Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The biker seargant in the SM codex states that he can take items from the "ranged weapons and/or melee weapons" tables, but both of those tables state that you replace your bolt pistol/melee weapon etc with whatever you take. As the Sarge only has a bolt pistol to trade, this effectively means he can only take one item, right?

Correct.

This essentially limits him from ever claiming the two melee weapon bonus, unless you take the controversial view that you can swap the twin-linked bolter that comes with the bike, or that his grenades count as a weapon for the purpose.

He definitely cannot replace his grenades for any items; they are not boltgun, bolt pistol,nor melee weapons.

But the bikes twin-linked boltguns are boltguns that could be replaced, sort of, technically. I still wouldn't do it just like I wouldn't replace a captain's grenades for a relic.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
But the bikes twin-linked boltguns are boltguns that could be replaced, sort of, technically. I still wouldn't do it just like I wouldn't replace a captain's grenades for a relic.

The way I always read this is that the serge is listed as having a bolt pistol, grenades and a bike. He's not listed as having TL bolters. Therefore he can't swap them for something else. The bolters come as part of the bike, not directly as part of the serge's wargear.

It's a subtle distinction and I'm sure some people would argue it, but to me this is the interpretation that makes sense.

Hence the "sort of, technically" once he has the the bike those might could be considered "his boltguns", or "boltguns that he has", which in game is the only way the model can fire them.

I agree they should not be swappable for a second lightning claw or the like.

But then we get into things like scout bikers; up to 3 of which can replace their bike's twin-linked boltguns for astartes grenade launchers. Showing that a model's wargear's wargear can potentially be changed. Yes the option specifies that the exchange is for the bike's boltguns, but that could just as easily be to avoid the confusion of an option to exchange a weapon the scouts do not have listed(since as you said they just have bike in their wargear).

All that said: I personally would refuse to play an opponent that exchanged their twinlinked boltguns for a pistol or a melee weapon; but would have no problem for it exchanged for a combi_weapon(even on a sgt with 2 combi-grav); this is partially due to the old chaos bikers who had special weapons bike mounted and because forging that narrative with a slightly customized bike fits most of the bike-heavy or tech chapters in fluff(Iron hands makes as much sense as a bionic-bike conversion, white scars and ravenwing both seem like this is something the sgt would do with his bike, pretty much anybody but ultramarines skew far enough away from the codex to justify a combi on the bike)

If I remember correctly, in the CSM book, it specifically allows for a Chaos Biker squad to replace either their bolt pistol, melee weapon, or the twin linked bolter on the bike for a plasma gun, melta gun, or flamer. i don't currently have my chaos book right now so I might be wrong.

Yes, chaos space marine bike squads are explicitly allowed to replace their twin linked bolters with special weapons. This is in line with how the special weapons upgrade pack for the bikes is modelled.

In the SM codex it specifically says the sergeant may take ITEMS from the Ranged and Melee weapons.

That means that you may give him a ranged weapon AND a melee weapon.

If it said he may take one item from ranged or melee then the bolt pistol issue would be correct.

 Corennus wrote:
In the SM codex it specifically says the sergeant may take ITEMS from the Ranged and Melee weapons.

That means that you may give him a ranged weapon AND a melee weapon.

If it said he may take one item from ranged or melee then the bolt pistol issue would be correct.

And what do the Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons lists say about taking items from them?

"A model may replace his boltgun, bolt pistol and/or Melee weapon with one of the following:"

You need more than one boltgun, bolt pistol and/or Melee weapon to take more than one item, so the bolt pistol issue very much remains.

 Corennus wrote:
In the SM codex it specifically says the sergeant may take ITEMS from the Ranged and Melee weapons.

That means that you may give him a ranged weapon AND a melee weapon.

If it said he may take one item from ranged or melee then the bolt pistol issue would be correct.

Given the context of him only having a single weapon to swap out, I suggest it means those are the items he can take. Not necessarily that he can take 1 or more of more than one option.