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Alright people,

I want to know which tanks you guys and gals think are absolute must have for 30K armies. But on top of that I want to break things up into classes:

SUPER HEAVYS

HEAVY SUPPORT

LAND RAIDERS

Aside from Rhinos, I just really want to know what I need to be looking close at, there's a ton of options to choose from, but I need to plan my purchases one or two at a time.

Feel free to explain why you feel the way you do, don't pull any punches, I will say I'm looking closely at a Spartan Assault tank to start potentially, but I'm curious about what you guys feel are must haves.

Which Legion, and which Rites of War are you looking at?

beast_gts wrote:
Which Legion, and which Rites of War are you looking at?

Salamanders and Alpha Legion, I'm actually building both Armies out of four Betrayal at Calth Boxes.

I don't know anyone else playing 30K out here in AZ, but I have family (GF, her kids, and my brother) who will help with painting, and my brother and I are thinking of starting a 30K club with these two forces in decent strength of numbers.

Basically each army will have 76 Marines, and split up the heavy and special weapons, with Volkite Culverins also going to the Alpha Legion to even things out a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

beast_gts wrote:
Which Legion, and which Rites of War are you looking at?

As per rights of war, not sure yet...still reading the books, honestly I was hoping to test a few out for each army.

What you have described, suggest zero tanks of any persuasion except the aformentioned rhinos, which in many ways is the uber listing for a lot of legions.

The Spartan is best in the Land Raider class, though it is highly expensive and certainly not the only viable choice.

The best heavy support tanks are IMO the Sicaran chassis; fast, reasonably resilient and very shooty.

The best superheavy seems to be the Glaive as far as I can tell, and it also has the perk of being really badass.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The best superheavy seems to be the Glaive as far as I can tell, and it also has the perk of being really badass.

It also has the major drawback of being really expensive, so the 25% rule hurts it pretty badly when you're starting out (or if you just like playing smaller games). The Malcador and Typhon are really good because they're cheap enough to take in smaller games and can be pretty effective. The Malcador is tough, fairly well armed, and capable of fitting into even the smallest games. The Typhon costs more but that massive instant-death-to-everything blast is terrifying.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Typhon! Sorry, the Typhon is much better than the Glaive.

Peregrine wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The best superheavy seems to be the Glaive as far as I can tell, and it also has the perk of being really badass.

It also has the major drawback of being really expensive, so the 25% rule hurts it pretty badly when you're starting out (or if you just like playing smaller games). The Malcador and Typhon are really good because they're cheap enough to take in smaller games and can be pretty effective. The Malcador is tough, fairly well armed, and capable of fitting into even the smallest games. The Typhon costs more but that massive instant-death-to-everything blast is terrifying.

The problem with the Typhon is that it can't really move to be scary effective, and once you get close enough to it, it's basically useless with that 7" S10 AP1 blast. You start getting into a grey area here. Why not take a squad of Laser Destroyer Vindicators? Or a bunch of Tarantula Sentry Guns, or heck, even a Legion Support Squad in a Drop Pod? Lot's of options here, and you really can't go wrong with any of them. You could even consider fielding a second Spartan instead of a Lords of War choice. If this category has to be a tank, and you are on a budget, you could probably scrape together 2-3 Vindicators and a bunch of Lascannons and make Laser Destroyers instead.

Ashiraya wrote:Oh yeah, I forgot about the Typhon! Sorry, the Typhon is much better than the Glaive.

Not too sure on this one; The Glaive has 12 HP vs. 6, worse armor then a Typhon, but the Glaive has more weapons, Theoretically, the Glaive could one round a Typhon, while a Typhon would require at least a couple rounds of shooting unless the Typhon was upgraded with a bunch of sponsons and extra weapons to meet the same points cost as a Glaive. The Glaive can move and shoot with very little impact on it's shooting performance unlike the Typhon. Again, you can't go wrong choosing either tank, unless points cost becomes an issue.

My personal choice of Super Heavy Tank is the Fellblade. Rule of Kewl and aesthetics all make that tank my favorite in 30K with the Sicaran a close second.

The Typhon pulls ahead simply due to its ability to wipe a squad or two as well as the Deredeos they were protecting!
The Glaive is not bad but it does not eradicate a swathe of your opponent's army with each shot like the Typhon.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Typhon pulls ahead simply due to its ability to wipe a squad or two as well as the Deredeos they were protecting!
The Glaive is not bad but it does not eradicate a swathe of your opponent's army with each shot like the Typhon.

You do know how the Volkite carronade works, right? Draw a 1" wide line from the barrel out to 48", and any model this line touches is hit (flying stuff is unaffected). Combine that with the Deflagrate rule, and that can be a lot of dead models- more than what you can get under a 7" blast. If the beam hits a big model, the beam stops, but it auto inflicts 1+d3 separate hits against that model. The Typhon's gun can still scatter.

The argument could be made that the Glaive requires more skill to use, but can be even more effective then the Typhon.

SUPER HEAVYS-Typhon, S10 AP1 ignores cover is straight murder and its cheaper than the other options.

HEAVY SUPPORT-Vindicator with Laser Destroyer Array. It's cheap and it has a good gun, pre-updated redbook I would have given this one to the Sicaran but a 30 point price increase has made it merely good rather than great.

LAND RAIDERS-Spartan deliver high value units to high value targets better than anything else, so it is the most Land Raider of Land Raiders. Proteus is a good tank as well these days thanks to the points drop and twin linked hull mounted lascannon option
makes it nice in a shooting heavy mechanised list.

It is fairly easy to mitigate Glaive fire through horizontal spacing.

The Typhon requires spacing in all directions, which is a lot more awkward.

 Peregrine wrote:


It also has the major drawback of being really expensive, so the 25% rule hurts it pretty badly when you're starting out (or if you just like playing smaller games). The Malcador and Typhon are really good because they're cheap enough to take in smaller games and can be pretty effective. The Malcador is tough, fairly well armed, and capable of fitting into even the smallest games. The Typhon costs more but that massive instant-death-to-everything blast is terrifying.

Don't forget that the Malcadors are now heavy support with a squadron of three per slot...

 zedmeister wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


It also has the major drawback of being really expensive, so the 25% rule hurts it pretty badly when you're starting out (or if you just like playing smaller games). The Malcador and Typhon are really good because they're cheap enough to take in smaller games and can be pretty effective. The Malcador is tough, fairly well armed, and capable of fitting into even the smallest games. The Typhon costs more but that massive instant-death-to-everything blast is terrifying.

Don't forget that the Malcadors are now heavy support with a squadron of three per slot...

Huh. Just saw that myself. A super heavy vehicle in the heavy support section? Hmmm. I'd expect an errata on that! Good tank though, lot's of options. I'd think twice about taking a squadron of them, and would instead be looking at a squad of Vindicators or even a squad of Land Raiders instead. Maybe because the Malcadors look an awful lot like Leman Russ tanks, and the Legions had all kinds of other tanks that looked nothing like what the Imperial Guard have. When it comes to use, I don't see how a squad of Malcadors can be any better then a squad of anything else. Indeed, I'd be looking at shaving some points off and using something else. That whole subjective effectiveness vs. points argument, where everyone has an opinion.

One of the great things about 30K- all the great choices, and there are very, very few bad ones.

Best bang for your buck is generally the vindi laser destroyer.

 Tamwulf wrote:
The problem with the Typhon is that it can't really move to be scary effective, and once you get close enough to it, it's basically useless with that 7" S10 AP1 blast.

I don't know why you say that. It can still move 12" and shoot 24", it doesn't lose any firepower if it moves. And if you get close to it the Typhon can just move back 12" to clear space to put the template down.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Huh. Just saw that myself. A super heavy vehicle in the heavy support section? Hmmm. I'd expect an errata on that!

I wouldn't expect any change. They're heavy support for militia and solar auxilia, complete with a note saying "some smaller superheavies are heavy support not LoW, this is intended". Giving marines Malcadors as heavy support fits the pattern, I would be really surprised if it changed.

When it comes to use, I don't see how a squad of Malcadors can be any better then a squad of anything else.

It's better because flare-shielded AV 14 with the superheavy rules is really durable. For ~350 points you get a battle cannon, two lascannons, and a demolisher cannon, all of which can fire at BS 4 while moving 12" (or you can fire the battle cannon after moving flat out). A squadron of Vindicators is much slower, much more fragile, and much more vulnerable to losing firepower as it is damaged. Sure, the Vindicators have their uses, but the 30k Malcador is a really good unit.

 King Amroth wrote:
Best bang for your buck is generally the vindi laser destroyer.

Mind if I ask why you think so highly of it? =) It's a great looking model.

 Peregrine wrote:
I don't know why you say that. It can still move 12" and shoot 24", it doesn't lose any firepower if it moves. And if you get close to it the Typhon can just move back 12" to clear space to put the template down

Or tank shock with +1 to thunderblitz

Herecomesyourman wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Best bang for your buck is generally the vindi laser destroyer.

Mind if I ask why you think so highly of it? =) It's a great looking model.

They have strong weapons, decent range and a cheap cost. Use in squadron of 3 and you can pump out 9 twin linked shots at strength 9 ap1 with ordance, as tank killers they are amazing and if someone decides to put some really threatening infantry out then these guys will put a horrific dent in them if needed, finally if it becomes neccesary they can work as anti air in a pinch.

 King Amroth wrote:

Herecomesyourman wrote:

 King Amroth wrote:
Best bang for your buck is generally the vindi laser destroyer.

Mind if I ask why you think so highly of it? =) It's a great looking model.

They have strong weapons, decent range and a cheap cost. Use in squadron of 3 and you can pump out 9 twin linked shots at strength 9 ap1 with ordance, as tank killers they are amazing and if someone decides to put some really threatening infantry out then these guys will put a horrific dent in them if needed, finally if it becomes neccesary they can work as anti air in a pinch.

Yup. WAAC players use squadrons of Vindi Laser Destroyers in 30K.

Is this specific to Legions?

If so, the Malcador squadron is the best heavy support imo. It is just fought as nails with a 18 hullpoints in one choice.

No Legion superheavy will ever match the power of an Ordinatus engine though.

 Peregrine wrote:
...For ~350 points you get a battle cannon, two lascannons, and a demolisher cannon, all of which can fire at BS 4 while moving 12" (or you can fire the battle cannon after moving flat out)...

Unless I'm reading it wrong, can't superheavies split fire as well? If so, with a squadron of three, that's a lot of firepower being put about...

 Tamwulf wrote:
Yup. WAAC players use squadrons of Vindi Laser Destroyers in 30K.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
No Legion superheavy will ever match the power of an Ordinatus engine though.

My WB Warlord disagrees.

The Solar Auxilia Arvus Lighter is stupid

Here! Have a wet cardboard box that can take TWIN-LINKED LASCANNONS AND A FLARE SHIELD

What!?!?

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
No Legion superheavy will ever match the power of an Ordinatus engine though.

My WB Warlord disagrees.

Oh true! For some reason I always get my brain stuck on superheavy tanks, and forget the walkers and flyers.

commander dante wrote:
The Solar Auxilia Arvus Lighter is stupid

Here! Have a wet cardboard box that can take TWIN-LINKED LASCANNONS AND A FLARE SHIELD

What!?!?

Flare shields for all!

I'm quite found of the new Malcador, but being a Iron Warrior Player that shouldn't be surprise....

Personally I think vandicators are prety one of the best in the heavy support, especially now that they can be in squadrons. PotMS on these tanks make them hard as nails, since they can't be shaken like the Scicarians. Demolisher Cannons will blast 2 wound termies off the board almost as easy as it dose regular MEQ. The Las-arrays also make a better all rounder anti-tank then the sicaran venator. (The Venator Comes more into it's own vs. Spartans, Knights, and super heavies.)

The above reasons more or less is why I love the Malcador and specifically the Malcador Annihilator. The higher AV, speed and being a super heavy means it can do the close support fire-power role abit better. The only down side is for about the same points you could just just two vindicators with PotMS. =P

A lot of people forget about the 36 inch range of the LD Vindicators. I didn't when my glaive turned a squadron into CHUMM'd rice krispy treats.

GodofHobos wrote:
A lot of people forget about the 36 inch range of the LD Vindicators. I didn't when my glaive turned a squadron into CHUMM'd rice krispy treats.

They have 48" range as they're destroyer arrays. It was last time I checked at least ...

Yup. WAAC players use squadrons of Vindi Laser Destroyers in 30K.

As a DG player, I bite my thumb at you

They have 48" range as they're destroyer arrays. It was last time I checked at least ...

It is 36" S9 AP1 Ordinance, Twin Linked

per the updated red book. I'd have to look at my old copy at home to see if it was 48" before, but the updated version is definitely 36"