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 Whirlwind wrote:

Davor wrote:


I agree. GW is on a good start in January 2016. I never thought I would spend so much money on GW again. Thing is, though what is so great now? Prices are still high. He will not lower prices but make box sets instead. So you still can't really buy what you want if you want that great deal in a lot of cases. Yes we have great deals, but if you don't want whats in the deal, are you really saving money though? Where are my deals on Zoan/Venomthropes? Nope they are still as expensive as ever. How about my Raveners? Oh GW said they would be cheaper once in plastic. They are even more expensive in plastic now. Mr Roundtree has been around 2 years now, and those prices are still expensive as ever. We just have the illusion of GW becoming cheaper. Things are still expensive as ever once you start expanding from the "get started boxes".

I agree with this. Rountree is using more common sales tactics but the overall theme on price is still the same. It's easy to get tricked into buying a bargain but end up spending more money than you planned. Take this Kill team set - unless you want both a Tac and Tau squad then it's not really a bargain because you could be spending £10 more than you actually need to because it looks a bargain. It is only a bargain if you actually were going to buy all the items, if not step away and work out the cheapest option for what you want.

Locally (and elsewhere) these new savings boxes are too good to pass up so folks are pairing up to split the cost and models. Death Masque is getting that treatment right now. And they're not all Deathwatch players. When I'm ready to dive into Harlequins splitting that box is the way to go.

I think that's what many did with the Renegade box. I did.

People used to do the same thing with Space Hulk - most of my terminators in my old Dark Angels army came from Space Hulk - twice!

The Auld Grump

 notprop wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
They make the smallest of morsels available to the crowd and suddenly all is forgiven and its the sign of a new age.
....

And/or the incessant whinging was waaay OTT!

GW have taken a more client facing position and their customers are clearly pleased with it, which only underlines how poorly they have managed customer relations over the last decade.

Well, their remaining customers are happy as are those that didn't want to leave. But all who said "forget this?" Good luck getting them back coz from the outside it looks like the same old bloated cost a fortune to start up GW, except now they have some sales tactics outside of "give new units stronger rules"

The company has certainly been making some positive moves of late from a customer engagement and business standpoint, and had this happened two years ago I'd have been all aboard the hype-train.

But it didn't - in the interim they killed WHF and replaced it with a setting and product line I have zero interest in, and seem to be taking 40K in a similar direction albeit in a less drastic fashion. Which could be a funny-sad irony - if the new boss finally fixes the company in terms of attitude, pricing etc, but only after they stop selling the products I actually want to buy.

We'll have to see, as others have said 8th Ed 40K will be the big one to look at(and for me, how they treat the returning Specialist Games).

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 notprop wrote:

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
They make the smallest of morsels available to the crowd and suddenly all is forgiven and its the sign of a new age.
....

And/or the incessant whinging was waaay OTT!

GW have taken a more client facing position and their customers are clearly pleased with it, which only underlines how poorly they have managed customer relations over the last decade.

Well, their remaining customers are happy as are those that didn't want to leave. But all who said "forget this?" Good luck getting them back coz from the outside it looks like the same old bloated cost a fortune to start up GW, except now they have some sales tactics outside of "give new units stronger rules"

Funny, but that's what I had said a couple of years ago - essentially: feth this and feth gw. And now I'm buying more than I have in many years. It helps that I collect from across both genre ranges, but the majority of my purchases have been from the various bundles that give good deals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The company has certainly been making some positive moves of late from a customer engagement and business standpoint, and had this happened two years ago I'd have been all aboard the hype-train.

But it didn't - in the interim they killed WHF and replaced it with a setting and product line I have zero interest in, and seem to be taking 40K in a similar direction albeit in a less drastic fashion. Which could be a funny-sad irony - if the new boss finally fixes the company in terms of attitude, pricing etc, but only after they stop selling the products I actually want to buy.

Which products in particular? The WHFB game is no longer for sale, but which models did you want to buy? - because most of the previous range is still available in a mix of the exact same packaging and renamed packaging. And while we all know that they squatted TK and Brett, I'm assuming that you're not just going to cherry-pick the two ranges that they happened to kill off.

What if GW were to turn into the company we've dreamed of? What then?

 VeteranNoob wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:

Davor wrote:


I agree. GW is on a good start in January 2016. I never thought I would spend so much money on GW again. Thing is, though what is so great now? Prices are still high. He will not lower prices but make box sets instead. So you still can't really buy what you want if you want that great deal in a lot of cases. Yes we have great deals, but if you don't want whats in the deal, are you really saving money though? Where are my deals on Zoan/Venomthropes? Nope they are still as expensive as ever. How about my Raveners? Oh GW said they would be cheaper once in plastic. They are even more expensive in plastic now. Mr Roundtree has been around 2 years now, and those prices are still expensive as ever. We just have the illusion of GW becoming cheaper. Things are still expensive as ever once you start expanding from the "get started boxes".

I agree with this. Rountree is using more common sales tactics but the overall theme on price is still the same. It's easy to get tricked into buying a bargain but end up spending more money than you planned. Take this Kill team set - unless you want both a Tac and Tau squad then it's not really a bargain because you could be spending £10 more than you actually need to because it looks a bargain. It is only a bargain if you actually were going to buy all the items, if not step away and work out the cheapest option for what you want.

Locally (and elsewhere) these new savings boxes are too good to pass up so folks are pairing up to split the cost and models. Death Masque is getting that treatment right now. And they're not all Deathwatch players. When I'm ready to dive into Harlequins splitting that box is the way to go.

The savings are pretty awesome, I recently decided to get into AoS, after spending the first while after its release utterly put off by it. And the Start Collecting Skeleton Horde is just too good for me to pass on since I always wanted VC and Skellies, plus I like all 3 Mortarchs. So since a Mortarch is 80 bucks on its own, and I want Skellies and Black Knights, all that for 5 dollars more than the standard Mortarch? Yes, yes I think I will take 3 (over time, bills and too many other hobbies).

One has to understand, that with a company as large as GW, change wont be instantaneous. ESPECIALLY when it comes to pricing. There are still investors to think about, those who are used to, or even pushed for the increased prices. However, the changes we have seen so far is certainly an attempt to get things to their customers cheaper. I think, and hope cheaper prices are coming, just wouldn't expect lowered prices of general kits any time soon.

That being said, the direction of the company is stark if you think about it, and Roundtree's direction is pretty obvious, compared to Kirby's. I remain cautiously optimistic for the time being, and keeping my fingers crossed that more positive changes come from the company.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

The savings are pretty awesome, I recently decided to get into AoS, after spending the first while after its release utterly put off by it. And the Start Collecting Skeleton Horde is just too good for me to pass on since I always wanted VC and Skellies, plus I like all 3 Mortarchs. So since a Mortarch is 80 bucks on its own, and I want Skellies and Black Knights, all that for 5 dollars more than the standard Mortarch? Yes, yes I think I will take 3 (over time, bills and too many other hobbies).

I did the exact same thing with Mortarchs and SC: VC Boxes. Probably also worthwhile to point out that I'm buying all my stuff from the UK & US (and even NZ in some cases(!)), despite the bs embargo, as I find paying UK prices to be much fairer. I wouldn't be buying a fraction of the stuff if it were all AU pricing - and that includes the newest stuff like Death Masque, so that unfavourable aspect of their business has continued unabated. Due very much to Brexit, I've been buying more of the other models that aren't bundled which I'd have skipped as well.

Pay where you play. So if at a GW store of FLGS, those big ticket boxes move much faster with attainable costs split between two or more players. WarmaHordes has this going for it as well re: starters. Other games too, of course, depending on your store's stock. Ask around, there are certainly folks willing or wanting to do this. Win-win.

I can see roundtree is trying but it's not enough yet.

Prices on deathwatch are better but still too high to get the volume of sales they need to get out of the death spiral.

And they've still not done anything to rebuild burnt bridges, until they do that people will continue the negative GW bashing and warning people off.

He's trying, but he's still bound by some old decisions made by Kirby. The Get Started boxes are discounts without actually lowering prices, which shows he knows the models are too expensive. However, Kirby repeated so often to investors that prices would not be lowered because it would damage the brand for so long that he can't really lower prices without investor backlash. And after you've bought one or two of those Get Started bundles, the game is as expensive, or more depending on when you last looked, than ever.

He's showing that he knows the criticism of the company is sound, and is trying hard to right the ship. Time will tell if it works or if he can make significant enough changes to win back people who left for various reasons.

I'll say this. I still have a lot of Tyranids who are aching to get back on the table. If he can ever get the investors to think lowering prices is a good idea for the company, separates the studio from the sales department and gets the studio to start developing balanced rules, those Tyranids are right eager to hit the table.

I look the Start Collecting boxes, the progress made with newer games, the re-engagement with the community (baby steps as they are), and even the Deathwatch release with the new kits being cheaper than equivalent kits from previous releases and I start to think yes, GW is coming back. They really are coming back.

Then I see Black Library, a sub-company that disappeared so far up its own tail pipe with the HH that they're up to book, what, 300 by now, and most of them are Limited Edition, store-specific, can-only-buy-if-you-were-born-on-a-full-moon-and-have-AB-negative-blood-type releases.

I see that the company that released a Deathwatch Veteran box for $60 also released 10 Tactical Marines for $85 but a few weeks prior to that... and that the DW box, much as I adore it, is still 5 dudes for sixty fething dollars.

I see a company that is so paranoid about 3rd party bits that their kits have become so specific and lack any sort of options outside of the ones that fit with that specific kit (Deathwatch notwithstanding). I see a company that just wants to release bigger and dumber looking monster kits. I can't help but see the underlying cynicism of a lot of their releases.

I used the word baby steps above, and that's what it is. These are minor steps. Tiny steps. The steps you take when you've just turned around.

But they have a long, long way to go.

I've said this a hundred times before and I'll say it again. GW's biggest issues for years have been atrocious rules and crazy expensive pricing. None have been solved so far, nor there have been signs that suggest they may change anytime soon. Rules are more atrocious and bloated than ever, and while the bundles are a nice touch, new kits are getting more and more expensive.

Some people are just too desperate to be thrown a bone.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
The company has certainly been making some positive moves of late from a customer engagement and business standpoint, and had this happened two years ago I'd have been all aboard the hype-train.

But it didn't - in the interim they killed WHF and replaced it with a setting and product line I have zero interest in, and seem to be taking 40K in a similar direction albeit in a less drastic fashion. Which could be a funny-sad irony - if the new boss finally fixes the company in terms of attitude, pricing etc, but only after they stop selling the products I actually want to buy.

Which products in particular? The WHFB game is no longer for sale, but which models did you want to buy? - because most of the previous range is still available in a mix of the exact same packaging and renamed packaging. And while we all know that they squatted TK and Brett, I'm assuming that you're not just going to cherry-pick the two ranges that they happened to kill off.

Well, the WHFB game no longer being for sale is a pretty big one, considering it makes getting pick-up games harder for a system that was already struggling in many areas. It also means an end to BL fiction in the Warhammer setting, an end to Warhammer coverage in GW publications, and some armies left without a book updated for the latest edition. It makes it a toss-up whether any new Mordheim we get out of the Specialist Games revival will actually be Mordheim or some atrocious AoS pretendy-version as with WHQ. And lets not get excited here, the reason most WHF stuff is still available is GW haven't gotten around to culling them yet, the ranges that have gotten that treatment have pretty hefty gaps in them(enjoy building an Empire army without Knights) or did vanish entirely(and I don't consider lamenting the removal of two very cool if in some kits a bit dated ranges "cherry picking" - even if I don't collect an army myself I am fond of the whole setting and still like to read about and fight against all the factions, losing them does materially diminish the whole).

Uh, yeah. I'm a bit fond of the Warhammer world myself. I started with WHFB 3rd edition and don't care in the slightest about the AoS background.

Here's the thing - I actually do have the bones of both a TK and Brett army. I missed out on various kits for the TK (snake riders, etc) and missed getting a Brett Battalion box to shore mine up due to a death in the family basically fething me up right at that time. I just looked up Wikipedia to see which of the WHFB armies I actually have (bought, collected as opposed to painted) - and at this point, it's actually all of them, so I'll guess that I might be a touch more affected than you in some ways there if you want to talk holes in the product range.

So as much as you might have found TK and Bretts interesting, it doesn't seem that you were actively collecting them, and having some vague interest in maybe buying them one day in the future isn't quite the same as "actually want to buy". It's the difference for me between Warlord's BA2nd Ed and that Zombie game that they sell. One is an active thing I'm paying for next week while the other is a thing I'm vaguely interested in but not actively doing anything about purchasing.

But you were talking specifically about the products that you "actually want to buy." And I'm wondering what they are - the things that you were active in buying or collecting that no longer exist - rather than a list of things that you were fond of but not actually buying. Because theoretical possible future Mordheim really doesn't count.

I feel like AoS offended a lot of people, but at the same time, many liked it. It is like two sides of a coin. I one lands up, the other side has to land down. I wonder if they will pull this again with 40k.

lliu wrote:
I feel like AoS offended a lot of people, but at the same time, many liked it. It is like two sides of a coin. I one lands up, the other side has to land down. I wonder if they will pull this again with 40k.

I might actually consider 40k again if they did something similar.

Until the rules and game direction changes then I don't consider him a "success". The game is still incredibly difficult to actually just play.

While I do agree there seems to be apparent change of direction, the devil is still in the details and I certainly do not consider giving us a discount on already overpriced models much of a "win". All that means is that he's letting people with addictions buy their heroin at a discount if they buy in bulk.

40K definitely needs a top down re-write with a lot of simplification. As long as they don't trash the setting and feel I think they'd be alright.

If AoS was set in the old world, and still used ranks, it would have received a tiny fraction of the hate.

I still can't imagine coming back to GW, and it's not because I don't want to.

I'd happily have a couple of AoS forces, except I'm not paying the prices GW want for them. I don't think the AoS rules are great, but they seem easy enough to learn compared to other skirmish games (many of which I like) so it'd be worth having on hand for a game that's easy to drop in and out of.

40k and 30k are a horrible mess and I'm a long time CSM player so super-bitter about all of that, they'd have to pretty much rebuild from the ground up.

I'm generally not hearing great things from people that have played the boxed games, plus price again.

I have some hope for Blood Bowl from what I'm hearing, but then I saw yesterday Morg is Orc & Human only even though he's historically a CAS star player and that's the sort of "yeah but why?" change that puts me off games, when I can't see the reason behind a decision other than "reasons".

Also, the lack of quality and consistency in the 40k FAQs doesn't really give me much faith that GW rules will improve.

Actually, "value" is probably more accurate than "price", given the £000s I've spent on Mierce and all I've spent on getting all the game content for Kingdom Death.

 Baragash wrote:
I still can't imagine coming back to GW, and it's not because I don't want to.

I'd happily have a couple of AoS forces, except I'm not paying the prices GW want for them. I don't think the AoS rules are great, but they seem easy enough to learn compared to other skirmish games (many of which I like) so it'd be worth having on hand for a game that's easy to drop in and out of.

40k and 30k are a horrible mess and I'm a long time CSM player so super-bitter about all of that, they'd have to pretty much rebuild from the ground up.

I'm generally not hearing great things from people that have played the boxed games, plus price again.

I have some hope for Blood Bowl from what I'm hearing, but then I saw yesterday Morg is Orc & Human only even though he's historically a CAS star player and that's the sort of "yeah but why?" change that puts me off games, when I can't see the reason behind a decision other than "reasons".

Also, the lack of quality and consistency in the 40k FAQs doesn't really give me much faith that GW rules will improve.

Actually, "value" is probably more accurate than "price", given the £000s I've spent on Mierce and all I've spent on getting all the game content for Kingdom Death.

What's wrong with 30K and the boxed games? From my understanding, 30K is widely liked and the boxed games (especially silver tower) seem to have gotten nothing but praise from what I've heard.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
I still can't imagine coming back to GW, and it's not because I don't want to.

I'd happily have a couple of AoS forces, except I'm not paying the prices GW want for them. I don't think the AoS rules are great, but they seem easy enough to learn compared to other skirmish games (many of which I like) so it'd be worth having on hand for a game that's easy to drop in and out of.

40k and 30k are a horrible mess and I'm a long time CSM player so super-bitter about all of that, they'd have to pretty much rebuild from the ground up.

I'm generally not hearing great things from people that have played the boxed games, plus price again.

I have some hope for Blood Bowl from what I'm hearing, but then I saw yesterday Morg is Orc & Human only even though he's historically a CAS star player and that's the sort of "yeah but why?" change that puts me off games, when I can't see the reason behind a decision other than "reasons".

Also, the lack of quality and consistency in the 40k FAQs doesn't really give me much faith that GW rules will improve.

Actually, "value" is probably more accurate than "price", given the £000s I've spent on Mierce and all I've spent on getting all the game content for Kingdom Death.

What's wrong with 30K and the boxed games? From my understanding, 30K is widely liked and the boxed games (especially silver tower) seem to have gotten nothing but praise from what I've heard.

@baragash maybe try Mantic? Or cheaper lines 9TH Age is working with. Haven't tried 9TH Age yet as no interest and plenty of AoS around, plus having a blast playing it, but thord party mini companies are making some cheaper, maybe not Mantic cheap, models if you want what they are producing.

Ah, anyhow, I made a detailed comparison of all the Start Collecting! Boxes,CSI check that out. I also think that Games Workshop is not going to do a roundabout like they did with Fantasy and AoS. The SM's have become the very symbol of GW,cand I don't see them removing it any time soon. Also, because financial reasons, the 40k brand is their fail safe money making plan. It's a massive risk that can run the company aground. With Fantasy, they could take that risk, but with 40k, no.

lliu wrote:
Ah, anyhow, I made a detailed comparison of all the Start Collecting! Boxes,CSI check that out. I also think that Games Workshop is not going to do a roundabout like they did with Fantasy and AoS. The SM's have become the very symbol of GW,cand I don't see them removing it any time soon. Also, because financial reasons, the 40k brand is their fail safe money making plan. It's a massive risk that can run the company aground. With Fantasy, they could take that risk, but with 40k, no.

That's exactly what they were planning though until AoS flopped and made them pump the breaks hard, don't forget they tore down the aquila and space marine to put up that now infamous sigmarine.

They were setting up the end times for 40k same as they had for wfb.

hobojebus wrote:

lliu wrote:
Ah, anyhow, I made a detailed comparison of all the Start Collecting! Boxes,CSI check that out. I also think that Games Workshop is not going to do a roundabout like they did with Fantasy and AoS. The SM's have become the very symbol of GW,cand I don't see them removing it any time soon. Also, because financial reasons, the 40k brand is their fail safe money making plan. It's a massive risk that can run the company aground. With Fantasy, they could take that risk, but with 40k, no.

That's exactly what they were planning though until AoS flopped and made them pump the breaks hard, don't forget they tore down the aquila and space marine to put up that now infamous sigmarine.

They were setting up the end times for 40k same as they had for wfb.

They are setting up the 40k end times. Onemindsyndicate youtube channel has gone so far to speculate that all the not dead primarchs will come back.

About WHFB, if we would get an updated rank and file Bretonnia and Tomb Kings it would be a definate buy for me. Also some cheaper and not just direct only Sisters of Battle would be nice.

Yes... I used many Sigmarine parts to build my Comlany and Chaoter Masters.

Well my order for Death Masque via 4tK just got cancelled as they are no longer supplying it to trade accounts. It seems that the positive changes have yet to affect all their poor practices.

Kirasu wrote:Until the rules and game direction changes then I don't consider him a "success". The game is still incredibly difficult to actually just play.

So true. I just looked at one of the new Chaos psychic powers. Roll to generate power, roll to see if you activate, opponent rolls to deny, roll to see if you hit, or was it see how far from a certain spot. Anything within 3" or was it 6" then rolls to see if they take a a d3 hit at a d6 strength. Or something like that. Like come on that is what 6, 7+ rolls to do one thing?

This randomness is a joke now and all it's doing is just slowing the game. Just too much rolling for rollings sake and not adding fun to the game. This sounds like fun?

I can't wait or hope that 40K gets the sigmar treatment like a poster above would like as well.