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I'm going to be ending my long period of procrastination and will be starting to collect another army in the next few weeks so I've been planning out my purchases. Initially this will be a fairly small army as I'm hoping to do this on a budget of £200-£300, 1000-1500+ points is the target ideally with a bit of scope to vary my army lists from time to time.
The end result will be a combined Adeptus Mechanicus army because of the endless allies possibilities it gives me that I can add later on.

One of the issues I'm having right now is deciding whether to start this off only with Skitarii or if I should dive straight in and start with some Cult Mechanicus as well. So my first question is how viable are Skitarii without any allies? Mainly, can I pump out enough anti-tank while still keeping enough anti-infantry in a TAC list?

So far I'm thinking about 30-40 Skitarii infantry (a mix of plasma caliver Vanguard, naked Vanguard and arc rifle Rangers), 2-4 Onager Dunecrawlers (probably magnetised) and a couple of Sydonian Dragoons (taser lances). I'll be getting at least one Start Collecting! Skitarii box so I'll also have one or more Tech-Priests as well. Does this give me flexibility against infantry-based, MC-based and vehicle-based lists of both shooting and assault-centric armies? Do I need more counter-assault units? Would I really benefit from some Sicarians, Heavy Grav Cannon Destroyers/Heavy Arc Rifle Breachers and Phosphor Kastellans?

Any comments are appreciated, I feel out of my depth here

Skitarii can handle themselves really well at ~1000 points, assuming you can remember to use every special rule they have (and there's alot to forget).
They've got a solution for everything, but when you start to go up against some serious enemies, you'd best bring the Cult along.
Vanguard certainly can take down MC's all fine and dandy like, but for the tough jobs, you should take Grav Kataphrons.

Mainly, can I pump out enough anti-tank while still keeping enough anti-infantry in a TAC list?

I'd say this is one of the strong points about Skitarii.
They have anti-infantry by the bucket load with both Rangers and Vanguard, but they do require you to get close.

Does this give me flexibility against infantry-based, MC-based and vehicle-based lists of both shooting and assault-centric armies?

Vanguard cover both Anti-Infantry and Anti-MC, but they might have some issues dealing with Infantry and MC's of the Tau kind.
When dealing with vehicles, you can be pretty happy with either a Dunecrawler with a Neutron Laser sat in a corner, or one(or 3?) with Eradication Beamers that will march up the board in support of Vanguard; The Erad Beamers will allow you to start melting infrantry from double the range of the Vanguard. Once the troops get in range, the Beamer should then be focused on vehicles, as it'll be S8 AP3 by that point.
If you can keep walking up, you end up with a straight S10 AP1 shot that probably will blow something up.
- In addition to Beamer shenanigans, you'll have troops about the crawler to benefit from the Data Tether and Mindscanner probe, which should cover dealing with Assault armies.

But another thing you can use for Anti-Assault is having a Tech Priest walk around with the Raiment of the Technomartyr, giving any unit he's attatched to Cognis Weapons.
The priest is an Independent Character, so you can move him in and out of units as you please.

As for Phosphor; the guns available to the Skitarii for that very rarely prove effective. If you want to use Phosphor, I can only recommend Kastellans for that.
And if you really can't stand facing dakka-reffic armies, ram a Cohort Cybernetica down their throats. More Robots + More shot fired at them = More shots reflected at them.
If you're lucky, you can one-shot a Landraider by reflecting a lascannon shot, or obliterate a missile pod Stormsurge by having a go against ~50 rockets at once.

A serious point to make about the Cult is that it's, basically, and army of Elites. They can really get the job done, but they have large point costs for it, leaving less for more TACiness.

Thanks for the insightful comment. Most of my games will be against the so-called 'lower tier' armies so thankfully I haven't got to aim for the most powerful combinations possible so perhaps I can hold off on the Kataphrons and Kastellans for the time being.

I'm glad to hear the Vanguard prove so versatile as I was planning for my infantry to mostly be comprised of them with the Rangers tasked with all the Haywire I can muster. Assuming I'm taking one or two Dunecrawlers with Neutron Lasers do you think that 2 x 5 man Ranger squads with 2 x Arc Rifles each will be enough dedicated anti-tank? I could always take one more unit of Rangers equipped like that. Bearing in mind I'll potentially be facing Iron Warriors style CSM and a Knight, Rhino rush etc. I'll have to find some more bits for the extra Alphas I'll need for these small squads.

It's good to hear some love for the Eradication Beamers; they look like a great, unique support weapon for the troops. Nice and cheap as well. The data tether and mindscanner probe seem to mesh nicely with this loadout but I guess I'll leave them at home on any Neutron Lasers or Icarus Arrays. I think you've helped solidify in my mind that I would do well from buying a few of the Start Collecting sets, I can always sell a couple of the Tech-Priests and use the money from that for some extra bits I'll need.

Following from that what upgrades are worthwhile for the Alphas and basic guys? An Omnispex on any unit with special weapons seems to be a no-brainer, so that rules out enhanced data tethers but what about the pistols - is the extra cost worth swapping a galvanic rifle for an arc pistol or a rad carbine for a phosphor blast pistol? I'm going to assume it's never worth getting a melee weapon, if I want melee I'll go for a dedicated unit.

Are the Dragoons going to bring me much benefit? Their points cost is modest but the cost in money is... less so. Fantastic models though so I would love to have two or three. Not falling for the Phosphor Onager trap is good advice but the phosphor serpentas on the Dragoons look pretty good, 18" range and great synergy with my infantry as well as the boon to the Dragoon itself.

Is it worth fielding the SC!S Dominus Maniple formation? In the absence of any Cult Mechanicus units I'd love to still be able to field the Tech-Priest. My thoughts on that so far are Tech-Priest and 10 man Vanguard squad with 3 x plasma caliver supported by a data tether, mind scanner probe and eradication beamer Onager, or alternatively using 10 man Rangers with 3 x arc rifles supported by a neutron laser Onager instead. Although not getting Scout for the plasma caliver Vanguard seems like a high price to pay for the re-rolls when I can just have a Preferred Enemy Alpha to mitigate Gets Hot!.

I only use Skitarii pure for the most part outside of having experimented with different allied transports.

The key is really using terrain and making sure you have enough meat shields for your special weapons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I only use Skitarii pure for the most part outside of having experimented with different allied transports.

The key is really using terrain and making sure you have enough meat shields for your special weapons.

I would love to try that but with the FAQ as it is I won't bother, I'll just hope that Forgeworld provide us with transports in the future.
Do you find two special weapons in a 5 man unit gives enough protection or do you go for the full size units instead instead?

do you think that 2 x 5 man Ranger squads with 2 x Arc Rifles each will be enough dedicated anti-tank?

I'd give the Alphas Arc Pistols and Arc Mauls, just for the extra anti-tankiness, but also to note that the Arc Maul has Concussive, which could help make sure these chaps can atleast do something if they get tied up in CC.
I'd also make sure to give those alphas Digital Weapons; Rerolling a failed wound roll on a weapon with Concussive is very nice indeed.

what upgrades are worthwhile for the Alphas and basic guys?

Rangers typically hang around holding on to objectives; I'd give one of the Ranger Alphas Arkhan's divinator.
I'd also give a Vanguard Alpha Pater Radium; synergises with their Rad-saturation passive. You might typically find yourself using Vanguard to tie up shooting infrantry, like guardsmen or fire warriors, and they already have a low toughness.
If you're using Neutron Dunecrawlers, give the Vanguard Data-tethers, and the Rangers the Omnispex.
If you're using Erad Dunecrawlers, give the Rangers Data-tethers, and the Vanguard the Omnispex.
I personally dislike the Transauranic Arquebus, simply because of how much a bugger I find the Sniper rule to be; I find these guns to be nowhere near as effective as they should for their cost. I used them a few times to try and crack open Rhinos before they even moved, but persistently failed to do so.
I never want my Alphas to stay alive bad enough to warrant taking Conversion Fields on them; having to take a Blind test on a bunch of shooty guys, who are all I3, is not ideal. Just stick with the Refractor fields; a 5+ invuln is pretty good, and there's always Lookout, Sir! anyway.

- And give the Infiltrator Princeps the Phase Taser, if you're going to use these guys. Neurostatic reduces nearby enemies' initiative by 1, which synergises with this relic. (And along with the fact you can give these guys tasers anyway).

is the extra cost worth swapping a galvanic rifle for an arc pistol or a rad carbine for a phosphor blast pistol?

Swapping Galvos: Yes, Rad Carbines? No, unless you're going for a Rad Pistol so you can take a melée weapon.

Are the Dragoons going to bring me much benefit?

One on its own isn't, but the Sydonians' effectiveness with the Taser Lances is multiplicative with the more you have.
If I'm not using the Ironstrider Cavaliers formation, I'm just using Taser Dragoons. But when I am using the Ironstriders, I'm using the Radium Jezzails; Tall sniping platform with cover out in the open, rerolling failed Wounds on a precision shot Rad weapon? Yes please.
If you're looking to along the Assault route, for the ultimate AdMech face smashing experience, send the different units down in waves: Dragoons -> Rust Stalkers -> Infiltrators -> Vanguard -> Electropriests. Using the toughest units to tie up targets, quite often on turn 2, allowing the squishy guys to catch up unmolested. Getting in to CC to start with is the tough bit; from there on it should be a breeze.

I should also mention the mind games you can play with Vanguard and Erad Beamers: Very easy to sort out, separate, and control where your opponent moves their units around the battlefield, based on what they do/don't want to get close to.
You can get up to some hilarious stuff by pulling off the Conga-line Assault, and following it up on stragglers with the Erad crawlers. I'll leave you to imagine what you can get up to.

Not falling for the Phosphor Onager trap is good advice

But it is actually alright to fall for if you're using the SC formation. Rerolls on Phosphor guns is a good way to get Luminagen applied. (worth giving the Alpha a Phosphor pistol here, too).
However, I find there's better things to field when you're going in excess of 500 points. This formation loadout is best suited to small games.

but the phosphor serpentas on the Dragoons look pretty good

It absolutely is. Always give the Dragoons serpentas; even the Sniping ones.

Is it worth fielding the SC!S Dominus Maniple formation?

Oh aye; a list comprised of 3 of these, along with some other stuff like Sicarians is really nifty. This formation has a very handy ability; might aswell use it.

xlDuke wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I only use Skitarii pure for the most part outside of having experimented with different allied transports.

The key is really using terrain and making sure you have enough meat shields for your special weapons.

I would love to try that but with the FAQ as it is I won't bother, I'll just hope that Forgeworld provide us with transports in the future.
Do you find two special weapons in a 5 man unit gives enough protection or do you go for the full size units instead instead?

You need the full size. They're super easy to kill and you need lots of wounds outside of Rangers, which get the advantage of being ignored while everything else marches forward.

So full size Vanguard with special weapons but small Rangers with special weapons it is. You play in a pretty competitive meta right, Slayer-Fan? What do you find is your biggest weakness and what targets do you striggle against when running solo Skitarii?

Thanks for the reply Buddingsquaw, I'll take another look at the relics - I had left them out of my theory lists to get more bodies but I've got about 100 points spare to play around with for a 1500 list. Trying to plan ahead so I can be completely WYSIWYG from the start. Great tips on when and when not to use pistols and melee weapons, sounds very logical.

The Phosphor on the Onagers is already twin-linked so it doesn't get the most from the Dominus Maniple, whereas I figured a re-rolling neutron laser or eradication beamer would really benefit, particularly as the latter might be firing at infantry near the Vanguard.

So it sounds like the Sicarians aren't a necessity, I'm sure to pick some up later but for this first purchase I think I'll leave them behind and rely on some Dragoons to fill a similar role.

xlDuke wrote:
So full size Vanguard with special weapons but small Rangers with special weapons it is. You play in a pretty competitive meta right, Slayer-Fan? What do you find is your biggest weakness and what targets do you striggle against when running solo Skitarii?

Thanks for the reply Buddingsquaw, I'll take another look at the relics - I had left them out of my theory lists to get more bodies but I've got about 100 points spare to play around with for a 1500 list. Trying to plan ahead so I can be completely WYSIWYG from the start. Great tips on when and when not to use pistols and melee weapons, sounds very logical.

The Phosphor on the Onagers is already twin-linked so it doesn't get the most from the Dominus Maniple, whereas I figured a re-rolling neutron laser or eradication beamer would really benefit, particularly as the latter might be firing at infantry near the Vanguard.

So it sounds like the Sicarians aren't a necessity, I'm sure to pick some up later but for this first purchase I think I'll leave them behind and rely on some Dragoons to fill a similar role.

Biggest issue is Eldar for sure. Oddly not WraithKnights as there's enough wound causing for that to be less an issue, but Scatter bikes and Warp Spiders put on tons of wounds. Dragoons have been a godsend but they have to make it there. People run minimum Warp Spiders and on average on the charge a Dragoon will kill maybe three. So with good rolls you can eliminate them, and you can keep Scatter bikes locked in combat forever.
However, cover only helps them so much.

I posted my last pure Skitarii list in the AdMech discussion thread so maybe you can look at that for inspiration. It isn't terribly optimized but oh well.

That's somewhat a relief, I'll only rarely be playing Eldar and the guy doesn't have any bikes as of yet. Last time it was a Wraith construct list and before that it was mostly Guardians backed up by some tanks, War Walkers and a WK. Nothing too terrifying for Skitarii I dont think and I'm glad to hear WKs are at least manageable.

Excellent, thanks. I'll be sure to check it out the list and some more of that topic. I'm not going for total optimisation here either, but my other army is Orks so I'm really looking for something with more crunch.

xlDuke wrote:
That's somewhat a relief, I'll only rarely be playing Eldar and the guy doesn't have any bikes as of yet. Last time it was a Wraith construct list and before that it was mostly Guardians backed up by some tanks, War Walkers and a WK. Nothing too terrifying for Skitarii I dont think and I'm glad to hear WKs are at least manageable.

Excellent, thanks. I'll be sure to check it out the list and some more of that topic. I'm not going for total optimisation here either, but my other army is Orks so I'm really looking for something with more crunch.

You'll definitely have a hard time with the objective game vs Necrons as that will swing many ways, and while Gladius has OS on everything you can easily kill them while they don't have much to kill you.

When I get home I can do a better analysis of each match up if you need it

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You'll definitely have a hard time with the objective game vs Necrons as that will swing many ways, and while Gladius has OS on everything you can easily kill them while they don't have much to kill you.

When I get home I can do a better analysis of each match up if you need it

I appreciate that but it would mostly be wasted on me, I generally only play against CSM, Demons, Space Marines and occasionally Eldar and Tyranids. Any advice against CSM, particularly in regards to their new supplement, would be useful though. This topic's given me a lot of food for thought so thanks everyone.

I checked out your list and it looks pretty interesting and actually fairly close to what I'm going for as well, how have you found the Hoplites and Peltasts perform? They look great and once the rules are no longer experimental (and hopefully in a new IA alongside some more new units) I'll probably pick some up.

Skitarii/Secutarii are great, but have 2 main problems. One they're permanently foot slogging across the map and depending on how you set up it's a curse. The other is the Doctrines which I see as a blessing and a curse. The Doctrines are great, but depending on how you play you only have 3 turns of them being effective. Personally with pure Skitarii all the units are good at what they do, minus the Balistari. The balistari is just not worth it's points for an Autocannon/lascannon platform, mostly because of the height of the model.

If you're starting low I suggest at 2 Dragoons, 3 Dunecrawlers, and however much Vanguard as you please.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I checked out your list and it looks pretty interesting and actually fairly close to what I'm going for as well, how have you found the Hoplites and Peltasts perform? They look great and once the rules are no longer experimental (and hopefully in a new IA alongside some more new units) I'll probably pick some up.

Well Hoplites are decent tarpit units since they're a 20man squad at 270pts and will vaporize anything with an AV value. Peltasts are great against T4 and below and will wipe hoards with almost no effort, seriously the small blasts against hoards is insane.

xlDuke wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You'll definitely have a hard time with the objective game vs Necrons as that will swing many ways, and while Gladius has OS on everything you can easily kill them while they don't have much to kill you.

When I get home I can do a better analysis of each match up if you need it

I appreciate that but it would mostly be wasted on me, I generally only play against CSM, Demons, Space Marines and occasionally Eldar and Tyranids. Any advice against CSM, particularly in regards to their new supplement, would be useful though. This topic's given me a lot of food for thought so thanks everyone.

I checked out your list and it looks pretty interesting and actually fairly close to what I'm going for as well, how have you found the Hoplites and Peltasts perform? They look great and once the rules are no longer experimental (and hopefully in a new IA alongside some more new units) I'll probably pick some up.

We still beat the snot out of CSM. However I am paranoid about the Heldrake formation which is why I'm hell bent on equipping my Onagers with the Icarus Array. Otherwise I'm not terribly afraid of Raptors as they don't have much in the way of Deep strike accuracy and Terminators will only run a little bit away before being shot to pieces. They play a better objective game than they used to, though.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I personally dislike the Transauranic Arquebus, simply because of how much a bugger I find the Sniper rule to be; I find these guns to be nowhere near as effective as they should for their cost. I used them a few times to try and crack open Rhinos before they even moved, but persistently failed to do so.

I don't find them reliable enough to be worth their points cost either.
I think making them "Heavy 2" instead of "Heavy 1" might make them worth 25 points.

I have more luck shooting them at potentially dangerous non-vehicle units like librarians (not in terminator armor) and devastator squads which gives the ranger unit that stays in my deployment zone for objectives something to do if nothing comes in range of their galvanic rifles.
Their ability to theoretically take a wound or hull-point off of anything in the game sometimes scares opponents and they become a decent distraction for the rest of my army against those opponents.
I put them behind the ammo crates in the "Munitorum Armoured Containers" fortification to give the a cover save and let them re-roll 1s to hit in the shooting phase.
It makes them a little more reliable and makes them last longer against opponents who fear them for whatever reason.

I recently tried putting Neutron Laser Dunecrawlers on top of tall terrain features to see how well they work as sniping units.
They worked very well, far better than Transuranic Arquebues, while simultaneously being a 48" searchlight for Night Fighting.
I also found that because they are a walker that is not slowed by difficult terrain and automatically passes dangerous terrain tests they are stupidly good at climbing up buildings and over terrain features to get line of site to units that are hiding behind them.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:

but the phosphor serpentas on the Dragoons look pretty good

It absolutely is. Always give the Dragoons serpentas; even the Sniping ones.

I have not found them to be worth the full ten points myself.
I only take them if I have points left over and can't find anything else to spend them on.
What do you like about them?

The thing I like about the Arqebus is that it meshes well with the Ranger weapon. You get precision shots and the extra range which meshes well.
Plus that model...

Shame they don't have a better rate of fire.

-snip-

 arclance wrote:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:

but the phosphor serpentas on the Dragoons look pretty good

It absolutely is. Always give the Dragoons serpentas; even the Sniping ones.

I have not found them to be worth the full ten points myself.
I only take them if I have points left over and can't find anything else to spend them on.
What do you like about them?

Rerolling charge distances and -1 to cover on lit up stuff, charge distance being the big thing. That, and the mobility of the robo chickens allows you to light up stuff that isn't behind cover for them, but is for your other units; just makes them that bit more efficient.
One of the scariest things I've seen is phosphor-armed Cavaliers working in tandem with the Killcade - That's some serious impending doom right there.

Also comparing the Serpenta to the Galvo: +1 strength, very helpful ability if it goes off, almost as much as a Ranger but taken on a highly mobile platform, which is also kinda tough.
It's nice to have that little bit extra on the Ironstriders. It's not like they can run anyway.

You can also Overwatch with them since Dragoons are Walkers.

I don't think I have ever gotten an unsaved wound with them.
Since they put out one attack per Model and you have to hit, wound, and have the target fail its save for them to do anything I don't find them reliable enough to always take them at 10 points per model.