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Here's a list I have been thinking about recently, would like the thoughts of the dakka community on it.

- Deamon CAD -

Fateweaver
Herald of Khorne, Juggernaut, Crimson Crown, Greater Reward
Herald of Tzeetch, Level 2, Disk, Paradox, Exalted Reward

11x Horrors
11x Horrors

15x Flesh Hounds
8x Screamers
8x Screamers

- CSM Allies -

Be'lakor

10x Cultist, Champion w/ shotgun (had 2 extra points)


I like to think of the whole core of the army as a death star. As long as Be'lakor is alive and if he manages to pull out Shroud and Invisibility, everything that can jink is either a flyer or has 2++ reroll.

If the Herald happens to roll cursed earth, it gets even more ridiculous as it is very possible then to have an invisible/2++ unit (rerollable if the screamers are selected). Anyway he will have summoning and use only 5 dice to summon thanks to that awesome Paradox artifact.

Fateweaver is there to prevent crazy things happening with the storm table and to reroll that grimoire 3+. Having a D spell is also nice

The Khorne Herald as the greater reward for survivability or to have a way to deal with T3 swarms (scarabs and such)

I would not change much, maybe one less screamer for a 3rd level on the herald, but other than that what are your thoughts ?

Paradox counts as a Helforged Artifact, so you can't also use the Exalted Reward for the Grimoire. I'd consider dropping the second unit of Screamers for another Disc Herald with the Grimoire to accompany the first. Then they can either grim themselves for the traditional Screamerstar, or grim the Hounds, and then use Shroud as you suggest for the 2++ jink on the Screamers.

I'd also try to max Mastery Levels on the Herald.

Alternatively just drop Paradox and keep the Exalted Reward.

Thanks for the comments.

I also considered going for a second herald, but found the second pack of screamer being a better choice for board control and running after small units of jetbikes and such.

Now I don't have my wulfen book with me, but I thought I read that these artifacts do not count toward the total of gifts an herald can buy. If true wouldn't it make my khorne herald also illegal?

They don't count towards the reward point limit, but you still can't have two artefacts (so your list is legal, but you can't get a grimoire)

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They don't count towards the reward point limit, but you still can't have two artefacts (so your list is legal, but you can't get a grimoire)

This is true, it's worded as such so that you can take greater rewards for survivability for dudes who already have paradox, also taking portaglyph is funny though doesn't really look like your army would use it well.

I would definitely drop a squad of screamers for Tzherald w/ disc ml 3, move the paradox to this one. This gives you 80 pts left, maybe another 5 hounds and split them into 2 packs of ten if your concerned about boars presence

Thanks for clarifying this. I forgot about this limitation.

I will think of something else and post later ... the easy way to fix this is to change the paradox for a 3rd level on the herald. This was what I had before reading the curse of the wulfen.

I am thinking about a Lv1 cheap herald with paradox for that sweet 5 dice guaranteed summoning. I do feel like I need boots on the ground to apply the necessary pressure. But will definitely meditate on these comments. Thanks again.

Cpt.BonOMM wrote:
Thanks for clarifying this. I forgot about this limitation.

I will think of something else and post later ... the easy way to fix this is to change the paradox for a 3rd level on the herald. This was what I had before reading the curse of the wulfen.

I am thinking about a Lv1 cheap herald with paradox for that sweet 5 dice guaranteed summoning. I do feel like I need boots on the ground to apply the necessary pressure. But will definitely meditate on these comments. Thanks again.

My earlier suggestions gives you just as many units on the board but more psyker lvls, the only thing you really lose is the ability to turbo boost the second Hound pack.

I'm not trying to force you to switch but you asked for advice on how to improve, it's kinda clear you don't want to change anything so I'll say what you were hoping to hear.

"Dude this list is beast, other than the paradox thing it's the best I've ever seen for the point value!"


Asshat sarcasm aside, if you really want to devote 5 dice to summon and still want to cast CE and maybe something else you are going to need more dice. There is a reason Screamerstars normally have 18-25 WC, that's the main thing I'd fix. Keep in mind Kairos generally takes more WC than he gives so keep that in mind when calculating the amount of die you'll need

Ecdain wrote:

I'm not trying to force you to switch but you asked for advice on how to improve, it's kinda clear you don't want to change anything so I'll say what you were hoping to hear.

"Dude this list is beast, other than the paradox thing it's the best I've ever seen for the point value!"

Asshat sarcasm aside ...

I wouldn't be posting here if I thought this list was the absolute best. I know very well it is not and I am ready to change things. I still think it is a strong Chaos daemon list though.

So according to the comments I got so far, this would be better :

- Deamon CAD -
Fateweaver
Herald of Khorne, Juggernaut, Crimson Crown, Greater Reward
Herald of Tzeetch, Level 3, Disk, Paradox
Herald of Tzeetch, Level 3, Disk, Exalted Reward
11x Horrors
11x Horrors
17x Flesh Hounds
9x Screamers
- CSM Allies -
Be'lakor
10x Cultist

That's 17 base warp dice. I would normally spend 6 on invisibility (89%), 4 on shrouding (93%), leaving the rest for whatever is needed. I wonder what the odds are for a 4 dice summon with the paradox. I think the hounds are better left in a large unit because this list relies a lot on buffs and the larger the unit, the more efficient the buff.

A middle ground would be something like this :

- Deamon CAD -
Fateweaver
Herald of Khorne, Juggernaut, Crimson Crown, Greater Reward
Herald of Tzeetch, Level 2, Disk, Paradox
Herald of Tzeetch, Level 2, Disk, Exalted Reward
11x Horrors
11x Horrors
15x Flesh Hounds
7x Screamers
5x Screamers
- CSM Allies -
Be'lakor
10x Cultist, Flamer

Still 15 WC base. I found that 1 summon/turn is usually enough to get things done and to reliably get more you need to spend another 7-8 WC (175-200 points). I know mathematically these points would be repaid after 2 turns, but that is only true if your opponent is leaving your psykers alive and meanwhile you are not putting as much pressure on him.

I must also admit that I do like the screamers a lot, the model in particular, but also the great maneuverability they bring to a list. They also do wonders opening these free battle company transport without relying only on psychic powers. I will anyway probably be trying all of these variant and see how they fare against different opponents in the coming months. Thanks for the inputs.

If you gonna quote me at least also quote the part where I called myself a sarcastic Asshat cause I couldn't resist the jib. But only quoting the one part is kinda misleading on what I was inflecting and gives people who haven't read up the impression I was just being a right prick xD

You're right. Done! Also I am unsure what you are referring to when you say 'still want to cast CE' ...

Cpt.BonOMM wrote:
You're right. Done! Also I am unsure what you are referring to when you say 'still want to cast CE' ...

Force of habit when i see daemons my bad xD just used to everyone diving for CE. In your list I Can see after invisibility on hounds CE has minimal value.