Daemons + New Traitors hate formations - Can finally ally CSM back into daemons.

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**mrhappyface**

Personally, the Hellforged Warpack seems like the perfect long range support for a daemons army; 3 forgefiends and we have 24x S8 Ap4 shots re-rolling to hit and re-rolling to wound because of daemonforge. If you have cursed earth up your pack has 4++ and 3++ on the alpha with the 3+ repair from the warpsmith, which makes your gun line vastly more survivable.

What does Dakka think? Could this match up be improved or are there better formations to ally with daemons?

(One last thing: "Second and/or subsequent times", what does this mean? Can Daemonforge be used any number of times or only in 2 turns?)

**Slayer-Fan123**

Why bother with Forgefiends or Defilers when Maulerfiends exist?

**Roknar**

Be careful, the pack doesn't magically become a squadron. It's still 3 individual fiends. For those re-rolls and saves you'd have to cast a lot of spells.

**DarknessEternal**

mrhappyface wrote:
; 3 forgefiends and we have 24x S8 Ap4 shots re-rolling to hit

Where are you getting re-rolls to hit? Daemonfuge doesn't do that. And yes, it can be used every turn.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I'd prefer using the Daemon Engine Pack instead. BS5 Forge Fiends is insane.

**mrhappyface**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why bother with Forgefiends or Defilers when Maulerfiends exist?

CC units are not what the daemon codex lacks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roknar wrote:
Be careful, the pack doesn't magically become a squadron. It's still 3 individual fiends. For those re-rolls and saves you'd have to cast a lot of spells.

Cursed earth is an area affact so it won't matter if they are in a squadron.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
; 3 forgefiends and we have 24x S8 Ap4 shots re-rolling to hit

Where are you getting re-rolls to hit? Daemonfuge doesn't do that. And yes, it can be used every turn.

My mistake, re-roll to wound and pen, must have misread as hit... Somehow??

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'd prefer using the Daemon Engine Pack instead. BS5 Forge Fiends is insane.

Is that the formation from KDK? If not where?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Black Legion Supplement. 2 of Forge Fiends or Maulerfiends in any combination and a Warp Smith. One Fiend per phase can use the Warpsmith's WS or BS.

**cod3x**

Daemon Engine Pack TLDR

Black Legion formation lets you swap warpsmith BS or WS with one daemon engine, once per turn and give preferred enemy to engines targetting enemy character of choice. WS 4 is okay but BS 5 is key. Minimum formation is a warpsmith and two engines. Recommend 1 mauler 1 forge. The warpsmith gives BS5 to forge with autocannons and a mouthplasma, reduce cover saves for shooty targets and repair stuff, maulerfiend runs ahead going RAAAA.

Ally with deamons if you want Tzeentch heralds and horrors to cast divination and cursed earth. Or go Balestar on something CSM and have multiple detachments.

**Roknar**

Cursed earth is aoe, but divination isn't. I though that was where you were getting the to hit re-rolls from. For that you'd need to cast prescience thee times with three different casters. IIRC you can't cast any power more than once, unless that's only limited to witchfires. Even then it would be a minimum of 6 warp dice.

The pack is from the Black Legion supplement. You get to use the BS/WS from the warpsmith for 1 fiend. They also all get preferred enemy against a character you nominate and gain a hullpoint if one of the fiends manages to kill it.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Roknar wrote:
Be careful, the pack doesn't magically become a squadron. It's still 3 individual fiends. For those re-rolls and saves you'd have to cast a lot of spells.

Why does that matter? Maulerfiends were meant to just go forward and be used in a redundant manner.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrhappyface wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why bother with Forgefiends or Defilers when Maulerfiends exist?

CC units are not what the daemon codex lacks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Roknar wrote:
Be careful, the pack doesn't magically become a squadron. It's still 3 individual fiends. For those re-rolls and saves you'd have to cast a lot of spells.

Cursed earth is an area affact so it won't matter if they are in a squadron.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarknessEternal wrote:
mrhappyface wrote:
; 3 forgefiends and we have 24x S8 Ap4 shots re-rolling to hit

Where are you getting re-rolls to hit? Daemonfuge doesn't do that. And yes, it can be used every turn.

My mistake, re-roll to wound and pen, must have misread as hit... Somehow??

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'd prefer using the Daemon Engine Pack instead. BS5 Forge Fiends is insane.

Is that the formation from KDK? If not where?

They don't lack melee units but they lack ones that strike at S10 and are just as quick as Maulerfiends. Plus you send the Maulerfiend you nominate as a character to go into a situation where it'll die and you will get Rage for everyone.

**CrownAxe**

There are already WAAAY better ways to add shooting to Daemon armies (Renegade Knights, Renegades and Heretics, Chaos Rapier Batteries) that taking a formation for brutally overcosted Forge Fiends is not a good option.