Brush-on Primer

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**TheWarpSaysHello**

Alright, I've had enough of GW's Imperial Primer. I love the stuff, but only like every third bottle I get stays together for the weeks after I open it. Most of the time, it works for the day I open it, and then the next week, it's completely separated and not able to be salvaged (I suppose it could, but it's really not worth the effort). They won't have any paint blocking the seal or any of the normal drying out issues. I have Vallejo's White Brush-on Primer, and it's okay, but I prefer black (not a requirement, though), and would like some input on the different brush-on primers I can get my hands on that work just as well. Thanks

**DalinCriid**

I have Vallejo black Brush-on Primer and the coat of primer rubs off from the primer like it was primed with chocolate but not with primer. I don't know why this happens but it is the same with their spray cans.

I've been looking for months on resolution on this and there is absolutely nothing on the Internet. So I suggest you avoid Vallejo primers until someone suggest you a better brush-on primer.

**TheWarpSaysHello**

Ah well thank you for the heads up. Black Vallejo was going to be my next go-to experiment if I didn't hear anything back for awhile.

**DalinCriid**

TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
Ah well thank you for the heads up. Black Vallejo was going to be my next go-to experiment if I didn't hear anything back for awhile.

I don't have an Airbrush yet, but soon Im gonna buy one and test Vallejo Brush on with an airbrush. I hear that people use it that way and are really happy. If the primer still pills off I'm going to throw this crap into the bin and never look to any Vallejo products anymore. But I am still open up for more Brush On primer suggestions. Unfortunately I dont know any other than Imperial Primer and Vallejo.

**TheWarpSaysHello**

DalinCriid wrote:
TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
Ah well thank you for the heads up. Black Vallejo was going to be my next go-to experiment if I didn't hear anything back for awhile.

I don't have an Airbrush yet, but soon Im gonna buy one and test Vallejo Brush on with an airbrush. I hear that people use it that way and are really happy. If the primer still pills off I'm going to throw this crap into the bin and never look to any Vallejo products anymore. But I am still open up for more Brush On primer suggestions. Unfortunately I dont know any other than Imperial Primer and Vallejo.

Same. I've got a few craft stores around and a couple gaming/hobby stores, but all they really carry are Citadel and Vallejo. I've got one that carries P3, but for the life of me, I don't know if they have their own brush-on.

**DalinCriid**

TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
DalinCriid wrote:
TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
Ah well thank you for the heads up. Black Vallejo was going to be my next go-to experiment if I didn't hear anything back for awhile.

I don't have an Airbrush yet, but soon Im gonna buy one and test Vallejo Brush on with an airbrush. I hear that people use it that way and are really happy. If the primer still pills off I'm going to throw this crap into the bin and never look to any Vallejo products anymore. But I am still open up for more Brush On primer suggestions. Unfortunately I dont know any other than Imperial Primer and Vallejo.

Same. I've got a few craft stores around and a couple gaming/hobby stores, but all they really carry are Citadel and Vallejo. I've got one that carries P3, but for the life of me, I don't know if they have their own brush-on.

Because I am obsessed with this bad Vallejo adhesiveness your thread provoked to google more and more and I think I've just find the primer for you.
Floquil Primer it is supposed to be brushed on, but it is an enamel. Since I don't know nothing about enamels (I have only one enamel Wash) I have no idea how acrylic paint will stick to the model after you primed it with Enamel. One thing I know about Enamel is that it dries slower than acrylic. I hope that the experienced users here can help you with guides how to thin it and use with, because I am interested too.

**LadyCassandra**

DalinCriid wrote:
I have Vallejo black Brush-on Primer and the coat of primer rubs off from the primer like it was primed with chocolate but not with primer. I don't know why this happens but it is the same with their spray cans.

I've been looking for months on resolution on this and there is absolutely nothing on the Internet. So I suggest you avoid Vallejo primers until someone suggest you a better brush-on primer.

Are you talking about the Polyurethane Primers from Vallejo (Surface Primers)? I got the black a couple of years ago and absolutely loved it, it shrink wraps and while it takes a while to fully cure (something like 32 hours), it won't even come off with the fingernail test once it has.

If it is, I'm wondering if they've changed the formulation or I just got lucky...

EDIT: Did a bit of digging. From the reviews on Amazon I'd say that it works fine for plastics and you need to leave it alone to cure before layering more paint over the top to get good results.

https://www.amazon.com/Vallejo-Black-Primer-Acrylic-Polyurethane/dp/B004BN5RUU

Hope that helps a bit.

**fresus**

LadyCassandra wrote:
DalinCriid wrote:
I have Vallejo black Brush-on Primer and the coat of primer rubs off from the primer like it was primed with chocolate but not with primer. I don't know why this happens but it is the same with their spray cans.

I've been looking for months on resolution on this and there is absolutely nothing on the Internet. So I suggest you avoid Vallejo primers until someone suggest you a better brush-on primer.

Are you talking about the Polyurethane Primers from Vallejo (Surface Primers)? I got the black a couple of years ago and absolutely loved it, it shrink wraps and while it takes a while to fully cure (something like 32 hours), it won't even come off with the fingernail test once it has.

If it is, I'm wondering if they've changed the formulation or I just got lucky...

Same experience.
The vallejo primers take a lot of time to cure. They're very very week after just a few hours, but very strong after a couple days.
Also, vallejo's website advice not to thin them. I find thinning a bit increases drying time a lot.

**LadyCassandra**

Yeah, I always use it straight from the pot. It's fairly thin as it goes on, and when it dries it performs the most amazing trick, all that blobby paint just shrinks into every crevice. Really clever idea for a primer when you think about it, but yes, if you're painting metal miniatures it would probably be better to go for something else, apparently it doesn't key well on it at all.

**DalinCriid**

Unfortunately nothing of this works. I have SMs primed with this that I let cure for months... still chipping off. The same goes for their rattle can. I am totally clueless why it can't adhere to the figure...

Once I have an airbrush I will try once more, but I am not an optimist. I've made a research on this and I've found some you tube of videos and handful of threads by people that complain from it.

**fresus**

DalinCriid wrote:
Unfortunately nothing of this works. I have SMs primed with this that I let cure for months... still chipping off. The same goes for their rattle can. I am totally clueless why it can't adhere to the figure...

Once I have an airbrush I will try once more, but I am not an optimist. I've made a research on this and I've found some you tube of videos and handful of threads by people that complain from it.

Weird.
I'm always amazed that people get vastly different results like that. Maybe the stuff separates in the bottle and shaking doesn't fix it?
I've heard of people who liked a given color of primer but not another, citing very different results. Maybe they got a good bottle of one color, and a bad one from another?

Did anyone go through many bottles of vallejo's poly primer? If so, were the results consistent?

**DalinCriid**

fresus wrote:
DalinCriid wrote:
Unfortunately nothing of this works. I have SMs primed with this that I let cure for months... still chipping off. The same goes for their rattle can. I am totally clueless why it can't adhere to the figure...

Once I have an airbrush I will try once more, but I am not an optimist. I've made a research on this and I've found some you tube of videos and handful of threads by people that complain from it.

Weird.
I'm always amazed that people get vastly different results like that. Maybe the stuff separates in the bottle and shaking doesn't fix it?
I've heard of people who liked a given color of primer but not another, citing very different results. Maybe they got a good bottle of one color, and a bad one from another?

Did anyone go through many bottles of vallejo's poly primer? If so, were the results consistent?

It could be my mistake by thinning with water (I can't really remember if I used water). However I've just decide to give it another try and primed: Metallic Chief Librarian Tigarius, a plastic Ultron and sauraus knight. I primed them without thinning, directly from the bottle. I will leave the models for 3 days and if it still rubs I really have no idea what I am doing wrong,.

**Bi'ios**

Why don't you try gesso? A layer can be easily brushed on, and it's quite durable. It shrinks down and fits your mini nicely. I'd advise maybe switching to a rattle can primer, this is probably the best and easiest way to prime your models.

**AesSedai**

I use vallejo airbrush primer by brush. I thin with Future. Never had any problem with chipping, its good stuff.

**bbarrington2001**

This is what you want:

http://www.liquitex.com/us/Shop/Medium/Surface_Prep/Black_Gesso_Surface_Prep_Medium,_8-oz.aspx

Only try the black. The white is not nearly as good. You can paint this stuff on pretty thick and it'll condense down to super smooth. Stuff is amazing. Michael's has it so you don't have to order online.

**Talys**

bbarrington2001 wrote:
This is what you want:

http://www.liquitex.com/us/Shop/Medium/Surface_Prep/Black_Gesso_Surface_Prep_Medium,_8-oz.aspx

Only try the black. The white is not nearly as good. You can paint this stuff on pretty thick and it'll condense down to super smooth. Stuff is amazing. Michael's has it so you don't have to order online.

Yes!! This is an awesome product

**LadyCassandra**

Bi'ios wrote:
Why don't you try gesso? A layer can be easily brushed on, and it's quite durable. It shrinks down and fits your mini nicely. I'd advise maybe switching to a rattle can primer, this is probably the best and easiest way to prime your models.

If you do go this route, just be advised to do it somewhere with plenty of ventilation, preferably outdoors, be aware of wind, use an overspray catcher such as a cardboard box on its side to spray into. Also, you can't spray when it's too hot, too cold or too humid, unless you want the dreaded "furry model" syndrome. I used to live on the coast, where rattle cans are a lost cause for this sort of work due to the near-constant 100% humidity.

On the other hand, if you have the conditions necessary, it's quick and easy.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I avoid hairy brushing my primer at all costs. I just haven't met a brush on variety that I like.

Rattle can is my preferred method, if not airbrush on this...

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Finishing-Surfacer-1500-Bottle/dp/B00BG4T2BM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1474442298&sr=8-2&keywords=mr+surfacer+1500

Thinned with this...

https://www.amazon.com/Bluefin-Distribution-Toys-T108-Leveling/dp/B00124MG50/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474442327&sr=8-1&keywords=mr+color+leveling+thinner

If I'm hairy brush priming, I'll use the same combination. I apply it quite thin, decanting a little bit of the thinner in to a separate bottle to make life easier. It dries pretty tough within a few minutes, no waiting for days for it to cure like Vallejo's PU primer. You can buy the thinner in smaller amounts but since I airbrush with it and use it for the initial clean out as well as a thinner, I go through lots of it so just buy the bigger bottles.

But yeah, I avoid hairy brush priming, I've tried Vallejo's offering and I don't like it.

EDIT: Oh, and that stuff is a lacquer, so you have to use it in a well ventilated area. On the up side, the fumes are short lived, but while painting you should avoid inhaling the fumes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DalinCriid wrote:
Floquil Primer it is supposed to be brushed on, but it is an enamel. Since I don't know nothing about enamels (I have only one enamel Wash) I have no idea how acrylic paint will stick to the model after you primed it with Enamel. One thing I know about Enamel is that it dries slower than acrylic. I hope that the experienced users here can help you with guides how to thin it and use with, because I am interested too.

I've played around with Humbrol's enamel primer.

It works great.... except acrylic paint doesn't like to stick to it. When you're applying the acrylic, it will tend to bead up if you thin it too much because the surface energy of the enamel primer is much lower. Likewise, if you do a "scratch test" you'll find the acrylic scratches off the enamel without too much effort, but the enamel itself will be hard to remove from the plastic.

You also have to wait ages for it to cure before you can layer acrylics on top (if you're just painting enamels over the enamel primer you don't have to wait long).

**Hanskrampf**

After having lived in an apartment with only skylights and a long way downstairs, I tried the both alternatives to spray primer the internet most commonly gives.

Gesso and Vallejo Brush-on primer. I found both pretty gakky, but others seem to have vastly different results.

Gesso blobs details sometimes and chips easily.

Vallejo chips even more easily.

After having moved house, I'm glad I can spray prime again. Much less time consuming and Armypainter spray primer is sturdy, easily usable the can I opened two years ago still works after digging it out.
If I would have to prime indoors again, I would buy a cheap airbrush and prime with this. Never going back to brush priming.

**DalinCriid**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I avoid hairy brushing my primer at all costs. I just haven't met a brush on variety that I like.

Rattle can is my preferred method, if not airbrush on this...

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Finishing-Surfacer-1500-Bottle/dp/B00BG4T2BM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1474442298&sr=8-2&keywords=mr+surfacer+1500

Thinned with this...

https://www.amazon.com/Bluefin-Distribution-Toys-T108-Leveling/dp/B00124MG50/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474442327&sr=8-1&keywords=mr+color+leveling+thinner

If I'm hairy brush priming, I'll use the same combination. I apply it quite thin, decanting a little bit of the thinner in to a separate bottle to make life easier. It dries pretty tough within a few minutes, no waiting for days for it to cure like Vallejo's PU primer. You can buy the thinner in smaller amounts but since I airbrush with it and use it for the initial clean out as well as a thinner, I go through lots of it so just buy the bigger bottles.

But yeah, I avoid hairy brush priming, I've tried Vallejo's offering and I don't like it.

EDIT: Oh, and that stuff is a lacquer, so you have to use it in a well ventilated area. On the up side, the fumes are short lived, but while painting you should avoid inhaling the fumes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DalinCriid wrote:
Floquil Primer it is supposed to be brushed on, but it is an enamel. Since I don't know nothing about enamels (I have only one enamel Wash) I have no idea how acrylic paint will stick to the model after you primed it with Enamel. One thing I know about Enamel is that it dries slower than acrylic. I hope that the experienced users here can help you with guides how to thin it and use with, because I am interested too.
I've played around with Humbrol's enamel primer.

It works great.... except acrylic paint doesn't like to stick to it. When you're applying the acrylic, it will tend to bead up if you thin it too much because the surface energy of the enamel primer is much lower. Likewise, if you do a "scratch test" you'll find the acrylic scratches off the enamel without too much effort, but the enamel itself will be hard to remove from the plastic.

You also have to wait ages for it to cure before you can layer acrylics on top (if you're just painting enamels over the enamel primer you don't have to wait long).

I'm getting an airbrush really soon, because winter is coming and rattle cans are not an option anymore. This Mr. Surfacer, is it good for minuatures like space marines or it's good for tanks only. I really wanna know, because I am priming different kind of models. Sorry if the question is kind of dumb, but last time I used Tamiya it was superb for my rhinos but nooot so good for my marines.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I haven't had any problems with Mr Surfacer on miniatures. It comes in black, white or grey and you can buy different roughnesses, like sand paper the the higher the number the smoother the finish, I just use the 1500 when I'm airbrushing but you can also get 1200, 1000 and 500. 500 works more like a gap filler (think liquid green stuff, but better).

The problem I had with Tamiya rattle can primer is similar to the enamel primer, it sticks really well to the plastic but regular water based acrylic paint won't stick well to it (but alcohol based acrylics and lacquers are fine). I sometimes use Tamiya rattle can primer but then hit it with a Tamiya matte coloured spray paint before attacking it with my hairy brush, as that forms a pretty tough base coat. I think where Tamiya rattle can primer would be awesome is probably spraying model cars because it comes out super smooth and self levels like a dream.

But Mr Surfacer doesn't have the same problem, it sticks to the plastic like glue and pretty much any paint sticks well to it. Just thin it with the Gunze self levelling thinner, when I tried thinning it with regular lacquer thinner I found it clogged my airbrush more easily and the surface finish was too rough.

**Bocete**

I've had it with Imperial Primer. I bought a pot a month ago, opened it and used once to touuch up spray primed minis, and it's unusable already. I love Vallejo white brush on primer, so I ordered some in black. Hope it turns out ok.

**DalinCriid**

This is the most frustrating and strange Primer I ever worked it. Unfortunately after 24 hours of waiting and proper applying (not thinning with water) the Vallejo polyurethane brush on primer is still rubbing off with ease, but not on all models.

Here is the feedback of my 3 models I tested:
The saurasaus knight - rubbing of with such ease when use my nail. It's like it was never primed at all. I don't know why this happens, but for some reason I cannot make this Vallejo to work on citadel miniatures...

Plastic Ultron - sticks like second skin. I cannot rubb of no matter how i try to pill of with my nail. I don't know if it is the plastic the figgure it is made from - there is a bit of rubber into this model, but the primer sticks insanely good. I don't know if the problem is not in the GW plastic, but then again I can spray with ease any other type of primer on citadel miniatures.

Metalic Librarian - another GW model... well it sticks a bit better the metal than to the plastic, but again I am still able to chip this thing off.

Conclusion... I am out of any clues to draw any conclusion. I really wanted to love Vallejo primer. The reviews by youtubers and people in forums were superb, but here I am experimenting months after months and still nothing.
I will wait a couple of days and see if there is a miracle, but I am not an optimist.

**AllSeeingSkink**

I never really loved Vallejo primer, I used it for a while because with an airbrush it was much cheaper than rattle cans. I don't really abuse my models so I never noticed how pathetically weak it was.

But I stopped using it when I primed a model, waited a couple of days for it to cure, applied a base coat, waited a couple of days for it to cure, then masked it and applied a 2nd colour. Pulling off the mask huge chunks of paint came off with it, tore off right down to the plastic. It was a model I had spent around 100 hours on. After playing around for a while I discovered no matter how I applied it and how long I waited it was always weaker than rattle can primer by a long measure.

So after that I bit the bullet and swapped to Gunze Mr Surfacer 1500. It's very tough, I'm looking at a model I primed yesterday and I can barely scratch the primer off with my finger nail (basically have to dig in so hard that I'm damaging the underlying plastic). It cures quick, I can prime Mr Surfacer and after a few minutes it's ready for a basecoat. It also sprays silky smooth and can be sanded within minutes if you need.

As I said I usually spray it, but if I need a brush on primer it's also what I use for that.

**Ricimdi**

Without question BLACK GESSO.

Applied with a brush and goes on like flat black primer and covers extraordinarily well. Thin it with water if you so please. Super Cheap too. I use it when painting black onto white primed models. Get it at your local arts and crafts store. Look it up online for more specific info. It also comes in white and grey but I've never used them so I cant tell you how effective they are.

**Tjomball**

Not my work. It's Leper's work from the Infinity forums..

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/24118-better-living-through-meta-chemistry-a-hobby-guide/

And let the Primer cure for at least 24 hours. Maybe as much as 48 hours if you have the oppurtunity to do so..

**Slipstream**

It's been interesting reading all the comments about brush on primers,in a way it's good to see other people are experiencing the same problems with it and it's not just me!

Anyway,I'm in the position of not being able to use sprays;mainly because of the neighbours, so I have no option but to use the brush on stuff. For a while I've been using vallejo's black,but to be honest I'm fed up of the stuff rubbing off.

I was recently painting Blood Angels and it seemed like every time I picked up a model the paint and the primer rubbed off,and this was not down to heavy handling. Most of the time I spent on them was going back again and again doing repairs.

I think a big part of the problem is that the brush on primer is too smooth;there doesn't seem to be anything for the actual paint to grip on to,and this also means the primer not being able to grip the model's surface.

I'm currently doing Salamanders and decided to do something a bit radical;I used Humbrol Grey Primer enamel! So far I have done two coats of green and lo and behold no paint rubbing off! I do thin it down but the advantage of using this stuff is that it is not a smooth(like acrylic primer)finish;there is something for the paint to grip on to.

The disadvantage of using enamel is that it stuffs up any chance of stripping the figures down if you feel the need,but I think I can live with that!

**ced1106**

The primer that shall not be named, and the primer that can't be pronounced.

Spoiler:

**AllSeeingSkink**

ced1106 wrote:
The primer that shall not be named, and the primer that can't be pronounced.

Spoiler:

For someone claiming to be an engineer there wasn't much info in that review

EDIT: Regarding the 2nd video, my first bottle of Vallejo primer I had issues with lack of strength, not sanding well and frankly it didn't airbrush all that smoothly either (it had a tendency to build up in the nozzle and splutter a bit). The suggestion was made that I had a bad bottle, but after reading so many other negative reviews I didn't really feel like throwing money away chasing a primer that a lot of people seemed to be having issues with.

**ced1106**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
For someone claiming to be an engineer there wasn't much info in that review .

Then do a search and find another review. Not too hard, I imagine.

Myself, I've used the S stuff, and it flows *very* nicely. However, all I've had to contrast it with is Reaper brush-on primer, which also flowed well, and is less expensive if all you need is a 1/2 ounce bottle.