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Wondering what you guys think is best in several unit to unit comparisons. Please only vote for one of the two options for each faction, but feel free to vote for each comparison.

There are only two units on that list that even matter. Wulfen and TWC. The rest might as well not be in the game. A correctly built TWC squad can kill an entire BA army by itself.

ForgottenSon wrote:
Wondering what you guys think is best in several unit to unit comparisons. Please only vote for one of the two options for each faction, but feel free to vote for each comparison.

Are we talking uber-competative star-based gaming or casual, pick-up gaming? Because, for what I know, BA do not have any particularly potent stars, but the new supplement gave them some fun and scary formations. SW, on the other hand, have a number of functioning star lists, but I have not seen them do particularly well in pick-up games.

But, to clarify, I play CWE in just casual pick-up games (hate tourneys). My SO plays BA in casual pick-up games and generally wipes table though. SO is going to start taking a different army structure now with the supplement though, so I am not sure exactly how different their level in the meta is going to be.

Space Wolves do fine in pick-up games.
You can make anything from a tournament heavyweight list to something that will struggle to knock over a beginner's Nid list.
Where Space Wolves struggle is in restriction matches.

I got curb stomped in the first few rounds of a 'Build up' tournament. First three rounds didn't allow Heavy Support, Relics or Fast Attack.
No Long Fangs, no Flyers and no Helm of Durfast and all three of my first three opponents are all packing Flying Monstrous Creatures.

Wolf Terminators can take combi weapons makes them far more useful as a deep strike unit than their vanilla/BA terminator counterparts. It seems BA terminators are horribly overpriced when compared to Codex: Space Marines. Wolf Terminators are very expensive when you go with double claw or TH/SS but the Wolves can take 3 man squads and have power weapons stock instead of PFs. MSU style deep strike Wolf Terminators armed with their stock Power Weapons + Combi Plasma/Melta is not a bad way to play them imo. If you want the classic assault terminators then look to the BAs. Only way I can suggest TH/SS for the wolves is if you take the formation that takes Arjac in a Crusader and they gives them T5 and auto melee hit back on 6s with invuln saves.

Wulfen and TWC are fairly notorious for their "Freight Train without Brakes" status while I don't think the same can be said for Sang Guard or Death Company.

I want to be proven wrong but I believe Skyclaws to be the best "assault marines" in the game. Price of a tac marine, 4 attacks on the charge, counter attack so they aren't garbage when charged, hidden power fist, wulfen aura can make them fast moving murder machines, and their only weakness is that they are BS/WS3. Not sure what BA assault marines bring to the table other than the normal BA charge bonus.

The lower BS hurts the Swiftclaws more here as bikes actually have some shooting firepower while they also only have 1 CCW or Pistol so they only get 3 attacks on the charge instead of 4. Swiftclaws are limited to being able to take a single Plasma or Melta gun while BA bikers seem to be able to take 2 (grav being an option for them). As a CC or Shooting Bike unit Wolf Guard on Bikes start to look more appealing than Swiftclaws despite the higher base points cost.

BA Librarians can take Telepathy while the Wolves cannot so that basically decides it. I don't really know enough about the BA special psychic school but the Tempestas Discipline isn't anything special. What the Rune Priest does have is a slightly cheaper base cost (but no hood stock) and their force weapon gives Adamantium Will (TIL). Rune Priest can also take Runic Armor if you want 2+ armor but don't want to be a bulky terminator.

Furioso Dreads are more killy in both CC and shooting while SW Dreads can be more Tanky. Axe +Shield for the wolves is rather good at tanking in CC but completely lacks shooting capability. Personally I like the Axe + Shield more because AV12 with 3+ invuln in the front arc is amazing while I let things like TWC, Skyclaws, or Wulfen be my murder machines. Furioso Dreads using a Fist w/ Heavy Flamer + Frag Cannon in a pod makes for a nasty "in your face" blob shredder.

BA librarians do not get telepathy. If they did, BA wouldn't be an autolose to Tau.

 Vankraken wrote:
Wolf Terminators can take combi weapons makes them far more useful as a deep strike unit than their vanilla/BA terminator counterparts. It seems BA terminators are horribly overpriced when compared to Codex: Space Marines. Wolf Terminators are very expensive when you go with double claw or TH/SS but the Wolves can take 3 man squads and have power weapons stock instead of PFs. MSU style deep strike Wolf Terminators armed with their stock Power Weapons + Combi Plasma/Melta is not a bad way to play them imo. If you want the classic assault terminators then look to the BAs. Only way I can suggest TH/SS for the wolves is if you take the formation that takes Arjac in a Crusader and they gives them T5 and auto melee hit back on 6s with invuln saves.

Wulfen and TWC are fairly notorious for their "Freight Train without Brakes" status while I don't think the same can be said for Sang Guard or Death Company.

I want to be proven wrong but I believe Skyclaws to be the best "assault marines" in the game. Price of a tac marine, 4 attacks on the charge, counter attack so they aren't garbage when charged, hidden power fist, wulfen aura can make them fast moving murder machines, and their only weakness is that they are BS/WS3. Not sure what BA assault marines bring to the table other than the normal BA charge bonus.

The lower BS hurts the Swiftclaws more here as bikes actually have some shooting firepower while they also only have 1 CCW or Pistol so they only get 3 attacks on the charge instead of 4. Swiftclaws are limited to being able to take a single Plasma or Melta gun while BA bikers seem to be able to take 2 (grav being an option for them). As a CC or Shooting Bike unit Wolf Guard on Bikes start to look more appealing than Swiftclaws despite the higher base points cost.

BA Librarians can take Telepathy while the Wolves cannot so that basically decides it. I don't really know enough about the BA special psychic school but the Tempestas Discipline isn't anything special. What the Rune Priest does have is a slightly cheaper base cost (but no hood stock) and their force weapon gives Adamantium Will (TIL). Rune Priest can also take Runic Armor if you want 2+ armor but don't want to be a bulky terminator.

Furioso Dreads are more killy in both CC and shooting while SW Dreads can be more Tanky. Axe +Shield for the wolves is rather good at tanking in CC but completely lacks shooting capability. Personally I like the Axe + Shield more because AV12 with 3+ invuln in the front arc is amazing while I let things like TWC, Skyclaws, or Wulfen be my murder machines. Furioso Dreads using a Fist w/ Heavy Flamer + Frag Cannon in a pod makes for a nasty "in your face" blob shredder.

This.

The OP is comparing the best CC army in the game to the worst. BA have some decent psykers, but can't take telepathy.

Why is this even a thread? Outside of Frag Dreads and Skyclaws, everything is inferior.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why is this even a thread? Outside of Frag Dreads and Skyclaws, everything is inferior.

Someone wants to rub it in. BA are just as useless after their update as before.

Also, SW can build the horredous Bark Star, with a bit of superfriend shenanigans iirc.

Wasn't my intention to rub anything, just a new player who has been told that BA and SWs are good at CC, so I made a list of my favorite comparable units on each side and asked for a comparison. Believe it or not, not everything is about being a jerk. I've played four or five pick up games with a 1000pt tau army I got as a gift from a friend. Wanted to know what the better way to go would be, for each of the units. Was even thinking about allying the two armies.

BA are actually bad at CC. They haven't been this bad at it since 2nd ed. (The mid 90s)

Then how do you run BA?

Smart people repaint their BA. The truly loyal (and admirable) run MSU scoring units while spamming AV13. I can think of 3 decent formations (none of them approaching good) that can be fun to play, but even then if they perform they do okay (for waaay too many points). If they don't perform you just wasted 750+ points and you understand why BA players are so bitter.

The Wulfen take it all.

Dantes_Baals wrote:

The OP is comparing the best CC army in the game to the worst. BA have some decent psykers, but can't take telepathy.

BA libbys can't take telepathy? Why is the psychic powers quick reference chart so woefully inaccurate

Yup no invis = no chance in hell vs Tau.

 Vankraken wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

The OP is comparing the best CC army in the game to the worst. BA have some decent psykers, but can't take telepathy.

BA libbys can't take telepathy? Why is the psychic powers quick reference chart so woefully inaccurate

The card came out at the start of 7th, at which time the BA could take Telepathy powers because they still had their 5th ed book. Once the 7th ed BA book came out, it placed the restriction on them.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

The OP is comparing the best CC army in the game to the worst. BA have some decent psykers, but can't take telepathy.

BA libbys can't take telepathy? Why is the psychic powers quick reference chart so woefully inaccurate

The card came out at the start of 7th, at which time the BA could take Telepathy powers because they still had their 5th ed book. Once the 7th ed BA book came out, it placed the restriction on them.

Fascinating, its a real shame GW decided to take that away from them as it just seems like a real kick in the teeth for them for no real reason. Also I wonder why it list Inquisition as having access to Biomancy and Malefic Daemonology.