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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 10:48:41
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Perot's great big sucking sound continues
http://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2016/09/14/mexico-ford-shiftng-us-car-production-mexico/90355146/
CEO Mark Fields told investors the move is part of plans to make production simpler and less expensive
Ford focus
(Photo: SAUL LOEB, AFP/Getty Images)
Ford plans to eventually shift all North American small-car production from the U.S. to Mexico, CEO Mark Fields told investors Tuesday, even though the company's production investments in Mexico have become a lightning rod for controversy in the presidential election.
"Over the next two to three years, we will have migrated all of our small-car production to Mexico and out of the United States," Fields said at a daylong investor conference in Dearborn.
The news sparked a fresh round of criticism of Ford from Republican Presidential candidate Donald Trump, who was campaigning in Flint on Wednesday.
"We shouldn’t allow it to happen. They’ll make their cars, they’ll employ thousands of people, not from this country, and they’ll sell their car across the border," Trump said during his visit. "When we send our jobs out of Michigan, we’re also sending our tax base."
The impact on Ford's U.S. employment will be minimal in the near-term. Ford already builds the Fiesta subcompact and the Fusion mid-size sedan in Mexico. There is an expectation that Ford will build a new Ranger mid-size pickup truck in Wayne and possibly a new Bronco compact sport-utility.
The automaker also still will make the Ford Mustang at its plant in Flat Rock, Michigan and will begin making the full-size Lincoln Continental there later this year. It also makes the full-size Ford Taurus in Chicago.
Ford isn't the first automaker to move small car production out of the U.S. Mexico has become an auto production Mecca for new industry investment, surpassing Canada in annual automotive production.
Fiat Chrysler Automobiles said earlier this year it will end production of all cars in the U.S. by the end of this year as it discontinues production of the Dodge Dart in Belvidere, Ill., and the Chrysler 200 in Sterling Heights, Mich.
Fields' announcement wasn't much of a surprise. Ford said in April it would invest $1.6 billion to build a new plant in Mexico and create 2,800 jobs so it can build small cars there. Ford also said in 2015 that it planned to move production of its Ford Focus and C-Max hybrids cars from a plant in Wayne, Mich., to another country by 2018.
It's an ironic twist for the Wayne because Ford spent $550 million in 2010 to convert the aging plant from a big SUV factory to one that could build the efficient Focus compact car.
The industry has known for decades that domestic manufacturers struggle to make a profit on small cars in the U.S.
In recent years, automakers that include General Motors, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Mazda, Toyota and Volkswagen have announced plans to either expand existing plants or build new ones in Mexico. Fiat Chrysler Automobiles also has said it is considering an expansion of its production there.
The number of auto jobs in Mexico reached 675,000 last year, a 40% increase from 2008. U.S. auto jobs increased 15% over the same period to more than 900,000, according to the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.
In addition to the North American Free Trade Agreement, automakers are also drawn to Mexico because of its lower wages, trade agreements with 44 other countries, a robust rail and shipping infrastructure and a workforce that has proven it can make high-quality cars.
Ford's decision to shift the assembly of small cars to Mexico can reduce costs to a point. But some of these cars are over-engineered.
For example, Fields said the current Ford Focus can be ordered in 300 different configurations of options and colors. Ford wants to reduce that to 30, which will make the production process simpler and less expensive.
Americans prefer larger vehicles, especially pickups and higher-riding SUVs and crossover vehicles for their personal use.
UAW President Dennis Williams also has repeatedly blasted Ford and other automakers for investing so much money in Mexico.
There is no reason, mathematically, to go ahead and run to countries like Mexico, Thailand and Taiwan, Williams said earlier this year. "We all recognize there is a huge problem in Mexico. So we have to address it as a nation. The UAW cannot do it alone. We are not naive."
Unifor, the Canadian union that represents autoworkers, also is struggling to hold on to its automotive industry. It is currently in negotiations with the Detroit Three over a contract that expires on Monday. Unifor is worried that three plants could close in the coming years if automakers refuse to commit to new investments.
Ford has said it continues to invest heavily in its U.S. plants and isn't cutting jobs here. Last fall, the automaker made a commitment to invest $9 billion in U.S. plants and create or retains more than 8,500 jobs as part of a new four-year contract with the UAW. Of that, $4.8 billion goes to 11 facilities in Michigan.
Ford is reassessing much of its business to prepare for a future when it needs to make cars for new modes of transport, to generate money from shared use, all without jeopardizing profits still generated by many of its cars and trucks.
The future of smaller cars in the U.S. may depend on the ability to electrify their powertrains and introduce them to ride-sharing fleets where they can generate revenue from fares paid by multiple riders.
Along those lines, Fields and other Ford executives Wednesday outlined an aggressive plan to invest $4.5 billion over the next four years in new battery-powered models in such segments as commercial vehicles, trucks, SUVs and performance vehicles.
Ford also reiterated its commitment to developing an autonomous vehicle by 2021 for use in a ride-hailing service. The company believes that autonomous vehicles could account for up to 20% of vehicle sales by 2030.
►Related: A safe, VERY safe ride in a self-driving Ford Fusion
►Mark Fields: Why Ford's purchase of shuttle service made sense
Investors didn't reward Ford or other U.S. automakers when they posted record profits last year and early this year. Now that U.S. sales are leveling off Wall Street is even less enthusiastic about the sector. Ford shares have fallen 12% from the beginning of the year from $14.09 to Tuesday's closing price of $12.38.
Fields spent the first half of his 45-minute presentation assuring analysts that Ford's core business remains strong, especially in its most profitable segments such as full-size pickup trucks, commercial vans and its resurgent Lincoln luxury brand.
Mark Fields, Ford CEO.
Mark Fields, Ford CEO. (Photo: Ford Motor Company)
But he also said the company must respond to a global shift away from personal vehicle ownership to one in which personal ownership will be challenged by on-demand shared mobility.
►Related: Ford to woo Wall Street with tech skills, investments
In exploring how a traditional manufacturer can profit in a market where the vehicle becomes a service platform, Fields said the first question he and fellow executives had to define is "What’s our point of view on autonomy?"
Contact Greg Gardner: 313-222-8762 or ggardner@freepress.com. Follow him on Twitter @GregGardner12. Free Press staff writer Kathleen Gray contributed.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 11:39:06
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Keeper of the Holy Orb of Antioch
avoiding the lorax on Crion
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As if trump needed more ammunition.
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Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 13:10:40
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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So they give you small family hatchbacks and you give them assault weapons. Nice symmetry!
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 13:16:20
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps
Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry
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Vote with your wallets as well as in the booths.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/15 13:16:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:39:11
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Fixture of Dakka
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I boycotted Ford long ago after I found out that through a Russian plant, they were cranking out military vehicles for North Vietnam during the war over there.
I love the whole "buy American" line of bs these companies put out while they all the time ship jobs out of the country.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:42:49
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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You want to buy American? Buy a Honda or Nissan. The domestic (and by that I mean US) content is substantially higher and they are typically classed as "domestic" for origin purposes. My boy's Honda is over 90% domestic content when the Ford Taurus was just a hair over 50%.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:43:33
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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Relapse wrote:
I love the whole "buy American" line of bs these companies put out while they all the time ship jobs out of the country.
I remember reading some report several years back that, at the time, the most "American" car (based on how much of it was made and assembled in America) was the Toyota Camry.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:44:59
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Longtime Dakkanaut
On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!
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Votes aren't going to bring those jobs back. Not a chance.
The rage and delusion of many Trump supporters with the whole "Make America Great Again" crap is borderline Jonestown-ian in it's Kool-Aid influence. The logic being that, what, Trump gets elected and suddenly all those shuttered factories in the Rust Belt come bustling back to life with droves of highly(over-) compensated union workers working assembly lines in some version of a romantic, post-WWII fantasy America? Ridiculous.
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world, has opened enormous markets of newly affluent middle classes to our exports. Yes, contrary to the click-bait pablum out there, America exports a significant amount of goods and services around the world...largest exporting country by 2014 stats and I think we're just behind China for 2015 due primarily to $ appreciation vs the Renminbi...afforded by the effects of the globalization that suddenly is chic to bash in certain political circles by those afraid to speak the truth of the story.
As to the Ford move, they're just part of the Mexican manufacturing and industrial boom going on south of our border. Which, if I was a right wing xenophobic loon, I might want to view as a good thing because the more affluent Mexico becomes, the less "rapists, criminals...blah, blah, blah" they'll send across our borders and the more tourists with $$$ in their pockets that will suddenly be visiting. Mexico with a vibrant economy means a stable, less crime ridden Mexico. A less crime ridden Mexico means less concern for the borderphobes, one would think.
Interesting global stats below from the World Bank on exactly this. Stats show comparison from 1960-2015, btw, US exports as %GDP rose during that period from 5% to 13%.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/09/15 14:47:52
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:46:03
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan
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Relapse wrote:I boycotted Ford long ago after I found out that through a Russian plant, they were cranking out military vehicles for North Vietnam during the war over there.
Do you have a source for this? I'd never heard this before and I can't immediately find a cite.
And as to what Frazzled said, I have a Honda. Someone once gave me gak about having a foreign car.. but my car was built in Ohio.
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lord_blackfang wrote:Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote:The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:58:08
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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BigWaaagh wrote:Votes aren't going to bring those jobs back. Not a chance.
The rage and delusion of many Trump supporters with the whole "Make America Great Again" crap is borderline Jonestown-ian in it's Kool-Aid influence. The logic being that, what, Trump gets elected and suddenly all those shuttered factories in the Rust Belt come bustling back to life with droves of highly(over-) compensated union workers working assembly lines in some version of a romantic, post-WWII fantasy America? Ridiculous.
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world, has opened enormous markets of newly affluent middle classes to our exports. Yes, contrary to the click-bait pablum out there, America exports a significant amount of goods and services around the world...largest exporting country by 2014 stats and I think we're just behind China for 2015 due primarily to $ appreciation vs the Renminbi...afforded by the effects of the globalization that suddenly is chic to bash in certain political circles by those afraid to speak the truth of the story.
As to the Ford move, they're just part of the Mexican manufacturing and industrial boom going on south of our border. Which, if I was a right wing xenophobic loon, I might want to view as a good thing because the more affluent Mexico becomes, the less "rapists, criminals...blah, blah, blah" they'll send across our borders and the more tourists with $$$ in their pockets that will suddenly be visiting. Mexico with a vibrant economy means a stable, less crime ridden Mexico. A less crime ridden Mexico means less concern for the borderphobes, one would think.
Interesting global stats below from the World Bank on exactly this. Stats show comparison from 1960-2015, btw, US exports as %GDP rose during that period from 5% to 13%.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS
None of that means gak when you watch your entire way of life get exported to another country. I've seen it up close and personal. Nothing says "this is gak" like trying to keep your dad from shooting himself because everything he did is gone, just gone and he'd been out of work for YEARs.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 14:58:53
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Fixture of Dakka
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Frazzled wrote:You want to buy American? Buy a Honda or Nissan. The domestic (and by that I mean US) content is substantially higher and they are typically classed as "domestic" for origin purposes. My boy's Honda is over 90% domestic content when the Ford Taurus was just a hair over 50%.
I bought a Honda eighteen years ago for $5,000. I just barely got rid of it for another one. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ouze wrote:Relapse wrote:I boycotted Ford long ago after I found out that through a Russian plant, they were cranking out military vehicles for North Vietnam during the war over there.
Do you have a source for this? I'd never heard this before and I can't immediately find a cite.
And as to what Frazzled said, I have a Honda. Someone once gave me gak about having a foreign car.. but my car was built in Ohio.
It was in a news story I read a while ago in the early 90's that was talking about the (then) current business climate. I can try to find a cite for you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/15 15:01:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:06:17
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world
While that's good for everyone else.. How exactly is that creating a better quality of life for the people still living here?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:10:49
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego
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The Ford thing sounds suspiciously like a garbled updating of their WW II activities.
Or maybe their stuff with the Soviets in the 30s.
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The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:16:08
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Fixture of Dakka
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reds8n wrote: The Ford thing sounds suspiciously like a garbled updating of their WW II activities.
Or maybe their stuff with the Soviets in the 30s.
Stalin loved Ford for opening up a plant in Russia in '29, that's for sure.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:28:06
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Longtime Dakkanaut
On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!
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Frazzled wrote: BigWaaagh wrote:Votes aren't going to bring those jobs back. Not a chance.
The rage and delusion of many Trump supporters with the whole "Make America Great Again" crap is borderline Jonestown-ian in it's Kool-Aid influence. The logic being that, what, Trump gets elected and suddenly all those shuttered factories in the Rust Belt come bustling back to life with droves of highly(over-) compensated union workers working assembly lines in some version of a romantic, post-WWII fantasy America? Ridiculous.
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world, has opened enormous markets of newly affluent middle classes to our exports. Yes, contrary to the click-bait pablum out there, America exports a significant amount of goods and services around the world...largest exporting country by 2014 stats and I think we're just behind China for 2015 due primarily to $ appreciation vs the Renminbi...afforded by the effects of the globalization that suddenly is chic to bash in certain political circles by those afraid to speak the truth of the story.
As to the Ford move, they're just part of the Mexican manufacturing and industrial boom going on south of our border. Which, if I was a right wing xenophobic loon, I might want to view as a good thing because the more affluent Mexico becomes, the less "rapists, criminals...blah, blah, blah" they'll send across our borders and the more tourists with $$$ in their pockets that will suddenly be visiting. Mexico with a vibrant economy means a stable, less crime ridden Mexico. A less crime ridden Mexico means less concern for the borderphobes, one would think.
Interesting global stats below from the World Bank on exactly this. Stats show comparison from 1960-2015, btw, US exports as %GDP rose during that period from 5% to 13%.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS
None of that means gak when you watch your entire way of life get exported to another country. I've seen it up close and personal. Nothing says "this is gak" like trying to keep your dad from shooting himself because everything he did is gone, just gone and he'd been out of work for YEARs.
There isn't a single sector of our economy that hasn't been touched by this, so you're not alone. Of course it doesn't reconcile when you're hit on a personal level, I'm genuinely sorry to hear about your father's experience, but this is the nature of money and capitalism. Change is the one constant and it's adaption or obsolescence. You can't have the "good" without the "bad", but with that said, for every story like yours there's a flipside story. I'm not belittling your personal experience, but my post, and the point I made, has to be taken with an objective perspective.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:28:23
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Frazzled wrote: BigWaaagh wrote:Votes aren't going to bring those jobs back. Not a chance.
The rage and delusion of many Trump supporters with the whole "Make America Great Again" crap is borderline Jonestown-ian in it's Kool-Aid influence. The logic being that, what, Trump gets elected and suddenly all those shuttered factories in the Rust Belt come bustling back to life with droves of highly(over-) compensated union workers working assembly lines in some version of a romantic, post-WWII fantasy America? Ridiculous.
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world, has opened enormous markets of newly affluent middle classes to our exports. Yes, contrary to the click-bait pablum out there, America exports a significant amount of goods and services around the world...largest exporting country by 2014 stats and I think we're just behind China for 2015 due primarily to $ appreciation vs the Renminbi...afforded by the effects of the globalization that suddenly is chic to bash in certain political circles by those afraid to speak the truth of the story.
As to the Ford move, they're just part of the Mexican manufacturing and industrial boom going on south of our border. Which, if I was a right wing xenophobic loon, I might want to view as a good thing because the more affluent Mexico becomes, the less "rapists, criminals...blah, blah, blah" they'll send across our borders and the more tourists with $$$ in their pockets that will suddenly be visiting. Mexico with a vibrant economy means a stable, less crime ridden Mexico. A less crime ridden Mexico means less concern for the borderphobes, one would think.
Interesting global stats below from the World Bank on exactly this. Stats show comparison from 1960-2015, btw, US exports as %GDP rose during that period from 5% to 13%.
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NE.EXP.GNFS.ZS
None of that means gak when you watch your entire way of life get exported to another country. I've seen it up close and personal. Nothing says "this is gak" like trying to keep your dad from shooting himself because everything he did is gone, just gone and he'd been out of work for YEARs.
That's always a tough issue. The free market dictates to move to the area of lowest cost, and there are real tangible benefits to raising other areas out of poverty, but what do you do with the leftover workers? In theory you retrain them for different work that is still needed, but that may require a major geographic move, and for older workers who dont have much time leftbin the workplace but cant afford to be out yet often suffer the worst as retraining has the least benefit and job searchung is practically impossible and there havent been many good solutions yet that dont involve hurting others even more by implementing protectionist policies that then cripple marketplace competitiveness.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0019/10/24 15:32:14
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Frazzled wrote:You want to buy American? Buy a Honda or Nissan. The domestic (and by that I mean US) content is substantially higher and they are typically classed as "domestic" for origin purposes. My boy's Honda is over 90% domestic content when the Ford Taurus was just a hair over 50%.
That's been my version of "buying American".
I don't care where the ultimate corporate profits end up, I'll buy from American workers. If the "foreign" car is simply a foreign company building domestically and employing domestic workers, they get my dollars. I don't buy "American" if all it means is an American executive getting the profit from a car build in a foreign country by foreign workers.
That and quality. I refuse to buy a crap product just to wrap myself in a "buy American" flag.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:40:25
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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d-usa wrote: Frazzled wrote:You want to buy American? Buy a Honda or Nissan. The domestic (and by that I mean US) content is substantially higher and they are typically classed as "domestic" for origin purposes. My boy's Honda is over 90% domestic content when the Ford Taurus was just a hair over 50%.
That's been my version of "buying American".
I don't care where the ultimate corporate profits end up, I'll buy from American workers. If the "foreign" car is simply a foreign company building domestically and employing domestic workers, they get my dollars. I don't buy "American" if all it means is an American executive getting the profit from a car build in a foreign country by foreign workers.
That and quality. I refuse to buy a crap product just to wrap myself in a "buy American" flag.
1,000 times yes. Automatically Appended Next Post: Its not a free market. Its a negotiated market. Anyone's who is in the business and studied some of the trade agreements (NAFTA on my end) knows there is no "free market" involved.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/15 15:41:52
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:43:16
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Longtime Dakkanaut
On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!
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ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world
While that's good for everyone else.. How exactly is that creating a better quality of life for the people still living here?
It's really not a matter of "...the people still living here?", or there, or anywhere for that matter. And understand, I'm not being cold to the plight of people affected by this, but this is the nature of capitalism. Money seeks opportunity and companies seek the best return for their shareholders, period. Labor, particularly low skilled, is being exported by every country...lots of European and Asian auto makers down in Mexico!...or is being replaced wholesale through technology. I'm sure in upcoming years we'll hear about those factories currently being built in Mexico becoming more and more automated and the Mexican workers being laid off.
So a bit more directly to your point, as I mentioned in my previous post, the exportation of jobs creates wealth in a country that usually is in dire need of it...hence the abundance of cheap labor...and that creates a middle class with money to spend, and an opportunity to sell into it with our products and services. That means jobs and services here, selling over there. That also means less expensive goods available here. That means opportunity in higher paying fields over here, i.e. lawyers, bankers, accountants, engineers, architects, etc. that can now market their expertise to these growing economies created by their growth/establishment of a healthy, upwardly mobile base now in need of those services.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/09/15 15:59:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:47:27
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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BigWaaagh wrote: ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world
While that's good for everyone else.. How exactly is that creating a better quality of life for the people still living here?
It's really not a matter of "...the people still living here?", or there, or anywhere for that matter. And understand, I'm not being cold to the plight of people affected by this, but this is the nature of capitalism. Money seeks opportunity and companies seek the best return for their shareholders, period. Labor, particularly low skilled, is being exported by every country...lots of European and Asian auto makers down in Mexico!...or is being replaced through technology. I'm sure in upcoming years we'll hear about those factories currently being built in Mexico becoming more and more automated and the Mexican workers being laid off.
So a bit more directly to your point, as I mentioned in my previous point, the exportation of jobs creates wealth in a country that usually is in dire need of it...hence the abundance of cheap labor...and that creates a middle class with money to spend, and an opportunity to sell into with our products and services. That means jobs and services here, selling over there. That means less expensive goods available here. That means opportunity in higher paying fields over here, i.e. lawyers, accountants, engineers, architects that can now market their expertise to this growing economy created by the growth/establishment of a healthy, upwardly mobile base now in need of those services.
Thats the argument, hwoever our trade balances with these countries have done nothing but deteriorated. In actuality wealth is transferred. A small group benefits but the majority do not.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:48:10
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
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Stick an import tax on them, so it's cheaper to make them at home. sorted
It always amazes me, that manufacturers think they can produce cheaper abroad, And still sell at home, to people without jobs.
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Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men.
Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 15:56:44
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Longtime Dakkanaut
On a surly Warboar, leading the Waaagh!
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loki old fart wrote:Stick an import tax on them, so it's cheaper to make them at home. sorted
It always amazes me, that manufacturers think they can produce cheaper abroad, And still sell at home, to people without jobs.
Protectionism is the great lie. It doesn't work. If you want to see suffering, watch what happens when export markets and the access to inexpensive goods and services dry up.
As for producing cheaper abroad, the only other options are either survival by aggressive automation or close. That's it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/09/15 16:10:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 16:12:02
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar
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loki old fart wrote:Stick an import tax on them, so it's cheaper to make them at home. sorted
It always amazes me, that manufacturers think they can produce cheaper abroad, And still sell at home, to people without jobs.
Wasn’t it Ford who made sure his workers made enough money to buy his products?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 16:14:53
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander
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More likely made his cars cheap enough for them to afford.
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How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 16:21:52
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Fixture of Dakka
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d-usa wrote: Frazzled wrote:You want to buy American? Buy a Honda or Nissan. The domestic (and by that I mean US) content is substantially higher and they are typically classed as "domestic" for origin purposes. My boy's Honda is over 90% domestic content when the Ford Taurus was just a hair over 50%.
That's been my version of "buying American".
I don't care where the ultimate corporate profits end up, I'll buy from American workers. If the "foreign" car is simply a foreign company building domestically and employing domestic workers, they get my dollars. I don't buy "American" if all it means is an American executive getting the profit from a car build in a foreign country by foreign workers.
That and quality. I refuse to buy a crap product just to wrap myself in a "buy American" flag.
I could kiss you right now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 16:56:02
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I buy dodge because Canada>all
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I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 17:06:56
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
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ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I've lived long enough to see the rotation of "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in China", "Made in Viet Nam", "Made in India", "Made in Mexico"...and it's lead to a global lift of people out of poverty, which, besides creating a significantly overall better quality of life for huge swaths of the people of the world
While that's good for everyone else.. How exactly is that creating a better quality of life for the people still living here?
It's a "in the long run/big picture" thing. However, making the world a better place is little comfort when you're paying the price.
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"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 17:09:40
Subject: Re:Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Frazzled wrote:Thats the argument, hwoever our trade balances with these countries have done nothing but deteriorated. In actuality wealth is transferred. A small group benefits but the majority do not.
That's how western economy system works. For one person to be rich many have to be poor. Until current economic system meets the inevitable end many people are doomed for poverty.
If people think unemployed in USA(or in other 1st world countries) have it hard they should remember they still have it fairly well because others have to be even worse for them to be have it as good as they have it...
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 17:12:28
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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I had a 2010 Ford Escape. It was great at first, but eventually had so many problems and kept nickel-and-diming me till I got rid of it this past xmas.. The radio only worked when it wanted to and it was some crazy custom ford radio that would cost $1000 to fix. I always had a tire pressure warning light even though my tires were perfect, even got brand new tires and that didn't fix it. And the last straw was when my trunk decided it didn't feel like opening anymore. Apparently, Ford used some crap insulating window stuff on the back windows which leaked every time it rained.. not a big leak, but I always had faint water streaks going down the back window that I always had to clean. Turns out that water was dripping down into the lock mechanism and it rusts it away till it breaks and one day you just can't open it anymore. It was a known issue and I found plenty of youtube videos telling me how to fix it myself, but I didn't care anymore.
So I traded it in for a 2015 Jeep Renegade. Lots of fun to drive, no problems yet.. was built in italy, and i'm italian, so that's OK by me. What I really wanted was a Chrysler 300, but my girlfriend wouldn't let me buy an "old person car"
Best and most reliable car I ever owned was a 2004 Honda Element.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/09/15 17:21:26
Subject: Ford shifting ALL small car production to Mexico
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Fixture of Dakka
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Necros wrote:I had a 2010 Ford Escape. It was great at first, but eventually had so many problems and kept nickel-and-diming me till I got rid of it this past xmas.. The radio only worked when it wanted to and it was some crazy custom ford radio that would cost $1000 to fix. I always had a tire pressure warning light even though my tires were perfect, even got brand new tires and that didn't fix it. And the last straw was when my trunk decided it didn't feel like opening anymore. Apparently, Ford used some crap insulating window stuff on the back windows which leaked every time it rained.. not a big leak, but I always had faint water streaks going down the back window that I always had to clean. Turns out that water was dripping down into the lock mechanism and it rusts it away till it breaks and one day you just can't open it anymore. It was a known issue and I found plenty of youtube videos telling me how to fix it myself, but I didn't care anymore.
So I traded it in for a 2015 Jeep Renegade. Lots of fun to drive, no problems yet.. was built in italy, and i'm italian, so that's OK by me. What I really wanted was a Chrysler 300, but my girlfriend wouldn't let me buy an "old person car"
Best and most reliable car I ever owned was a 2004 Honda Element.
You do realize Ford stands for Fix Or Repair Daily, don't you?
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