Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.

No, this is just giving a similar option to Blood Angels in exchange for not being able to field a buttload of Bikes. BA don't get Bike Troops, they would have Assault Marine Troops. C:SM would keep Bike Troops. 1:1 exchange.

That would solve nothing. Blood Angels would still be bad, and you would still complain about it. An actual more efficient fix would be giving the entire army better rules representation regarding their unique heritage.

We're not getting either, so get over it and maybe try looking at the positive side of things. Thats what Sanguinous would do. XD



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brutishcard wrote:
Basically if you want to field a fast blood Angels army, field a red white scars army. The problem here isn't that the formations are bad (apart from the battle company one - that sucks by any comparison) it's that they aren't 300 free points. Which is actually a good thing! Just not until the 300 free points go away

Basically.

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So by that logic if it's not game breaking, then C:SM should field Assault Marines as troops too if the Captain has a Jump Pack.

No, this is just giving a similar option to Blood Angels in exchange for not being able to field a buttload of Bikes. BA don't get Bike Troops, they would have Assault Marine Troops. C:SM would keep Bike Troops. 1:1 exchange.

That would solve nothing. Blood Angels would still be bad, and you would still complain about it. An actual more efficient fix would be giving the entire army better rules representation regarding their unique heritage.

We're not getting either, so get over it and maybe try looking at the positive side of things. Thats what Sanguinous would do. XD

Why would I not be happy if I could play with a buttload of Assault Marines. I like their kit and I like their options. Being able to run 2x Meltaguns (maybe even with a Combi on the Sergeant) in a Troops unit would be great. I don't need to have OP options to be happy. I already can run a Gladius with my Crimson Fists.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.

That was my thought too, but it likely includes the restriction on the actual formation page, and was left out on the Angel's Blade Detachment sheet for simplicity

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.

You are correct, it is Zealot. As for the Captain and Chaplain dictating what you can choose, the Command Squad entry says (si le Captain est selectionne) after it, which roughly translates to "If a Captain is selected" and the Furioso Dreadnought entry says (se le Chaplain est selectionne) which roughly translates to "If a Chaplain is selected". Quite literally, the BA BDC is worse than any other BDC.

Have the rules leaked on the Terminator Captain? Is it the same as before?
I also spotted the Archangels Demi-Company does not allow a Chaplain to be taken

diepotato47 wrote:
Have the rules leaked on the Terminator Captain? Is it the same as before?
I also spotted the Archangels Demi-Company does not allow a Chaplain to be taken

The Terminator Captain's Data Sheet is its own thing. They have Terminator Armor, a Storm Bolter, a Thunder Hammer, and an Iron Halo. For Special Rules they have Furious Charge, ATSKNF, and Independent Character. They can choose Terminator Weapons, Special Equipment, and Relics of Baal. For...some points (the sheet is cut off), they can trade their Thunder Hammer for the Hammer of Baal. Basically, this lets you build Captain Karlaen without the Counterattack or set Warlord Trait.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.

You are correct, it is Zealot. As for the Captain and Chaplain dictating what you can choose, the Command Squad entry says (si le Captain est selectionne) after it, which roughly translates to "If a Captain is selected" and the Furioso Dreadnought entry says (se le Chaplain est selectionne) which roughly translates to "If a Chaplain is selected". Quite literally, the BA BDC is worse than any other BDC.

Ah, I think you're seeing a pic here that I haven't seen yet. I have seen the pics for the overall detachments and not any individual ones for the individual formations.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
Bikes as troops choices, I should say. Otherwise they are Fast Attack

And every single Codex: Space Marines chapter can use Bikes as Troops, not just White Scars. Read the frickin' book.

So because there's mistake in another codex mistake should be made in another codex too? Rather than fix the original mistake...

 DarthOvious wrote:

Spoiler:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
So for the Battle Demi-Company, is the choice between Command Squad and Furioso determined by the player, or whether you take a Captain or Chaplain?

The images indicate that if you take a Captain, you can ONLY choose a Command Squad, and if you take a Chaplain, you can ONLY choose a Furioso Dreadnought.

The BDC is 100% lifted from the Exterminatus book. Absolutely no reason whatsoever to choose it. It provides zero benefits and has higher requirements than any other BDC. Good job GW, you fail at life.

And if they change it, every Blood Angel player who bought the book feels ripped off. Is it better to dissappoint a smaller percentage of their player base, or stab them in the back?
They are in a tight spot trying to support these garbage tier armies. Expectations are high, and in some cases unreasonable.
I'm glad that we received some love, and despite it not being the super-powered detachment our blue and green brothers got.

I don't think you quite realize what the problem is. The benefits from the Angel's Blade Strike Force are the Red Thirst (+1 Initiative when Charging), Reroll Warlord Trait, and Stubborn when squads are half strength or less. The Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company, a Core formation FOR the Angel's Blade, has the Red Thirst and Reroll Warlord trait. The BDC provides, literally, NO benefit. Period. They should have changed it because otherwise it is a pointless formation.

I was under the impression from the leaked source that we got Zealot at half strength (re-rolling hits in first round of combat) rather than stubborn. Also When I am reading the entry it looks like taking the Captain or Chaplain doesn't entail taking one or the other for the Dread or command squad, although I could be missing something.

You are correct, it is Zealot. As for the Captain and Chaplain dictating what you can choose, the Command Squad entry says (si le Captain est selectionne) after it, which roughly translates to "If a Captain is selected" and the Furioso Dreadnought entry says (se le Chaplain est selectionne) which roughly translates to "If a Chaplain is selected". Quite literally, the BA BDC is worse than any other BDC.

Ah, I think you're seeing a pic here that I haven't seen yet. I have seen the pics for the overall detachments and not any individual ones for the individual formations.

Someone posted some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
Bikes as troops choices, I should say. Otherwise they are Fast Attack

And every single Codex: Space Marines chapter can use Bikes as Troops, not just White Scars. Read the frickin' book.

So because there's mistake in another codex mistake should be made in another codex too? Rather than fix the original mistake...

Mistake that they have doubled down on by making even more accessible? Doesn't sound much like a mistake to me.

If we can stay a bit closer to the topic please.

Thank you.

tneva82 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

diepotato47 wrote:
Bikes as troops choices, I should say. Otherwise they are Fast Attack

And every single Codex: Space Marines chapter can use Bikes as Troops, not just White Scars. Read the frickin' book.

So because there's mistake in another codex mistake should be made in another codex too? Rather than fix the original mistake...

I think what he is saying is that they didn't "fix it" so it's admittance really that it's pretty intentional for SM's to be able to take bikes as troops.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 reds8n wrote:
If we can stay a bit closer to the topic please.

Thank you.

Apologies. I posted before seeing this.

Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*

Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army

Still a lot to be positive about I think.

The more I think about it, the more that the Death Company Detachment is the way forward.

Chaplain gives other DC members within range of him +1A. Relics wise he has access to two great ones. 1) An item which grants him and his unit counter attack and 2) An AP3 Crozius which allows re-rolls of FNP of 1's for his unit.

Option 1 would mean 5 attacks each DC member for that 12" bubble even when they are being charged rather than charging, and 5 attacks each with re-rolls to hit for zealot (not sure about wounds yet) is the sweet spot and option 2 would mean a slightly more survivable Death Company unit making it's way up the table, helped along with a 6" redeployment move forward too.

In saying that the DS and charge formations for The Golden Host and The Orbital Intervention Force is going to be a Godsend against Tau and Shooty Eldar. Not saying we would smash them now but at least you'll actually get to kill some things rather than just removing models off the table every turn without any assault taking place.

some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.

So you can field these formation without being forced to take the demi-company?

 commander dante wrote:
Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*

Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army

I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.

 DarthOvious wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
Wait wait wait wait wait...
The Golden host can CHOOSE What turn they drop in?
Can they choose Turn 1 for a Turn 1 Deep Strike Charge?
*Digs though Models Box to find Sanguinity Guard all loaded up with Inferno Pistols and Swords*

Man that is going to be strong
Just IMAGINE 50 Sanguinity Guard AND Dante Deep Striking Turn 1, Scattering only D6" and Shooting+Charging MOST of your army

I'm guessing since it's 2-5 units of SG that we can indeed take 50 of them with 5 squads of 10. Strange since there are only meant to be 30 in each chapter. I guess we'll use our imagination and just assume that the chapters collated their SG together for this fight.

LITERALLY FLUFF BREAKING

Spado wrote:

some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.

So you can field these formation without being forced to take the demi-company?

Yes. And there is still a different (incredibly expensive) formation that can be taken instead of the Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company. The Archangels Battle Demi-Company, which is a Terminator Captain, 2 Furioso Dreadnoughts, and 3 chosen from Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard Vets, or Sternguard Vets.

My plan is to run the Golden Host with Dante, an Orbital Intervention Force (probably 3x Tactical Terminators), and a CAD with two Sanguinary Priests, 2x Scout Squads, and 2x Assault Marine Squads (Combi-Melta, 2x Meltagun). I actually can make room for a 2x Gravgun Bike Squad too. Not too shabby. Though I won't have any Anti-Air, but that isn't a big deal.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Spado wrote:

some images from Photobucket earlier in the thread. I back-tracked from there to find scans of basically everything in the book. Overall, there is some good in there (I will be running a Golden Host and Orbital Intervention Force), but most of it is crap.

So you can field these formation without being forced to take the demi-company?

Yes. And there is still a different (incredibly expensive) formation that can be taken instead of the Blood Angels Battle Demi-Company. The Archangels Battle Demi-Company, which is a Terminator Captain, 2 Furioso Dreadnoughts, and 3 chosen from Terminators, Assault Terminators, Vanguard Vets, or Sternguard Vets.

Are you able send me a PM with any links to any photos? I've only seen the detachment photos and not any formations or datasheets? If not, don't worry, I only thought I would ask in case you did have any.

The chapter ancient looks cool aswell but I dont understand one thing: can they attack when they disembark from the pod?

Spado wrote:
The chapter ancient looks cool aswell but I dont understand one thing: can they attack when they disembark from the pod?

Yeah, allowing them to double shoot could certainly be fun. Hard to say which version would get the most out of it.

I think one of the best builds is going to be the Death Company detachment with the Lucifier Armoured Task Force formation.

Free 18" movement for AV14/13 spam, before the game even starts, is no joke. Suddenly Baal Predators are good again. BA Vindicators effectively have a 54" threat range.

Throw a couple of TH/SS Terminators in the Land Raider and possibly some Grav Devastators with the points left over and you're probably laughing.

 Frozocrone wrote:
I think one of the best builds is going to be the Death Company detachment with the Lucifier Armoured Task Force formation.

Free 18" movement for AV14/13 spam, before the game even starts, is no joke. Suddenly Baal Predators are good again. BA Vindicators effectively have a 54" threat range.

Throw a couple of TH/SS Terminators in the Land Raider and possibly some Grav Devastators with the points left over and you're probably laughing.

You can't take Vindicators in the Lucifer, just Baal Predators and Predators. The fact the Baal Predators already come with Overcharged Engines makes the formation bonus of getting them free less of a bonus too.

Missed that. Still, take Vindis as an auxillary choice and get 42" movement.

I still think Scout is going to be insane, regardless of whether overcharged engines are free or not.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Missed that. Still, take Vindis as an auxillary choice and get 42" movement.

I still think Scout is going to be insane, regardless of whether overcharged engines are free or not.

How exactly are the Vindicators getting the 42" movement? Also, you can't take Vindicators as an Auxiliary for the Death Company Detachment.

Still, Scouting Flamestorm Baal Predators are no joke. Especially when rerolling 1s to hit in a Squadron.

I meant threat range 6" pre game move, 12" fast movement, 24" demolisher cannon range.

DC Warlord Traits:

1 one time per battle, you can chose to roll a die (can be any die : roll to hit, a save, a die of a LD test etc)
2 the character and the DC units within 12" have fleet when they charge
3 the warlord and its unit has rampage
4 the warlord gains fnp, if he alreaday has it add +1 to the fnp roll
5 the warlord gains rage
6 the warlord and all the DC units within 12" gains hatred (chaos deamons) and hatred (CSM)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pretty much only 2 stands out, possibly 4 too with the DC Relics.

A vehicle Scout move is actually 12" - not nearer than 18" if it can be seen though.

Warhams-77 wrote:
A vehicle Scout move is actually 12" - not nearer than 18" if it can be seen though.

It is 12", I'm talking about Scout in conjunction with the Death Company detachment benefit (that gives a free 6" movement before the game starts, this is not a Scout move in itself).

Warhams-77 wrote:
A vehicle Scout move is actually 12" - not nearer than 18" if it can be seen though.

Still pretty cool for the Baal Predator in either of its forms. Scout definitely makes a Flamestorm Baal Predator more worthwhile. Especially if taken in the Death Company detachment. Getting a free 6" move (not sure if it can actually take advantage of it though), in addition to 12" Scout move, and then Fast movement, equals a Baal Predator that can go basically anywhere.

Oh, good point. Wow