Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In the latest iteration of Kill Teams that just dropped it states that you can take vehicles so long as the armor values of front, sides, and rear all add up to 33 or less.
By RAW, that would indicate that the Necron Triarch Stalker would be takeable, in that the armor values written in the codex list it as front/side/rear armor 11/11/11.
The tricky thing is, the vehicle also has a semi temporary forcefield which can buff its armor value by +2 on the front and sides (which would effectively make it 13/13/11 for a combined total of 37) until it takes a penetrating hit (at which point it drops back down to 11/11/11).

Now the question is:
Aside from good sportsmanship or house rules (in that some armies might not be able to field things to effectively handle AV13 at 200 point games), is there any reason a Necron player would not be allowed to take a Triarch Stalker in a 200 point Kill Team list?

I don't see why you get to ignore a units special rules and wargear when determining if you meet army building restrictions

Seems like the quantum shielding is active during army construction so it would figure into the totaling up of the front, side, and rear armor values.

If there were a clause that said 'while deployed' or 'while on the battefield' then it could be argued that quantum shielding would not figure into the totaling up of the front, side, and rear armor values.

From a rules standpoint, I don't have an issue with it. It's a temporary buff provided by a special gear.

From a fairness standpoint, I do. There's really no reason for most players to bring Melta or similar Strength 8 plus weapons that actually could threaten an AV 13 vehicle in Kill Team. So, like the Riptide that is the reason behind the 3 Wound rule, there's really no reason to expect an opposing kill team will be able to counter the Stalker. So the Stalker is definitely against the spirit of the rules, if not the exact text of the rule.

However, there is another issue with puttign in a Triarch Stalker.

I may have misread this, but there is a minimum number of models required for a Kill Team, and at a base 150 points, the Triarch Stalker leaves only 50 points or so to get the rest of the kill team in. I don't think the Necrons have a unit that allows them to take the minimum number of models they need to fill out the kill team for 50 points or less. So, I don't think a Triarch stalker could be part of a legal kill team list regardless of Quantum Shielding.

Just to play devils advocate. Aren't these restrictions based off of the entry listing only for the vehicle? And would therefore make the triarch stalker a viable choice.

I haven't gotten a chance to check the full rules for kill team yet so I'm just here to throw out that conflicting opinion

Jefffar wrote:
I may have misread this, but there is a minimum number of models required for a Kill Team, and at a base 150 points, the Triarch Stalker leaves only 50 points or so to get the rest of the kill team in.

Actually, in the current codex the Stalker is 125 points. You can add 4 Tomb Blades to that and still come in under 200 points, thus satisfying all the requirements.

I don't own the necron codex, but in Battlescribe quantum shielding says that the vehicle counts its armor values as being 13 (I assume it's a copy/paste from the codex).
So quantum shielding does not directly changes the AV (the profile is not modified), it just says that you treat it as AV 13.
KT rules restrict according to the profile (sum of AV, which is a characteristic like armor save or wounds), so I think the Triarch Stalker could be used.

In any case, it's probably not the intent.
You could post this question on their facebook page. They seem to pass along the rule questions to the relevant teams now. We could see an FAQ in a foreseeable future.

"Counts as"= is for all rules purposes.

The only way it could be regular AV prior to the damaging hit is if it only "counts as against the strength of weapons hitting it".

For all games purposes it is combined AV greater than 33 at list building just like a dark eldar cannot take a shadow field(that is the 2++ until it fails a save right?)

Don't know if this allowed, but...
Quantum Shielding

It is allowed to quote a rule when that rule is under discussion.

And what it is saying is that until the model takes damage its combined AV is 37 as its front and side counts as(= is) 13.

Alright, I guess Necrons just aren't allowed to take vehicles in Kill Teams.

Here's hoping they can clarify Kill Team with a FAQ some time soon so everyone will be on the same page.

Id also say no would be like putting a lone wolf in then giving him termi armour and trying to argue that the model is a 3+ but the upgrade gives him 2+

that is part of why I mentioned to DE Shadowfield ealier in the thread: it is a 2+ save upgrade that then is lost after the model fails a save, thus it is even closer to quantum shielding and still entirely illegal in kill team.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
that is part of why I mentioned to DE Shadowfield ealier in the thread: it is a 2+ save upgrade that then is lost after the model fails a save, thus it is even closer to quantum shielding and still entirely illegal in kill team.

Except a dark eldar would be able to take a shadowfield since that provides an invulnerable save and KT only limits armor saves. However, only an Archon can take it, and he is an HQ, so the point is moot.

It does only specifically call out Armour as being restricted, so if you are able to get elites, troops, and/or fast attacks with a 2++, you can take it.

I honestly feel like Necrons could take the vehicle, because of the datasheet values. I understand that there's probably ways to talk my head around about this, but I don't believe "counts as" means "is" when creating lists. Or most other places. The AV "counts as" 13, but is really still 11 when you're looking at your army list. I honestly think an FAQ for this could go either way, and neither way is good IMO. I'd like them to be able to take a vehicle, I'd like that vehicle not to be godly. I think an errata to make it work differently (or not at all, "Shields Down" or something) in KT would be best, for balance.

TL;DR - I think you might be able to, but would prefer you not.

The more I think about it, the more I think you guys are right, I just honestly feel like it could go either way in the eyes of GW.