Manchu wrote:
@Pouncey: a neat quip, but not a counterpoint.

 warhead01 wrote:
Ok, Looks like it's just called Victoria Miniatures.
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/

I have had them book marked for a few years but got rid of all my Mordian Iron Guard ...maybe two years ago.
They have some really nice models that near enough match the Iron Guard line.

 Pouncey wrote:
Do you see those models as being men with female heads?

So do I.
You know what I don't see though?
Men with female heads.

 warhead01 wrote:
So I'm not really sure what your really saying.

 warhead01 wrote:

So do I.
You know what I don't see though?
Men with female heads.

I'm not sure if your trying to argue something with me or if what I said confused you.
What ever we both see I don't like them and wouldn't own them.
If you like them and would own them than that's fine.

Your comment comes off as a little snappy and rude.
So I'm not really sure what your really saying.

 Manchu wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Do you see those models as being men with female heads?

TBH yes, or rather, sort of - there is something similar to the "uncanny valley" effect going on with them to my eyes, probably because I am so familiar with the pseudo-human proportions of the ubiquitous Cadian sculpt. When I look at them, can tell that I'm being tricked, as it were. Put it another way, the first and foremost thing I think when looking at those conversions is, hey that's probably about the best anyone could achieve as far as a stop gap conversion goes.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Something I've been thinking of lately - if one wanted to incorporate some female minis into the Space Marine lines without contradicting the ridiculous fluff about only men can be Space Marines, you could have units comprised of chapter auxiliaries.

The lore for the Space Marine fleets in Battlefleet Gothic states that auxiliaries are better equipped and trained than Imperial Navy crews, which is part of the reason why SM ships have bonuses to boarding actions. So, there's some official background material supporting the idea.

The justification could be that SM chapters are equipping their serfs to help defend their fortress monasteries and home worlds, and from that they begin to employ them in other battles in roles that don't necessarily require full Space Marines. Vehicle crewmen leap to mind, as does long range supporting fire. I'm picturing basically a stormtrooper's statline, with basic equipment being carapace armor and bolter, maybe with some getting power armor.

The Space Wolves in particular I could picture getting a unit of Shield Maidens. What, the boys all grow up fierce and aggressive, but the women are timid little baby-makers?

 Pouncey wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Something I've been thinking of lately - if one wanted to incorporate some female minis into the Space Marine lines without contradicting the ridiculous fluff about only men can be Space Marines, you could have units comprised of chapter auxiliaries.

The lore for the Space Marine fleets in Battlefleet Gothic states that auxiliaries are better equipped and trained than Imperial Navy crews, which is part of the reason why SM ships have bonuses to boarding actions. So, there's some official background material supporting the idea.

The justification could be that SM chapters are equipping their serfs to help defend their fortress monasteries and home worlds, and from that they begin to employ them in other battles in roles that don't necessarily require full Space Marines. Vehicle crewmen leap to mind, as does long range supporting fire. I'm picturing basically a stormtrooper's statline, with basic equipment being carapace armor and bolter, maybe with some getting power armor.

The Space Wolves in particular I could picture getting a unit of Shield Maidens. What, the boys all grow up fierce and aggressive, but the women are timid little baby-makers?

Similar to how a Sisters of Battle army could (and used to) have a cheap Troops choice representing a mob of riled-up civilians led by a Preacher that includes a lot of men, without compromising the lore that Sisters of Battle are only female?

Yes, I could see that working very, very well.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Something I've been thinking of lately - if one wanted to incorporate some female minis into the Space Marine lines without contradicting the ridiculous fluff about only men can be Space Marines, you could have units comprised of chapter auxiliaries.

The lore for the Space Marine fleets in Battlefleet Gothic states that auxiliaries are better equipped and trained than Imperial Navy crews, which is part of the reason why SM ships have bonuses to boarding actions. So, there's some official background material supporting the idea.

The justification could be that SM chapters are equipping their serfs to help defend their fortress monasteries and home worlds, and from that they begin to employ them in other battles in roles that don't necessarily require full Space Marines. Vehicle crewmen leap to mind, as does long range supporting fire. I'm picturing basically a stormtrooper's statline, with basic equipment being carapace armor and bolter, maybe with some getting power armor.

The Space Wolves in particular I could picture getting a unit of Shield Maidens. What, the boys all grow up fierce and aggressive, but the women are timid little baby-makers?

Similar to how a Sisters of Battle army could (and used to) have a cheap Troops choice representing a mob of riled-up civilians led by a Preacher that includes a lot of men, without compromising the lore that Sisters of Battle are only female?

Yes, I could see that working very, very well.

I think such a mob of auxiliaries would suit SoB far more than it would SM. If such a unit were to exist, it shouldn't be a compulsory Troops choice, and SoB should have it first.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
Something I've been thinking of lately - if one wanted to incorporate some female minis into the Space Marine lines without contradicting the ridiculous fluff about only men can be Space Marines, you could have units comprised of chapter auxiliaries.

The lore for the Space Marine fleets in Battlefleet Gothic states that auxiliaries are better equipped and trained than Imperial Navy crews, which is part of the reason why SM ships have bonuses to boarding actions. So, there's some official background material supporting the idea.

The justification could be that SM chapters are equipping their serfs to help defend their fortress monasteries and home worlds, and from that they begin to employ them in other battles in roles that don't necessarily require full Space Marines. Vehicle crewmen leap to mind, as does long range supporting fire. I'm picturing basically a stormtrooper's statline, with basic equipment being carapace armor and bolter, maybe with some getting power armor.

The Space Wolves in particular I could picture getting a unit of Shield Maidens. What, the boys all grow up fierce and aggressive, but the women are timid little baby-makers?

Similar to how a Sisters of Battle army could (and used to) have a cheap Troops choice representing a mob of riled-up civilians led by a Preacher that includes a lot of men, without compromising the lore that Sisters of Battle are only female?

Yes, I could see that working very, very well.

I think such a mob of auxiliaries would suit SoB far more than it would SM. If such a unit were to exist, it shouldn't be a compulsory Troops choice, and SoB should have it first.

To be clear, I was describing a how the Sisters of Battle have a unit in the lore, and formerly in the tabletop game, which includes men without affecting the Sororitas being female-only. I wasn't suggesting that that particular unit should be given to Space Marines.

I'm sorry for the confusion. : (

You said you see Cadians with female heads.

Cadians are not male by default.

Your statement was akin to saying you don't see a female American soldier, but instead an American soldier with a female head.

 warhead01 wrote:

You said you see Cadians with female heads.

Cadians are not male by default.

Your statement was akin to saying you don't see a female American soldier, but instead an American soldier with a female head.

I think your missed the point of what I was saying. Cadians is a selection of Models made by Games Workshop. They're still to tall and too large collectively.
Might as well not have the female heads at all.
I will say that's almost a close fit to the appearance of female soldiers in full battle rattle. Still not a fan of those models.
Your last bit was kinda funny, I did spend 10 years in the US Army I would either refer to soldiers as Soldiers, Service member, by rank, some times as Hey you or by derogatory terms of endearment not forum appropriate.
I know I was referred to in the same way as well.

 Pouncey wrote:

Similar to how a Sisters of Battle army could (and used to) have a cheap Troops choice representing a mob of riled-up civilians led by a Preacher that includes a lot of men, without compromising the lore that Sisters of Battle are only female?

Yes, I could see that working very, very well.

I chose the term "American soldier" specifically because of your country icon. Had you been posting from Canada I'd've said "Canadian soldier."

Also, I have a bit of an annoying habit of responding to exactly what was said. For example, if you tell me I can sign something, "Anywhere," and don't specify an exception, you had damned well better actually mean ANYWHERE, because I am going to take that word literally and sign on the line you don't want me to sign on because it's easier to sign my name on a straight line than in open space on the paper. It's a trait I get honestly from my dad.

So when you tell me that they look like Cadians with female heads, I am likely to take it to mean that they look like Cadians with female heads, and since female Cadians are what we're going for, and the term Cadian refers to citizenship of a planet and does not imply gender, and thus consider the objective to have been met.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

Similar to how a Sisters of Battle army could (and used to) have a cheap Troops choice representing a mob of riled-up civilians led by a Preacher that includes a lot of men, without compromising the lore that Sisters of Battle are only female?

Yes, I could see that working very, very well.

I'm hesitant to use the word "mob", but essentially yes. Again, based on the BFG lore, I'm picturing SM serf auxiliaria being at least as well trained as Imperial Guardsmen, and probably as well as Vets. So, I'm not talking the SM equivalent of Cultists here, but rather units of human servants who have been indoctrinated into the chapter's belief structure and have the skills and discipline one would expect.

Which is fine, we're beating a dead horse now.
Aside from my dislike of Cadian miniatures, if they had helmets they'd be much better models in my opinion. Despite my other gripes about them. The more pointed chin would, I think create the illusion.
I'm sure some one is building and painting them right now with aspirations of table top domination. And more power to them for their dedication to the hobby.

Christ i go on vacation, come back and this gak is still going on?! What are we even arguing about still?

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
This has been an.... interesting thread to skim through. Okay I lied, I saw mass-arguments on page 1 so I skipped to page 18 and it was still the same argument. Enough Said.

My only random comments on that:

Spoiler:

I think that some of those female cadian conversions were neat, some needed work around the neck. That is, if you assume that the reason there are no nips poking out and deforming the armor is because they are actually wearing standard issue armor and padded clothing. I am pretty sure American military doesn't make Flak-Bras either.

------

I could see female heads being added to sprues for IG, but as someone said in the Plastic Sisters thread, there are methods for the passionate folks to satisfy their desire already through conversions and kitbashing.

I feel like Space Marines would have to remain sexist pigs purely from the standpoint that they should remain true to their 20-year old fluff. Female Marines was written off in 4th ed because the first attempted females all died right?

In the end, I'd rather they give love to non-convertible things like a new/trashed Xeno race. Like.... hairy General Grievous as an entire race.

Hell, I want the Space Marine / Adeptus Astartes Codex to give back the Doctrines special rules to the Imperial Guard / Astra Militarum! That was the way to play IG, Close Order Drills and Sharpshooters to represent a Napoleonic Wars regiment. (But accurate). I want clans of Orkz again, I want Ulthwe special rules! Space Marines are just about the only ones to get the amazing-treatment? Pls

I'd like to see diversity in the existing codexes (For the different variants of the factions) more so than models. I can convert models, but I cannot convert rules without getting kicked out of official events!

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Honestly, head swaps would be really all you could do/need but even still you would not notice unless you pointed it out is the problem.

In combat armor, well it would not matter because thats standard issue so boobs would be hidden.

The only diffrence would be heads which, not sure what they could actually do model wise, headless with longer hair? Pony tails? A sharper jaw line to distinguish its a female?

I would not be apposed to female head bits being in the kits, but really i think guard are the only ones that could need it and even then, it would be so hard to tell the difference.

So not against it, but not really worth it IMO if it means a price hike and a new mold which is not a cheap thing to do for GW just to make a small group happy. so from a business standpoint on it, i would be against it, from a modeling aspect sure why not.

Gen.Steiner wrote:
I mean, in all honesty, Forgeworld could knock out a Cadian/Catachan conversion kit with a month's work or so, probably? New torsos, heads and arms, to fit on the Cadians, and a similar set in singlets and waistcoat-style flak vests for the Catachans. Given that they already did similar sets for Cadian Veterans with Shotguns, why shouldn't we look to Forgeworld to provide the answer to this?

 Pouncey wrote:
Personally, I do prefer plastic models to resin ones, so I would prefer GW to do it, but you raise a very valid point since most 40k gamers don't have the same aversion to resin models that I do.

Gen.Steiner wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Personally, I do prefer plastic models to resin ones, so I would prefer GW to do it, but you raise a very valid point since most 40k gamers don't have the same aversion to resin models that I do.

Yeah, I mean, I'd rather they were in the standard plastic box sets too, but if we're ever to see them I think that Forgeworld are the most likely to produce them. I don't know why they haven't already to be honest. I'll send them an e-mail.

Dear Sir/Madam,

My name is REDACTED. I have been a Games Workshop fan for over 20 years, and throughout that time have been an avid Imperial Guard player. For some time now I have been wondering why no attempt ever appears to have been made to produce a conversion kit for Cadian or Catachan plastics to allow players to field female Imperial Guard troopers? With the honourable exceptions of the metal Catachan Grenade Launcher, Rocket Girl, Warrior Woman, a Tanith trooper, a rather cheese-cakey Commissar from the early 1990s and a Rogue Trader Imperial Army trooper or two, the Imperial Army, now Imperial Guard, has been dominated by male figures.

This is fine as far as it goes, but I and many others would appreciate the ability to field Guard armies with both male and female troopers in, both in reflection of the official background (see the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts series, not to mention units like the Dneipr Regiments in the 3rd Edition Guard Codex), and in reflection of a historical and current reality that has seen many women serve with distinction in military forces from the Scythians through the Dahomey to the Red Army and on into the modern British Armed Forces (among others).

I have in the past asked Forgeworld this question, but never received an answer of any sort. It seems to me that a 'test set' of, say, ten female heads and torsos, along the lines of the Cadian Veterans with Shotguns or Cadians in Respirators, would be of interest to a great many Imperial Guard - and Chaos Renegade - players.

I look forwards to your response.

Yours faithfully,

REDACTED