlord armies, or - actually - any 28mm historical manufacturer can produce figures that look like the ethnicities they're supposed to represent, I don't see why Games Workshop's sculptors can't give us African-descent Space Marines or Asian-descent Guardsmen or whatnot.

2) Between 3-4 female torsos and heads in every box of Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Imperial Guard and Adeptus Mechanicus.

3) Relaunch the Sisters of Battle with a fully supported range of plastic figures, a new Codex, and so on and so forth.

4) Have the painting team paint the humans in a much more diverse way - I was really pleased to see the Stormcast Questor painted with Black skin.

5) More Xenos species - Hrud, Demiurg, more Kroot, and weirder races like the Bargheesi or the Loxatl.

6) Codex: Enemy Within covering Chaos and Genestealer cults, with male and female cultist models... and Arbites too (also male and female).

And that covers it nicely I think.

In terms of WIMMIN R WEAK LOL...

The YPJ beg to differ, as do the Scythians, the Dahomey, the Soviet Union, Tito's Partisans, the FARC, and pretty much every revolutionary and guerilla army ever, not to mention the operatives of the SOE, the Israeli Defence Force, and so on and so forth. I mean, there's even evidence to show that people like the Vikings had female warriors, while the American Indian tribes had not just female but intersex and transgender warriors; and the Tunisian Berbers who fought the Arab conquests were mostly led by women as they were a matriarchal culture.

Sure, on average looking at a normal distribution curve, men are statistically stronger than the statistical average woman, however, I would not like to try and fight any woman with even a modicum of training in any martial art, and the curves themselves will show you quite clearly that a proportion of women will equal or better the strongest men.

In terms of modern combat, and then extrapolating a mere 38,000 years into the future... 38,000 years ago Humanity was in the early stone age, and Neanderthals had been extinct for roughly 2,000 years. In Rogue Trader, it is explicitly stated that High Gothic and Low Gothic are totally alien languages that bear no resemblance to anything spoken or written today, and they are 'translated' into Latin and English respectively for our ease of understanding as players. To say that we can discuss "average" people in the year 40,000 is nonsensical, as the descendants of genetically enhanced settler peoples from the Golden Age of Humanity would vary so wildly in their genetic makeup as to be wholly new species in many cases.

The fact is, the background of Warhammer 40,000 clearly shows a much more diverse makeup to human and alien societies than is represented on the tabletop; and it would be nice for Games Workshop to produce official models to reflect their own background.

In this post: 40k is a safe space! Chinese people, mexican people, black people! If I don't see a transgender space marine GW is bigots!

Point: "Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

Counter-point: "LOL HURR"

It was a joke, the hurr was intended. Thanks for making me sound like an donkey-cave in your posts though. To take it seriously:

1. Except every Cadians guardsmen is just that, cadian. There is no race mixing on Cadians unlike Earth, so no, they shouldn't get those different heads. Space Marines are in the same boat, their geneseed changes them to the point where they all look damn near the same.

2. If GW had infinite piles of cash, sure, why not. (Dark eldar already have this though)

3. Once again, this delves into the resources and business plan/success of GW. You don't invest that much money into a faction with just a leap of faith, it is a huge risk. If GW had infinite money, sweet.

4. Again, this usually goes against the Lore and is super forceful when for some reason Ultras, Celestial Lions and White Scars team up for no other reason than the perfect ethnic trio. (Actually on is a generic white dude, scratch that, make ultras the Arabian guardsmen dudes). Once again, there is little to no race mixing in 40k so most of the minority themed armies are isolated to the point where they are the only representation of their race.

5. Too old school for the new 40k it currently is compared to RT.

6. Why would arbites be in the same book as the dudes they kill?

And female warriors exist and will always exist, but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

If every race, army, and faction was represented on tabletop as in the background, it'd be literally impossible for GW to produce that ridiclous amount of models. Therefore they pick flagship factions and armies, and run with those. (Cadians, Ultras, etc.)

1. I dunno about Cadians. In the lore when the IG is sent to other planets or systems to fight, they get their reinforcements from the locals since waiting around for reinforcements from your homeworld takes too long. Since they also get reinforcements from the offspring of their female members who have to be equipped uniformly, having an old Cadian Regiment that's been to a lot of different war zones over the years could quite easily incorporate a wide variety of human races while still having everyone born on Cadia from Cadian parents being white. Basically IG regiments that get sent to different warzones only get more diverse over the years, even if their originating planet is wholly uniform.

Space Marines though, which of their implants actually changes their skin color? GW's gone into quite a bit of detail about Space Marine implants so this information should be there.

2/general if GW had infinite cash: If GW had infinite cash they wouldn't need to make models anymore and they could hyperinflate Earth's entire economy to the point everything is worth infinity dollars but every person also has infinity dollars. Stay away from the word "infinity" when you don't ACTUALLY mean it.

4. Sisters of Battle are recruited from a huge number of different worlds, trained at a central facility, and then divided up into various Orders. There's a good lore case for Sisters of Battle having a very diverse racial makeup since any Sisters of Battle order could and often would actually be composed of Sisters of Battle from many different planets. I'd still like to see the lore about which implant changes a Space Marine's facial structure, hair type and skin color though. And I already mentioned why a diverse IG regiment is an inevitability regardless of its origins.

5. More alien races never hurts in a game where over HALF the factions are various flavors of Imperium.

6. Because none of the individual factions is big enough in terms of different units to warrant its own Codex, and this lets two people split a Codex while still playing different factions. And the concept of sales in general shows that if you sometimes let people save some money on their purchases (but not always) they ARE going to buy enough of it to actually make your profits go up. The entire concept of Black Friday in the USA is based on this idea.

**Insectum7**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

That's not being argued. Men, as a whole, are stronger. But because we're talking about the entire breadth of humanity, there will be many women who are stronger than many men.

And individual strength is just not necessarily that important on the grand scheme of things, when it comes to winning wars. It's useful if you are in a position to take advantage of it, but if you aren't, you just do something else.

**Snake Tortoise**

Pouncey wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Snake Tortoise wrote:
While I think female IG parts is a good idea I don't think that would necessarily result in many more female players. I see no harm in trying to draw them in, but it seems to me 40k is a intrinsically male pursuit. I don't know how many teenage girls are playing computer games (phone games aside) so it may just be a generational thing but of all the women I know (mid twenties to mid thirties mostly) I can only think of one who plays computer games and only on a very casual basis

Actually there are a lot of women (not just teenage girls) who play computer games. They're nowhere near a boy's club anymore and I hope tabletop gaming is headed that way too.

It's very difficult to play World of Warcraft (not a phone game), for example, and join a raiding guild where there is not at least one or two women on the team. The 10-player raid team I was on back from 2008 to 2010 had at least 4 of the regular team being women. One of them was so not-casual that when she had a temporarily-lethal asthma attack one day (she was revived in the ambulance) the paramedics basically had to pry her away from the computer because she was dying right in front of them and refused to stop playing.

If you mean the competitive PvP scene in computer games, where the best of the best in each game compete for huge monetary prizes in front of a stadium filled with more people than attended the Superbowl (in person, not world-wide), and millions more across the planet, then yes, most of the competitors ARE male. It's not because a lot of women aren't interested in the game itself, it's just that getting skilled enough at a computer game to compete at that level requires competitors to make a choice at some point which women are a lot more likely to simply say no to. I don't know what that choice is, since the PvP fan I spoke to on the subject never clarified.

That said, the online gaming community could certainly treat women a lot better than it currently does, as there's a lot of misogyny and even rape threats pop up frequently...

It would be hard to find good statistics breaking down the proportions of male/female gamers (genuine gamers who play a lot) but like I said, in my own experience I don't see it.

Regarding treatment of female gamers I think it's an issue blown out of proportion by the media who are out of touch with the internet generally. I played a lot of Halo on Xbox live back when it was a pretty new thing and the banter is best compared to the Youtube comments section where you can say more or less whatever you like without consequence. I don't think a bit of verbal abuse from an anonymous teenager should be taken too seriously when you can easily ignore it or just mute them. Any threat of violence in real life should be taken seriously but over the internet... nah

**ShieldBrother**

Pouncey wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
BossJakadakk wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Gen.Steiner wrote:
Good lord this thread is pretty crazy.

First of all, to answer the original post, I would do the following:

1) Have the sculptors create heads for Marines and Guard that are representative of different generalised ethnic groups: European, Asian, African; so that not every model has a White Man Face. If sculptors like Kev White can create figures that are recognisably Black, or ranges like Copplestone's Chinese Warlord armies, or - actually - any 28mm historical manufacturer can produce figures that look like the ethnicities they're supposed to represent, I don't see why Games Workshop's sculptors can't give us African-descent Space Marines or Asian-descent Guardsmen or whatnot.

2) Between 3-4 female torsos and heads in every box of Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Imperial Guard and Adeptus Mechanicus.

3) Relaunch the Sisters of Battle with a fully supported range of plastic figures, a new Codex, and so on and so forth.

4) Have the painting team paint the humans in a much more diverse way - I was really pleased to see the Stormcast Questor painted with Black skin.

5) More Xenos species - Hrud, Demiurg, more Kroot, and weirder races like the Bargheesi or the Loxatl.

6) Codex: Enemy Within covering Chaos and Genestealer cults, with male and female cultist models... and Arbites too (also male and female).

And that covers it nicely I think.

In terms of WIMMIN R WEAK LOL...

The YPJ beg to differ, as do the Scythians, the Dahomey, the Soviet Union, Tito's Partisans, the FARC, and pretty much every revolutionary and guerilla army ever, not to mention the operatives of the SOE, the Israeli Defence Force, and so on and so forth. I mean, there's even evidence to show that people like the Vikings had female warriors, while the American Indian tribes had not just female but intersex and transgender warriors; and the Tunisian Berbers who fought the Arab conquests were mostly led by women as they were a matriarchal culture.

Sure, on average looking at a normal distribution curve, men are statistically stronger than the statistical average woman, however, I would not like to try and fight any woman with even a modicum of training in any martial art, and the curves themselves will show you quite clearly that a proportion of women will equal or better the strongest men.

In terms of modern combat, and then extrapolating a mere 38,000 years into the future... 38,000 years ago Humanity was in the early stone age, and Neanderthals had been extinct for roughly 2,000 years. In Rogue Trader, it is explicitly stated that High Gothic and Low Gothic are totally alien languages that bear no resemblance to anything spoken or written today, and they are 'translated' into Latin and English respectively for our ease of understanding as players. To say that we can discuss "average" people in the year 40,000 is nonsensical, as the descendants of genetically enhanced settler peoples from the Golden Age of Humanity would vary so wildly in their genetic makeup as to be wholly new species in many cases.

The fact is, the background of Warhammer 40,000 clearly shows a much more diverse makeup to human and alien societies than is represented on the tabletop; and it would be nice for Games Workshop to produce official models to reflect their own background.

In this post: 40k is a safe space! Chinese people, mexican people, black people! If I don't see a transgender space marine GW is bigots!

Point: "Background of the setting shows a lot of diversity, which is not represented in their models"

Counter-point: "LOL HURR"

It was a joke, the hurr was intended. Thanks for making me sound like an donkey-cave in your posts though. To take it seriously:

1. Except every Cadians guardsmen is just that, cadian. There is no race mixing on Cadians unlike Earth, so no, they shouldn't get those different heads. Space Marines are in the same boat, their geneseed changes them to the point where they all look damn near the same.

2. If GW had infinite piles of cash, sure, why not. (Dark eldar already have this though)

3. Once again, this delves into the resources and business plan/success of GW. You don't invest that much money into a faction with just a leap of faith, it is a huge risk. If GW had infinite money, sweet.

4. Again, this usually goes against the Lore and is super forceful when for some reason Ultras, Celestial Lions and White Scars team up for no other reason than the perfect ethnic trio. (Actually on is a generic white dude, scratch that, make ultras the Arabian guardsmen dudes). Once again, there is little to no race mixing in 40k so most of the minority themed armies are isolated to the point where they are the only representation of their race.

5. Too old school for the new 40k it currently is compared to RT.

6. Why would arbites be in the same book as the dudes they kill?

And female warriors exist and will always exist, but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

If every race, army, and faction was represented on tabletop as in the background, it'd be literally impossible for GW to produce that ridiclous amount of models. Therefore they pick flagship factions and armies, and run with those. (Cadians, Ultras, etc.)

1. I dunno about Cadians. In the lore when the IG is sent to other planets or systems to fight, they get their reinforcements from the locals since waiting around for reinforcements from your homeworld takes too long. Since they also get reinforcements from the offspring of their female members who have to be equipped uniformly, having an old Cadian Regiment that's been to a lot of different war zones over the years could quite easily incorporate a wide variety of human races while still having everyone born on Cadia from Cadian parents being white. Basically IG regiments that get sent to different warzones only get more diverse over the years, even if their originating planet is wholly uniform.

Space Marines though, which of their implants actually changes their skin color? GW's gone into quite a bit of detail about Space Marine implants so this information should be there.

2/general if GW had infinite cash: If GW had infinite cash they wouldn't need to make models anymore and they could hyperinflate Earth's entire economy to the point everything is worth infinity dollars but every person also has infinity dollars. Stay away from the word "infinity" when you don't ACTUALLY mean it.

4. Sisters of Battle are recruited from a huge number of different worlds, trained at a central facility, and then divided up into various Orders. There's a good lore case for Sisters of Battle having a very diverse racial makeup since any Sisters of Battle order could and often would actually be composed of Sisters of Battle from many different planets. I'd still like to see the lore about which implant changes a Space Marine's facial structure, hair type and skin color though. And I already mentioned why a diverse IG regiment is an inevitability regardless of its origins.

5. More alien races never hurts in a game where over HALF the factions are various flavors of Imperium.

6. Because none of the individual factions is big enough in terms of different units to warrant its own Codex, and this lets two people split a Codex while still playing different factions. And the concept of sales in general shows that if you sometimes let people save some money on their purchases (but not always) they ARE going to buy enough of it to actually make your profits go up. The entire concept of Black Friday in the USA is based on this idea.

1. Look at the salamanders. Not every recruit just starts like that, the geneseed changes a space marine more than just becoming a better soldier.

2. Most Cadians stay home defending the gate though. When regiments get sent out, I doubt they wonder far from home and need such re population. Even then, it takes at least 19 years to get a fully functional soldier. Armies tend not to stick around that long.

3. Don't be like that. We won't get anywhere if you just be a smart ass.

4. Sure, but what if none of those planets have inhabitants with a pigment that minorities have?

5. Except it does when the race sounds like it more belongs on a cereal box than a sci fi Gothic game, and the models look like over grown lizards.

6. So to save Timmy some cash they break the lore and faction-making pattern and let arbites be allied with Genestealer cults and chaos worshippers? No thanks.

Black Friday doesn't work the same for GeeDubs. It's such a small market that they can't sell bulk like that because one player probably needs like 100 space marine tops. There's a reason why they charge you what they do now. They get their profits back from that one tactical squad for much more than what it was worth so they can make big bucks faster.

**Pouncey**

Insectum7 wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

That's not being argued. Men, as a whole, are stronger. But because we're talking about the entire breadth of humanity, there will be many women who are stronger than many men.

And individual strength is just not necessarily that important on the grand scheme of things, when it comes to winning wars. It's useful if you are in a position to take advantage of it, but if you aren't, you just do something else.

Actually the percentage of Imperial citizens in the IG is so low that they wouldn't be hurting for numbers if the IoM declared only one gender or the other is to be allowed in. They have sufficient numbers to field a full Militarum of one gender or the other with many, MANY extras. If they ALL got killed at once it wouldn't even put a huge dent in the Imperium's total population. Because losing 20 trillion is survivable when it's only 1/1000th of your population. It would be like something that killed 7 million humans IRL. We'd certainly lament the loss but it wouldn't make humanity endangered.

...and that's when I realized that the Imperium overall isn't putting as high of a percentage of its citizens into the military as modern-day Earth is.

But really, the IoM decided both genders should be able to die for the Imperium. And that's the way it is.

**ShieldBrother**

Insectum7 wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

That's not being argued. Men, as a whole, are stronger. But because we're talking about the entire breadth of humanity, there will be many women who are stronger than many men.

And individual strength is just not necessarily that important on the grand scheme of things, when it comes to winning wars. It's useful if you are in a position to take advantage of it, but if you aren't, you just do something else.

And there will still be many, many, many more men stronger than those women. Accept it.

Sure, strength isn't what wins wars, but it sure as hell helps. Insert analogy here where a stronger person would win over a weaker one. (Plenty of those)

**Pouncey**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

That's not being argued. Men, as a whole, are stronger. But because we're talking about the entire breadth of humanity, there will be many women who are stronger than many men.

And individual strength is just not necessarily that important on the grand scheme of things, when it comes to winning wars. It's useful if you are in a position to take advantage of it, but if you aren't, you just do something else.

And there will still be many, many, many more men stronger than those women. Accept it.

Sure, strength isn't what wins wars, but it sure as hell helps. Insert analogy here where a stronger person would win over a weaker one. (Plenty of those)

Two people aiming guns at each other. First one to actually deliver a fatal shot wins. Advantage in strength not necessary whatsoever and completely irrelevant to the outcome. The man's bigger physical size even makes him easier to hit.

That is the situation IG are intended to be in.

Also I'd still like to hear what you think about the fact women are better at handling pain than men, which would be an advantage in the AM since they're expected to get badly, BADLY wounded and keep on fighting until they actually die.

**Peregrine**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
1. Except every Cadians guardsmen is just that, cadian. There is no race mixing on Cadians unlike Earth, so no, they shouldn't get those different heads. Space Marines are in the same boat, their geneseed changes them to the point where they all look damn near the same.

First of all "Cadian" is a planet of origin, not a race. You could call guardsmen from our planet "Earthians" and they'd still have a mixed-race pool to recruit from.

Second, the Cadian guardsmen are intended to represent the standard Cadian-pattern equipment used by countless other regiments, not just guardsmen from Cadia. So even if you buy the argument that all Cadians are white men the same models should still be painted differently to represent regiments from other planets.

2. If GW had infinite piles of cash, sure, why not. (Dark eldar already have this though)

Cash is not an issue. Having 7 male torsos/heads and 3 female torsos/heads in every box instead of 10 male torsos/heads does not cost any extra money.

You don't invest that much money into a faction with just a leap of faith, it is a huge risk.

Unless of course you're making AoS, admech, deathwatch, etc. GW makes new factions all the time, this is not an excuse for neglecting SoB.

And female warriors exist and will always exist, but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

Honestly, who gives a

about this realism argument? This is a setting where genetically-engineered super soldiers literally open portals through hell to go fight sentient fungus monsters that talk like rioting British soccer fans, while giant walking cathedrals and anime robots fight in the background. Nothing else about 40k is realistic so why is it such a big deal if we don't pay enough attention to the average strength of women vs. men?

**CthuluIsSpy**

Pouncey wrote:
Advantage in strength not necessary

Not necessarily. Strength does play a role in weapon handling and recoil management, which could impact accuracy. Of course, this is assuming that all firearms are the same, and that they are the same weight, caliber, and automatic weapons make this a bit redundant; if you shoot enough rounds at a target that's out in the open, at least one is sure to hit.
There's also more to combat that firing across an open field. Probably nothing that can't be solved with exosuits, though cost and logistics would be a concern in that case.

Isn't the thing about handling pain a myth? The science hasn't really confirmed that, as there is no real way to gauge pain, other then "if I stab you here, how loudly will you scream?"
There was a study in 2009 which showed that women are more sensible to most types of pain, but social gender roles also suggests that men are less likely to report pain due to sociological conditioning, and pain is still a subjective experience.

**Peregrine**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not necessarily. Strength does play a role in weapon handling and recoil management, which could impact accuracy. Of course, this is assuming that all firearms are the same, and that they are the same weight, caliber, and automatic weapons make this a bit redundant; if you shoot enough rounds at a target that's out in the open, at least one is sure to hit.

Having your standard weapon be a laser with no recoil also helps a lot with recoil management.

**Pouncey**

Peregrine wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
1. Except every Cadians guardsmen is just that, cadian. There is no race mixing on Cadians unlike Earth, so no, they shouldn't get those different heads. Space Marines are in the same boat, their geneseed changes them to the point where they all look damn near the same.

First of all "Cadian" is a planet of origin, not a race. You could call guardsmen from our planet "Earthians" and they'd still have a mixed-race pool to recruit from.

Second, the Cadian guardsmen are intended to represent the standard Cadian-pattern equipment used by countless other regiments, not just guardsmen from Cadia. So even if you buy the argument that all Cadians are white men the same models should still be painted differently to represent regiments from other planets.

Third, since Cadian regiments get sent out of Cadia to fight in other wars at times, and the IG gets reinforcements from the local population instead of waiting for reinforcements from home, a Cadian regiment that fought on a lot of planets would naturally end up with a decent mix of planets' populations in it, not just Cadians.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
Advantage in strength not necessary

Not necessarily. Strength does play a role in weapon handling and recoil management, which could impact accuracy. Of course, this is assuming that all firearms are the same, and that they are the same weight, caliber, and automatic weapons make this a bit redundant; if you shoot enough rounds at a target that's out in the open, at least one is sure to hit.

A standard IG rifle or side arm is a laser weapon.

Lasers have no recoil but deal with large amounts of heating-up inside the weapon instead (since you're essentially swapping kinetic energy for heat energy)

Isn't the thing about handling pain a myth? The science hasn't really confirmed that, as there is no real way to gauge pain, other then "if I stab you here, how loudly will you scream?"

Could be. I'll drop it, but I've also heard that profanity increases the human ability to tolerate pain.

**ShieldBrother**

Peregrine wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
1. Except every Cadians guardsmen is just that, cadian. There is no race mixing on Cadians unlike Earth, so no, they shouldn't get those different heads. Space Marines are in the same boat, their geneseed changes them to the point where they all look damn near the same.

First of all "Cadian" is a planet of origin, not a race. You could call guardsmen from our planet "Earthians" and they'd still have a mixed-race pool to recruit from.

Second, the Cadian guardsmen are intended to represent the standard Cadian-pattern equipment used by countless other regiments, not just guardsmen from Cadia. So even if you buy the argument that all Cadians are white men the same models should still be painted differently to represent regiments from other planets.

2. If GW had infinite piles of cash, sure, why not. (Dark eldar already have this though)

Cash is not an issue. Having 7 male torsos/heads and 3 female torsos/heads in every box instead of 10 male torsos/heads does not cost any extra money.

You don't invest that much money into a faction with just a leap of faith, it is a huge risk.

Unless of course you're making AoS, admech, deathwatch, etc. GW makes new factions all the time, this is not an excuse for neglecting SoB.

And female warriors exist and will always exist, but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

Honestly, who gives a about this realism argument? This is a setting where genetically-engineered super soldiers literally open portals through hell to go fight sentient fungus monsters that talk like rioting British soccer fans, while giant walking cathedrals and anime robots fight in the background. Nothing else about 40k is realistic so why is it such a big deal if we don't pay enough attention to the average strength of women vs. men?

Alright then, let's just call all Cadians white people. Cadia is a planet of white people. Better?

And even if they are recruited off world, that world could still be populated by white people.

No it doesn't cost money to include those things, but it does cost a lot of money to make the sculpts and produce them. You know they aren't free, right?

And again, GW obviously made a conscious decision Sob should be ignored. You have to trust them that they have good reason for this, and even if you don't, it won't change the fact of the matter.

I do. Suspension of disbelief can only go so far for certain things. "But muh physics" most people don't see a walker and say "hey, how is that thing standing?" But most people do know that men are stronger than women, so when they see a women out performing a man (assuming both are fit) they might scratch their heads.

Pouncey wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
but you are literally lying to yourself if you don't think men are stronger than women. Have you ever heard of testosterone? The thing that gives you a lot of muscles? Men have a lot of it, women don't. Figure out the rest for yourself.

That's not being argued. Men, as a whole, are stronger. But because we're talking about the entire breadth of humanity, there will be many women who are stronger than many men.

And individual strength is just not necessarily that important on the grand scheme of things, when it comes to winning wars. It's useful if you are in a position to take advantage of it, but if you aren't, you just do something else.

And there will still be many, many, many more men stronger than those women. Accept it.

Sure, strength isn't what wins wars, but it sure as hell helps. Insert analogy here where a stronger person would win over a weaker one. (Plenty of those)

Two people aiming guns at each other. First one to actually deliver a fatal shot wins. Advantage in strength not necessary whatsoever and completely irrelevant to the outcome. The man's bigger physical size even makes him easier to hit.

That is the situation IG are intended to be in.

Also I'd still like to hear what you think about the fact women are better at handling pain than men, which would be an advantage in the AM since they're expected to get badly, BADLY wounded and keep on fighting until they actually die.

Same situation. BUT...Oh gak, my Las guns out of ammo, she missed, I close the distance and I'm now in melee combat. As I said, it doesn't matter what their intended environment is, mine is on a bed of roses drinking champagne, but not everything goes as planned.

I'd like to see the proof of that, and if it's true, how better they are than men. If a woman can hold one more second than a man could before blacking out, we'll that'd be a novelty at best.

**Ashiraya**

Eh, already mentioned.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Eh, supposedly lasguns do have recoil. according to same sources. Apparently the laser does have a bit of mass, at least according to Abnett, so there would be recoil.
Of course, keep in mind that GW / Black Library can't into science, so take that into consideration.

If they do have recoil, it would probably be lower than that of a conventional firearm.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Peregrine wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Not necessarily. Strength does play a role in weapon handling and recoil management, which could impact accuracy. Of course, this is assuming that all firearms are the same, and that they are the same weight, caliber, and automatic weapons make this a bit redundant; if you shoot enough rounds at a target that's out in the open, at least one is sure to hit.

Having your standard weapon be a laser with no recoil also helps a lot with recoil management.

Among Imperial Guard, yes. Among PDF, no. Apparently they are armed with autoguns. No one cares about the PDF though

**Peregrine**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Apparently the laser does have a bit of mass, at least according to Abnett, so there would be recoil.
Of course, keep in mind that GW / Black Library can't into science, so take that into consideration.

I think that second part is the explanation. Lasers having recoil makes no sense at all, we can dismiss that as author stupidity.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Alright then, let's just call all Cadians white people. Cadia is a planet of white people. Better?

And even if they are recruited off world, that world could still be populated by white people.

Why does it need to be an all-white army? Why do we need to come up with excuses so we can have an army that looks like a KKK rally? Why is this so important to you?

No it doesn't cost money to include those things, but it does cost a lot of money to make the sculpts and produce them. You know they aren't free, right?

GW's entire business model is built on constantly making new sculpts. If you're going to be making new sculpts anyway it doesn't cost anything extra just because they're female.

And again, GW obviously made a conscious decision Sob should be ignored. You have to trust them that they have good reason for this, and even if you don't, it won't change the fact of the matter.

Lol what? Since when has "trust that GW's business decisions are sensible" been a good idea?

I do. Suspension of disbelief can only go so far for certain things. "But muh physics" most people don't see a walker and say "hey, how is that thing standing?" But most people do know that men are stronger than women, so when they see a women out performing a man (assuming both are fit) they might scratch their heads.

Most people also know that sentient fungus monsters that talk like rioting British soccer fans led by a warboss named Margaret Thatcher are not terribly realistic, and yet they're a core part of the setting that most people accept. If "women that are as strong as men" is the thing that breaks your suspension of disbelief then that's a problem with you.

**Pouncey**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:
Alright then, let's just call all Cadians white people. Cadia is a planet of white people. Better?

...You're the one arguing that it is, not us.

And even if they are recruited off world, that world could still be populated by white people.

Yup, and the WH40k universe is vast and old enough with millions of IG regiments being shuffled around all the time for ten thousand years that the likelihood of a Cadian Regiment including a lot of non-Cadians and non-white people is almost guaranteed.

And you don't just have to theme your army around the scant few battles, wars, and Regiments that have been confirmed. You could invent your own, and if you do it's very, VERY easily to justify a Cadian Regiment with tons of non-white people while still being completely within the lore.

No it doesn't cost money to include those things, but it does cost a lot of money to make the sculpts and produce them. You know they aren't free, right?

Yup. So the idea should be, "Hey, next time you update those things, you should make them lore-accurate." Not that they have to update them right away. Just the next time they do, they should include these changes. Because they will eventually update them.

And they can offer conversion kits in the meantime which they can even keep selling after the update for people who want more female IG than the kits ordinarily allow.

And again, GW obviously made a conscious decision Sob should be ignored. You have to trust them that they have good reason for this, and even if you don't, it won't change the fact of the matter.

Having heard descriptions of how GW operates from a business perspective, and having read a blog from a higher-up business guy in a very large worldwide company about how GW's recent practices do make sense if you consider them as preparation to sell off the company, only for him to watch the higher-up at GW in charge of selling off GW at a high stock price and leave the company, and then ultimately conclude GW's business practices make NO sense whatsoever...

No, trusting that GW has a good reason for what they're doing is not reasonable. Because they've repeatedly displayed they have no clue what they're doing even from a basic perspective of "making money".

I do. Suspension of disbelief can only go so far for certain things. "But muh physics" most people don't see a walker and say "hey, how is that thing standing?" But most people do know that men are stronger than women, so when they see a women out performing a man (assuming both are fit) they might scratch their heads.

I wouldn't. Not all men and women are average. In fact, the majority are not If you saw a woman who was physically larger and muscular than the small, weedy man she was fighting, would you conclude that the man's obviously going to win in a melee fight because men are, on average, stronger? No, you'd assume the woman was going to kick his butt. And there's a place for both of those people in the military, not just one or the other.

Because the differences between two individuals is more important than their genders in a question of who would win in a fight.

For a visual on this, look at Overwatch's characters. If you pitted Zarya against Roadhog in a fistfight where you're only allowed to do melee, Zarya would realistically kick his butt. Even though he's a man and she's a woman.

Same situation. BUT...Oh gak, my Las guns out of ammo, she missed, I close the distance and I'm now in melee combat. As I said, it doesn't matter what their intended environment is, mine is on a bed of roses drinking champagne, but not everything goes as planned.

If the IG's guns are out of ammo, they're pretty much fethed anyways. They're not going to be winning any battles in a knife fight.

I'd like to see the proof of that, and if it's true, how better they are than men. If a woman can hold one more second than a man could before blacking out, we'll that'd be a novelty at best.

One second is enough to fire five extra shots with a 300 RPM weapon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Peregrine wrote:
Why does it need to be an all-white army? Why do we need to come up with excuses so we can have an army that looks like a KKK rally? Why is this so important to you?

More to the point, what would stop anyone who actually wants an all-white army (without going all KKK) for whatever reason from actually making their army such?

**Insectum7**

#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Same situation. BUT...Oh gak, my Las guns out of ammo, she missed, I close the distance and I'm now in melee combat.

Nope, you're shot dead by the soldier next to her, because they didn't have any problem with women in the military, and their army is bigger.

Soviet forces were individually far inferior to the invading Germans, but it just didn't matter in the end. The Imperial Guard is often the same way, they just want meat for the grinder.

Bringing it out of the real world, them Tau are pretty weak in CC, but that's why they bring bigger guns.

**Pouncey**

Insectum7 wrote:
#1ShieldBrother3++ wrote:

Same situation. BUT...Oh gak, my Las guns out of ammo, she missed, I close the distance and I'm now in melee combat.

Nope, you're shot dead by the soldier next to her, because they didn't have any problem with women in the military, and their army is bigger.

Soviet forces were individually far inferior to the invading Germans, but it just didn't matter in the end. The Imperial Guard is often the same way, they just want meat for the grinder.

Bringing it out of the real world, them Tau are pretty weak in CC, but that's why they bring bigger guns.

Personally I really like that he's intent on forcing the IG into one-on-one fist or knife fights when the IG NEVER go up against anyone 1v1 and very rarely with equal numbers as an army.

Also you could point out that the average is really just an average, and the vast majority of cases are NOT in fact average.

If you take any 500 random men and any 500 random women, and measure out their heights, weights and physical strength (however you'd measure that) you would likely in fact find that on average, the men are taller, heavier, and stronger than the women. But you'd also find that the vast majority of women do not meet the female average and the vast majority of men do not meet the male average. Both sides will have almost everyone deviating from the norm to some degree. And if you compared every single 1v1 matchup, you would find that in almost every case, their individual characteristics differ enough that one would likely beat the other in a fight. You'd have women beating other women, men beating other men, men beating women, and yes, in fact you would have women beating men, because there would be a large number of cases where a particular woman is taller, heavier and stronger than the man she's facing in the theoretical match-up.

Very, VERY few people are actually average.

Oh, and if you took only the person who could beat anyone in a fight, you'd end up with an army of exactly ONE person. That won't do for an army, so you have to create a minimum set of standards for physical and mental criteria. It is impossible to set those standards high enough to exclude women entirely without also reducing your numbers to the point your army that relies on mass numbers is useless, and you wouldn't want to do so anyways because you don't actually need your troops to be that physically strong.

So realistically, JUST LIKE in real life, you end up with a set of physical and mental criteria that many, MANY women do in fact meet.

Which means, in fact, that the women who meet the IG's standards for recruitment are by definition, fully qualified.