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I am curious, what argumentation / reasoning do you use when you don't want to play vs a battleforged list.

I know that this can be a heated topic so it would be wise to stick to the topic.
Things I am not interested in:
-The player, the models etc. Its just the list.
-What is in your opinion an OP list and what is clearly not op. This never ends well and is kinda offtopic.

I don't refuse games because I'm not a baby when someone brings a list that's better than mine if I decided to be inefficient.

If we can determine the victor (barring insane probability events) before rolling a single dice, then I'll pass on the game. Think something like a Night Lords themed CSM army with Raptors and Terminators and Ehino mounted CSM's vs a Scatterbike/WL Eldar list or an IA1 IG ABG vs Decurion Necrons. In both cases, the latter army is going to obilterate the former with minimal losses and there is very little, if anything, the former can really do about it.

That said, its all very subjective and depends on what both players are bringing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't refuse games because I'm not a baby when someone brings a list that's better than mine if I decided to be inefficient.

The problem is that the game isnt designed around this mindset or functionality, and actively tries to pretend that unit efficacy is irrelevant and instead claims to push "take what you think looks cool". If you do what the game ostensibly wants you to do, its generally just going to lead to lots of losses.

If I don't want to play against a particular list, I'll just say 'no thanks'.

It's not like I'm honour bound or contractually obliged to play any/every-body (although generally I will). I don't feel that I need some sort of excuse to get out of playing a game if I don't want to.

I don't play pick-up games. In an organized setting, the format is clearly defined (or not defined). Either way, everyone's on a mostly level playing field. If there's no restrictions, then shame on the organizer and go ahead and bring your deathstar or Warhound or three Wraithknights or whatever.


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If I did play pick-up games, I'd probably ask that they adhere to ITC army construction because it's common in my area now that ATC adopted it (I'm in Tennessee.)


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With my friends, we discuss our lists ahead of time and reach a consensus on what matchup will result in A GOOD GAME which should be everyone's mutual goal.

 oldzoggy wrote:
I am curious, what argumentation / reasoning do you use when you don't want to play vs a battleforged list.

I know that this can be a heated topic so it would be wise to stick to the topic.
Things I am not interested in:
-The player, the models etc. Its just the list.
-What is in your opinion an OP list and what is clearly not op. This never ends well and is kinda offtopic.

Simple. "I don't think this will be fun game".

Game is supposed to be about fun. If one of the players isn't going to have fun why waste 2-3 hours? It's not going to be good use of time for either player.

What is opponent going to do? Pull up a gun and force me to play because I happen to be at the same room? Hahaha. I am under no obligation to play with everybody.

I suppose I don't need to argue or reason out why I wouldn't want to play against a battleforged list. Either I want to play, or I don't.

The only thing I've ever asked friends not to do is bring multiple Super Heavies [ie, Imperial Knights or Wraithknights] to a 1500 point game without warning me. Even then the only inconvenience is that I would rework my list. No one has ever complained about my not taking a "blind" list against multiple super-heavies. We tried it a few times, it wasn't fun for anyone, so we came to a mutual agreement.

If I don't want to play, I don't. I don't have a specific set of "I will not play against this..." rules. I like trying to tackle tough armies with a "weak" funsies list.

I have a very short list of "broken" units in my mind (Necron Wraiths, Riptides, Wraithknight, Scatbikes, etc)

Where I draw the line is if I see someone specifically going unbound to work around the limitation of what he sees as "tax" units. This one particularly irks me because there are enough "legitimate" ways to field these as battleforged without having to do this kind of stuff (especially Necron Wraiths and Riptides considering they have their own formations). The other thing is this person must be fielding them purely for power;' if I ask them for the lore, they have to give me something beyond "oh they're a super-elite special force" and actually tell me a little about what the unit's backstory is. Anyone who can't even be bothered with the history of a unit probably isn't actually interested in it beyond it's power.

Otherwise, anything else goes. I understand some people just like fielding a single unit, and a lot of units don't have the luxury of a formation or whatnot to make them fieldable in large numbers. For Example if someone wants to field a bunch of Greater Daemons, I'd be fine with that. There is no legitimate way to field them in great numbers (at least not without going above 2000) and theyr'e not that broken, Powerful, but not broken.

I have yet to refuse a game based on the army list. I'm willing to play any list brought by any player. The only time I refuse a game is based on the player.

Not always bad though, for example, in the current campaign I'm participating in, I refuse to play the Tau player simply due to the number of games we've had against one another.

I'd only pass on the game if it's incredibly blatant. However, as others have also stated they do, all my games are pre-scheduled, so I can't really say this is a problem for me. I can't think of a time I turned down a game because of someone's list.

However, if I was doing some pick-up game sort of stuff, it'd have to be something like spammed Wraithknight lists or something like that to turn it down. If their list is tourney-strength, I'll just flat out tell them "Well, I'm pretty sure you're going to spank me, because that's a tournament list. Is there something specific you're looking to check in this list for an upcoming tournament? I'll give it my all, but I'd like to help you find what you're looking for."

And, should I have too many games in a row against tourney lists, I'd say, "Sorry, really not looking for another tourney-strength list. Been playing against those all day. Got another list we can have a game with? I'm just hoping to push some models around and laugh."

I've never actually "refused" to play someone, but often when I go to my LGS ready for game night the players available are either really new, or may not be at the competitive level I am looking for. In those cases, I don't go out of my way to ask for a game, and often I leave without one.

I enjoy this game/hobby and it has been my sole free-time activity for years (I don't play video games anymore unless my kids what me to play with them). Even though I would like a semi-casual competitive game, I have a hard time "playing down", or rather judging how much to tone down to make the game fun for both players. I don't want to curb-stomp someone. So I'll usually just hang out and hope everyone else gets a partner to play.

If one of those players does ask me for a game, I agree and usually let them pick a list they want to face (I usually have 2-3 lists ready).

TL;DR: I don't refuse games, but I won't ask for one if the only available players are really new or have an army that struggles against the army I brought to play.

I gently decline the offer to play, and will rather wait for someone whom dose not use such an list, I have seldom expecrienced a need to argument why I do not wish to play against any sort of player honnestly, no matter the list they bring.

@OP:

The army list makes little difference. The thing you say you're not interested in is the very thing you need to look at the most. It's the player.

You can put the bestest army ever in the hands of a sub-par player or whose grasp on Warhammer 40,000 is tenuous at best.and they'll lose.

Or, you could be playing the bestest army ever in the hands of a person who is crazy awesome and fun to game with; and even though you'll likely lose, you'll have a blast getting your teeth kicked in.

The point is, you have no idea what kind of experience you could have, but I guess you'll never know because you write them off before a single model is ever removed from its foam.

SOoo... To actually answer your silly question of what excuse I might use to not play you. I always find myself torn between "Your attitude sucks - go away!" and "I don't like your face - leave me alone".

I'll pretty much play against anything once, especially if its purely for kicks and we're a few beers in.

But if I don't like the list for any number of reasons, I'll simply tell them I don't want to play against that list. Its that simple.

The only reasons I have to turn down a game is that I don't have a fun matchup with me, usually because I was in for another scheduled game and can only carry so much.

So for a recent example, 3 Wyverns, 3 Vulture Punishers, 4 Vendettas, Leman Russ Eradicators and a Hell Hammer Against a pure infantry Ork List.

Bad matchups are a waste of everyone's time

To ignore the fact that I get about as far as "Unbound let-" before someone goes on a rant about the FoC being necessary (by someone who goes on to use C:SM formations), my arguments would be:

More thematic listing in unbound

Do not have enough of X to make this work in the FoC

No formation bonuses from Unbound

Either:

"No, thanks."

Or:

"Sure. let's play twice, though. First game as offered. Second game swap sides."

Curiously enough, the game offer evaporates more often than the double up happens. When the latter DOES happen, it's generally pretty good.

 Selym wrote:
To ignore the fact that I get about as far as "Unbound let-" before someone goes on a rant about the FoC being necessary (by someone who goes on to use C:SM formations), my arguments would be:

More thematic listing in unbound

Do not have enough of X to make this work in the FoC

No formation bonuses from Unbound

You actually get Formation bonuses when Unbound. You do not, however, get Command Benefits from any Detachments you might be running.

I will turn down games that will of course not be balanced. If I bring my shooty themed ork army I guarantee you I wont play against 2 WK scatpack armies. The reverse is also true. I never enjoy unbalanced games.

My local group is pretty cool though so I never have had to decline games based off of the person.