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It kind of makes the Orls from 40k seem really weak. I mean unless there's going to be a 40k IronJaws faction they are not even in te same league.

Aside from all the crazy galaxy conquering Death Stars and turning Ullanor into Ork Cybertrom. Your typical Ork in te beast arises is like twelve foot tall and big enough to trample a lesser Ork underfoot. Basically every Ork is a size class bigger. A boy as big as a nob. A nob as big as a boss.

Probably the best example of this is "The Beasts". Because yes there's actually one for each of the 6 Ork clans. The leader is oddly enough a Goff like Ghazgull. Except this ones super intelligent, is 10 metres tall and can take on a Primarch and WIN. This totally eclipses Ghazgull as the big bad. Again I dunno, maybe GW will update his model to reflect that. One of the sub bosses of te clans had two battle cannons (among other weapons) built into his arm. That's how big the bosses are.

My assumption was always that the Orks are the greatest threat and most powerful they've ever been during the 41st millennium. The Beast storyline really seems to undermine that on a number of levels.

Orks grow bigger the more they fight, they also adapt tech and get smarter progressively to match any threat, now imagine the power of the legions, the Orks will grow to fight that, they will also have been fighting, unchecked, for millenia, this can easily explain the level of tech and the size of these Orks, the reason the 40k ones are not as big is because they never reach that scale of empire or waagh.

The ones who wrote the Beast books did not understand that the Orks were supposed to lose, and did not pay a lot of attention to the setting in general.

The books are full of absurdities and make the likes of Ghazghkull and and Snagrod completely irrelevant.

I prefer to just disregard the books entirely, like Goto fiction.

Yeah but the 41st millennium is the end times. Everything should be the greatest threat to the Imperium.

Yeah I think they've greatly overdone how much damage the Orks could achieve. I d even go as far to say they've done more damage than the Heresy and that's not how it should go down.

Im pretty sure even before the Beast Arises series came out, The Beast and his Waagh! in what little we knew about them were always mentioned as the biggest threat the Imperium faced since the Heresy and was the last super threat prior to the 13th Black Crusade.

So far though I am not deep into the series at all, infact I'm only on book 1 (Abnet just cant hold me to the pages anymore and the Wall Companies and Nicknames of the Imperial Fists are really off putting), but I have liked the looks into Imperial Politics so far.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The ones who wrote the Beast books did not understand that the Orks were supposed to lose, and did not pay a lot of attention to the setting in general.

The books are full of absurdities and make the likes of Ghazghkull and and Snagrod completely irrelevant.

I prefer to just disregard the books entirely, like Goto fiction.

Yeah, me too.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The ones who wrote the Beast books did not understand that the Orks were supposed to lose, and did not pay a lot of attention to the setting in general.

The books are full of absurdities and make the likes of Ghazghkull and and Snagrod completely irrelevant.

I prefer to just disregard the books entirely, like Goto fiction.

again, no it doesn't, it fits completely with the established fluff for orks, these are orks that have been fighting since the war in heaven, Ullanor had orks of similar size and comparable tech, both the ullanor orks and the beasts orks were wiped out, leaving smaller empires of orks, these orks were not as large or well equipped, chalk on 10k years of the imperium constantly thinning them out before they can reach beast or ullanor size and you get 40k orks, then ghazghull comes along, leviathan too, and orks start to resemble the ullanor orks and beast orks, we don't know how old the beast is, he could be thousands of years old for all we know.

So explain why there was absolutely nothing about the Beast before he suddently appeared, attacked, and then died.

Orks are not humble, subtle, or patient. If a galaxy-conquering Ork had stomped around, increasing in size and military strength since the War in Heaven, someone would have noticed!

Definitely. I haven't seen the Ullanor bit, but multiple "beasts" seems wierd.

After all, orks were huge and scary the last time the Imperium was there (that's why it's 'the' battle of the great crusade) but the Imperium did kill them kind of thoroughly.

 Ashiraya wrote:
So explain why there was absolutely nothing about the Beast before he suddently appeared, attacked, and then died.

Orks are not humble, subtle, or patient. If a galaxy-conquering Ork had stomped around, increasing in size and military strength since the War in Heaven, someone would have noticed!

Easily explained, there was a void in the fluff post scouring, how did the imperium of then, become the soul crushing imperium of now, so bl decided to fill the gap.

Orks are subtle, patient and very intelligent, when they need to be, not in the same way humans are, but they exist, ghazghull is very intelligent, snikrot is very subtle and patient.

As to where they came from, the universe if very very big, so is our galaxy, this Ork empire of a few thousand systems could easily exist and not be known about, and sure, someone may have noticed, but not lived to tell.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
It kind of makes the Orls from 40k seem really weak.

This isn't an issue with the beast arises its an issue with the 40k ork codex.
There is much more fluff about the less primitive stages of ork culture if you know where to look for it.
Those attack moons are extreme but there is much more and even stranger stuff out there.

 Formosa wrote:


Easily explained, there was a void in the fluff post scouring, how did the imperium of then, become the soul crushing imperium of now, so bl decided to fill the gap.

Orks are subtle, patient and very intelligent, when they need to be, not in the same way humans are, but they exist, ghazghull is very intelligent, snikrot is very subtle and patient.

As to where they came from, the universe if very very big, so is our galaxy, this Ork empire of a few thousand systems could easily exist and not be known about, and sure, someone may have noticed, but not lived to tell.

Unlikely. Too much of a perfect storm.

Even if this Knight-sized genius super-Ork somehow decided to stay low, his fellow Orks would not be so subtle about it.

There is just no plausible way he could have hid himself from the prying eyes of the galaxy for millennia. And hiding for millennia is not something any Ork would do, smart or not.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
My assumption was always that the Orks are the greatest threat and most powerful they've ever been during the 41st millennium.

Not even close. Orks have fallen even deeper than the eldar have. Sure they are everywhere in the 41th millennium but their entire ruling caste that united the lowly grunts we now call orks has been annihilated even before the first man was born.


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 Ashiraya wrote:


There is just no plausible way he could have hid himself from the prying eyes of the galaxy for millennia. And hiding for millennia is not something any Ork would do, smart or not.

Space is big. Really big and the current IoM is kinda insignificant in the bigger spacial picture. Who knows if the beast was hiding. He could as well be having a good party somewhere in the deep space until some pompous rogue trade challenged him to set sail to Terra by making bold claims about how the god emperors would crush them all.


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Its kinda the same with Tyranids. The Ork codex and the Tyranid codexes both poorly represent the entire scope of their force. Instead they just seem to focus on the light forces the imperium is likely to encounter.