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I don't think I ve ever had a battle where everything goes horribly wrong.

Okay so I have a hidden blade EC army vs a fairly nice balanced IW army with some Alpha vets. He's strung out so my plan is to flank him with my dread and Phoenix terminators since he has left his Iron Havocs, some veterans and a mortis without CC support. So I flank with a storm eagle and a full contemptor talon. They suceed in knocking out the mortis but not the rhino the vets were in. In his shooting phase he kills one dread from both squads. My turn I land my Phoenix and assault a nearby 5 man Kata squad. Then my dread go in. The vets immobilise one with an over watch attack. The other loses two hill points assaulting the Iron Havocs. He kills one guy. They lock the dreadnought in combat. I get half my terminators killed by shooting and a IW centurion charges the contemptor. My contemptor fails to Insta kill him and gets blown up. My Phoenix terminators then attempt a charge and only lose one guy to OW but are one inch out of charge range. The squad promptly gets gunned down.

Elsewhere the game was basically a turkey shoot with a sicaran and Fire raptor mulching assault
Marines and tacticals. Eidolon and his Palatine lost half their squad in one turn and ran off the board. I lost basically 30 marines on that flank in one turn and he made some full length charges which hit my guys badly. Command squad with power axes beats assault squad. The Storm eagle was now a slimmer and got pasted by the sicaran and fie raptor.

Basically everything that could go wrong went wrong. I knew I would struggle with his sicaran and Fire raptor but my assumption was that if ALl of my reserves landed and I got to charge then I would do enough damage to make up for it.

I am not sure how much to chalk this down the horrible luck or how much to army composition or the games bias towards shooting. Those Iron Havocs had auto cannons. They weren't even AT. I ll probably end up dropping my Kakophoni and Vets for a Fire raptor and have to did some way of fitting in another Storm Eagle for Eidolon. Also I am getting drop pods ready so I may consider taking some flamers or plasma guns or melta to nab some of his units in turn one.

What was the complete list you and he were fielding?

Man, the game would be so much better with just fixed charge ranges.

EC

Eidolon with 10 Pala with spear and JP

Champion with spear and jump pack

2 squads of 10 assault marines with melta bombs.

3 squads of ten tacticals

Veterans with bolters with a tooled up Praetor

10 Phoenix terminators in a storm eagle.

3 Contemptors with las cannons and chain forts

10 Kakophoni


Automatically Appended Next Post:
He had

Golg with ten claw terminators

5 terminators with p fist

20 breachers

10 assault marines

Champion and command squad with power aces and melta bombs

Fire raptor

Sicaran

2 squads of ten veterans with havoc rhinos

Assault
Cannon Mortis

Iron Havocs with auto cannons




Automatically Appended Next Post:
He also had some Alpha legion head hunters and an alpha special character.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Spoiler:

I don't think I ve ever had a battle where everything goes horribly wrong.

Okay so I have a hidden blade EC army vs a fairly nice balanced IW army with some Alpha vets. He's strung out so my plan is to flank him with my dread and Phoenix terminators since he has left his Iron Havocs, some veterans and a mortis without CC support. So I flank with a storm eagle and a full contemptor talon. They suceed in knocking out the mortis but not the rhino the vets were in. In his shooting phase he kills one dread from both squads. My turn I land my Phoenix and assault a nearby 5 man Kata squad. Then my dread go in. The vets immobilise one with an over watch attack. The other loses two hill points assaulting the Iron Havocs. He kills one guy. They lock the dreadnought in combat. I get half my terminators killed by shooting and a IW centurion charges the contemptor. My contemptor fails to Insta kill him and gets blown up. My Phoenix terminators then attempt a charge and only lose one guy to OW but are one inch out of charge range. The squad promptly gets gunned down.

Elsewhere the game was basically a turkey shoot with a sicaran and Fire raptor mulching assault
Marines and tacticals. Eidolon and his Palatine lost half their squad in one turn and ran off the board. I lost basically 30 marines on that flank in one turn and he made some full length charges which hit my guys badly. Command squad with power axes beats assault squad. The Storm eagle was now a slimmer and got pasted by the sicaran and fie raptor.

Basically everything that could go wrong went wrong. I knew I would struggle with his sicaran and Fire raptor but my assumption was that if ALl of my reserves landed and I got to charge then I would do enough damage to make up for it.

I am not sure how much to chalk this down the horrible luck or how much to army composition or the games bias towards shooting.

Spoiler:

Those Iron Havocs had auto cannons. They weren't even AT. I ll probably end up dropping my Kakophoni and Vets for a Fire raptor and have to did some way of fitting in another Storm Eagle for Eidolon. Also I am getting drop pods ready so I may consider taking some flamers or plasma guns or melta to nab some of his units in turn one.

Have you considered that it's your DICE that are fething you?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/That's_How_I_Roll_-_A_Scientific_Analysis_of_Dice

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Totalwar1402 wrote:

Spoiler:

I don't think I ve ever had a battle where everything goes horribly wrong.

Okay so I have a hidden blade EC army vs a fairly nice balanced IW army with some Alpha vets. He's strung out so my plan is to flank him with my dread and Phoenix terminators since he has left his Iron Havocs, some veterans and a mortis without CC support. So I flank with a storm eagle and a full contemptor talon. They suceed in knocking out the mortis but not the rhino the vets were in. In his shooting phase he kills one dread from both squads. My turn I land my Phoenix and assault a nearby 5 man Kata squad. Then my dread go in. The vets immobilise one with an over watch attack. The other loses two hill points assaulting the Iron Havocs. He kills one guy. They lock the dreadnought in combat. I get half my terminators killed by shooting and a IW centurion charges the contemptor. My contemptor fails to Insta kill him and gets blown up. My Phoenix terminators then attempt a charge and only lose one guy to OW but are one inch out of charge range. The squad promptly gets gunned down.

Elsewhere the game was basically a turkey shoot with a sicaran and Fire raptor mulching assault
Marines and tacticals. Eidolon and his Palatine lost half their squad in one turn and ran off the board. I lost basically 30 marines on that flank in one turn and he made some full length charges which hit my guys badly. Command squad with power axes beats assault squad. The Storm eagle was now a slimmer and got pasted by the sicaran and fie raptor.

Basically everything that could go wrong went wrong. I knew I would struggle with his sicaran and Fire raptor but my assumption was that if ALl of my reserves landed and I got to charge then I would do enough damage to make up for it.

I am not sure how much to chalk this down the horrible luck or how much to army composition or the games bias towards shooting.

Spoiler:

Those Iron Havocs had auto cannons. They weren't even AT. I ll probably end up dropping my Kakophoni and Vets for a Fire raptor and have to did some way of fitting in another Storm Eagle for Eidolon. Also I am getting drop pods ready so I may consider taking some flamers or plasma guns or melta to nab some of his units in turn one.

Have you considered that it's your DICE that are fething you?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/That's_How_I_Roll_-_A_Scientific_Analysis_of_Dice

I wish people would stop equaling precision dice with craps dice. Precision dice just means that they are manufactured to a certain standard, while craps dice a type of dice charactised by sharp edges.

And that "study" compared a limited number of cheap (non precision) dice to precision dice, which happened to be of the craps variety. Of course you're gonna have a difference when your dont have the same baseline.

What you probably want for anything outside of a craps table is the backgammon version of dice, which are also precision dice, but have rounded corners to allow for proper tumbling in a limited area.

http://asl-battleschool.blogspot.se/2011/06/what-precisely-are-precision-dice.html

Honestly that EC list is a little soft but it shouldnt have been so badly wrecked because that is also a pretty soft IW list. I think you have to chalk this one to bad dice rolls.
Maybe even try the new EC ROW as it really brings them what they need, relentless kakophani as troops allows you to put all your close combat murder in fast.

 King Amroth wrote:
Honestly that EC list is a little soft but it shouldnt have been so badly wrecked because that is also a pretty soft IW list. I think you have to chalk this one to bad dice rolls.
Maybe even try the new EC ROW as it really brings them what they need, relentless kakophani as troops allows you to put all your close combat murder in fast.

Oh yeah he could have fielded a much, much worse IW army. Quad mortars with phoshex, more Iron Havocs, Quad Land Raider with volites and outflanking castallax.

I think my armies problem is it needs another Storm Eagle/Caestus and probably a Fire Raptor to delete key units.

My basic plan was that the tacticals would hold objectives and tank for a few turns until my reserves arrive on turn 2.

Nah, the Kakophoni are horrible. Gets hot and AP5 guns when you could take autocannons or volk culverins for the same price. In this battle they killed 3 marines before being wrecked by the Iron Havocs. Who outranged them with their autocannons.

I mean I did kill a fair chunk of his stuff. Roughly..

10 Assault Marines

Command Squad

Rhino

5 Kataphracts

20 Breachers

2 Headhunter squads

Veteran Squad

Alpha Special Character

Gets hot worries you? hmm strange.
Relentless heavy weapons teams who score and allow you to put your points where they should be, such as assault squads, destroyer squads, bike squads, jetbike squads, kraken carrying lightnings, eidolon, maybe some palatine if you feel the urge, same for phoenix gaurd and also marksmen vet squads and sicarans.