Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

After buying an airbrush I purchased a bottle of black airbrush primer from Vallejo and loved it. It goes on super smooth and dries to a great finish. Because of the results I had gotten, I went ahead and bought a large bottle of the grey primer. When I got around to using it the results were horrible. It would pool in the recesses and left a rubbery, almost tacky finish. I had seen youtuber's use it with it acting the same as the black version, so i'm not sure if I had just gotten a bad bottle. Any of you have similar problems?

Sounds like a bad bottle.

I have Vallejo grey primer and I don't like it, but I don't have a problem with it leaving a tacky finish, I haven't tried the black.

Vallejo pu primer is terrible, I don't use it at all any more

could be a bad batch. i usually thin the primer as well with vallejo thinner. I only every had problem with there white.

Vallejo primers are really bad. I used their both spray can and brush on primer and the results are below average. Avoid this primer.

Used the grey spray can and bottle primer (brush) and never had any issues,

I have had no issue with the black primer. I airbrush it and it works great for me.

I haven't tried the vallejo PU black because the PU grey was so unimpressive. The big issues for me were it takes ages to cure, it isn't very strong, doesn't dry hard enough to sand well and I'd label its levelling capacity as "meh, okay" rather than "good".

I love my Vallejo primer. I use the lt grey polyurethane one that ends up drying a lot more like a white. I can use it in the airbrush or as a brushon. I don't use the black, I haven't found the mix to be as good as the grey.

With the high humidity here in GA, there is no other way to prime (ie rattle can priming will only get ruined, turning splotchy and doing other funky things).

@AllSeeingSkink - just wondering, why would you try to sand primer? It always comes off in my experience if you do that anyway. I don't use a primer to level things either myself. I did start using black gesso instead, if that's what I was trying to do tho. Just wondering.

When I mentioned leveling properties, I mean how well the paint levels itself rather than trying to level out flaws. A paint that levels well will give a more consistent surface finish with less effort.

As for sanding, I rarely sand infantry, but frequently sand vehicles. You glue the vehicle together and then fill the gaps, you then spray it with a primer and if any gaps of imperfections are visible, you sand them out. You either sand all the way through the primer if the flaw was large or if it was small sometimes you can get away with not sanding though the primer.

Less relevant to wargaming, but if you're ever painting something that needs a high gloss finish, like a model or a car for example, it's often good practice to lightly sand between each coat of paint, including the primer, as any roughness or flaws in intermediate layers means a lot more work at the end to get a high gloss finish.

If I'm airbrushing a primer, I use gunze lacquer primers thinned with self levelling thinner. Being a lacquer it's a bit more annoying to use, BUT it's superior to Vallejo PU in pretty much every way. It dries faster, it's tougher, paint seems to stick to it better, it's sandable and it self levels beautifully. You can even use it as a gap filler by building up a few layers and then sanding it back.

If I can't be bothered airbrushing the lacquer primer I just use rattle cans, rattle can primers typically dry much faster and much tougher than vallejo PU primer.

Its my primer of choice for application via an airbrush, it is not as durable as a rattle can primer but my miniatures get the kid glove treatment anyway.

I use it because of the excellent finish it provides and its detail retaining qualities.

If I had unvarnished miniatures bouncing around in one of those foam cases on a regular basis I would avoid it. Likewise I can't imagine sanding it ever being a pleasant experience.

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
Its my primer of choice for application via an airbrush, it is not as durable as a rattle can primer but my miniatures get the kid glove treatment anyway.

I use it because of the excellent finish it provides and its detail retaining qualities.

If I had unvarnished miniatures bouncing around in one of those foam cases on a regular basis I would avoid it. Likewise I can't imagine sanding it ever being a pleasant experience.

When it comes to excellent finish and detail retaining qualities, Gunze lacquer is better on the former and at least equal on the latter.

For detail retention Tamiya spray cans are actually extremely good, even if they don't spray on great they'll still level out brilliantly and shrink down to a thin layer that hugs detail really well. But that said I don't like using it as a base for hairy brushing over, though it's a good base if you plan to spray another colour before hairy brushing (my Night Goblins are all sprayed Tamiya primer followed by a black spray and the paint on them is very tough even without a varnish).

I stopped using Vallejo PU primer because it was just inferior in every way to rattle cans or lacquer primer, I don't abuse my models either but it just seems silly to use one thing that's "acceptable" when there's other better options that are "excellent". If I could find an acrylic based primer that worked as well as the lacquer ones, I'd use it.

I use Vallejo Polyurethane Primer and have never had an issue with it, brushed or sprayed.

I have Black and White which I mix for when grey or required.

Sounds like a bad bottle or perhaps stood for too long and separated/not shaken enough.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
Its my primer of choice for application via an airbrush, it is not as durable as a rattle can primer but my miniatures get the kid glove treatment anyway.

I use it because of the excellent finish it provides and its detail retaining qualities.

If I had unvarnished miniatures bouncing around in one of those foam cases on a regular basis I would avoid it. Likewise I can't imagine sanding it ever being a pleasant experience.

When it comes to excellent finish and detail retaining qualities, Gunze lacquer is better on the former and at least equal on the latter.

For detail retention Tamiya spray cans are actually extremely good, even if they don't spray on great they'll still level out brilliantly and shrink down to a thin layer that hugs detail really well. But that said I don't like using it as a base for hairy brushing over, though it's a good base if you plan to spray another colour before hairy brushing (my Night Goblins are all sprayed Tamiya primer followed by a black spray and the paint on them is very tough even without a varnish).

I stopped using Vallejo PU primer because it was just inferior in every way to rattle cans or lacquer primer, I don't abuse my models either but it just seems silly to use one thing that's "acceptable" when there's other better options that are "excellent". If I could find an acrylic based primer that worked as well as the lacquer ones, I'd use it.

Anything you can airbrush is not inferior in every way to a rattle can. A double acting airbrush provides a better level of control than any rattle can I have ever used.

I have not used a lacquer primer so I can't comment on the comparison between them, doesn't a lacquer primer require a different cleaning agent however.

 notprop wrote:
I use Vallejo Polyurethane Primer and have never had an issue with it, brushed or sprayed.

I have Black and White which I mix for when grey or required.

Sounds like a bad bottle or perhaps stood for too long and separated/not shaken enough.

Well if you can let me know how to avoid the chipping of this primer, even after days of curing that would be great.

 dragqueeninspace wrote:
Anything you can airbrush is not inferior in every way to a rattle can. A double acting airbrush provides a better level of control than any rattle can I have ever used.

But is fine detail control something you need when applying a primer?

I thought the same thing when I first started airbrushing my primer, "gee, this control is great!". It took me a little while to realise that I don't actually need control for primers, I just need a thin layer of paint laid down quickly.

If you were using your primer coat as your base coat (ie. the first layer of paint that will be visible on the finished model) sure, control is great because it can be hard to get a rattle can to reach down in to all the deep crevices. But if you're just using your primer to give you a layer so that paint sticks and flows better over the model, the fact there's a couple of very deep crevices which have more or less paint on them isn't really a problem.

The area I concede to any airbrush primer being better than a rattle can is price. Obviously the airbrush itself is expensive, but assuming you already own one, airbrushing almost any primer is cheaper than rattle canning because you waste a lot less paint.

Though I know some people who actually decant Tamiya primer to airbrush it, I can't say I've tried that myself but I'd suggest it'd end up very cheap.

I have not used a lacquer primer so I can't comment on the comparison between them, doesn't a lacquer primer require a different cleaning agent however.

Yep, you need to use a lacquer thinner to thin the paint itself, then when cleaning I just wipe off the excess with a tissue, run a bit more lacquer thinner to get the bulk of the paint off then swap to Vallejo Airbrush Cleaner for my final clean.

Funnily I do paint with primer visible. I have an army painted using washes over a pre-shade (https://greyplastichorde.wordpress.com/orcs/).

To do this an even coat of white really helps, in addition it is much easier to put down a grainy or a smooth coat depending how you want the inks to flow over the primer.

When I started doing this I had to occasionally strip a few models due to rattle cans flooding the detail or over spraying, not to mention they make it hard to hit the nooks and crannies. Since I got the airbrush With the exception of one or two when I was learning to use the airbrush I have not had to strip any.

The last advantage of airbrushes primer over rattle cans is you can prime indoors (I'd advise an extractor anyway).

Yeah I sometimes use a white primer as my basecoat too, though funnily enough when I do, it's for speed painted models, and since they're speed painted I just use a rattle can because it's faster than airbrushing

Rattle cans do require a bit of finesse, once you learn how to use them you shouldn't be flooding details. Unless you're using certain rattle cans which are actually designed to flood detail, like putty primers for example. You do need to be careful with some automotive primers that are specifically designed to lay down thick heavy coats.

In general with rattle cans, shake well, spray from an appropriate range (most cans around the 10" mark), do quick short bursts, don't start or stop spraying while pointing directly at the model (start to the side, flick across the model, then stop once clear) and don't let the can get too cold. Do that and you won't flood the details.

You can use a rattle can indoors if you set up a good extractor. I always advise people not to do it, because most off the shelf cheapo airbrush extractors aren't good enough. But I spray rattle cans in my house by utilising a home made DIY extractor that has a 35W adjustable speed fan in it (just a cheap one from the supermarket, but it shifts a lot of air so is capable of dealing with the large cloud of fumes you get when rattle canning).

I treat rattle canning indoors the same way I treat airbrushing enamels, that is I spray in the booth then move the parts to another room and close the door while they outgas because they continue to release fumes for a while after you finish spraying.