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My friend and I were talking about 30k, I mentioned how if I ever splurged and bought into the game like I'd love to, I'd probably go loyalist Death Guard. He mentioned he would play traitor Dark Angels. I figured all the loyalist armies stayed truly loyal? Or were there traitors even from the good guys? If so, how many from each of the 9?

There was traitors and loyalists on all sides.

Even mixed crusade fleets and battle groups.

Sigmound picked up chained weapons off world eaters he later brought to templers and once dueled sevantor.

Marines got about. Duel was pre heresy, two utterly elite warriors.

Dark Angels are the first to come to mind, but the White Scars also had a traitor faction within their legion. I can't think of any instances beyond those two though, to be honest.

 luky7dayz wrote:
... He mentioned he would play traitor Dark Angels...

So... normal Dark Angels then?

The background has long stated there were traitors from every legion but I'd consider that retconned if we don't see traitor Ultramarines or Imperial Fists in the HH series. If that's still canon it would be too big of a story to ignore... I'd love to read about Ultramarines turning- I just can't imagine it

We've seen loyalist Luna Wolves, World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children in the first few HH books. Loyalist Iron Warriors later on. Alpha Legion are ambiguous on a much higher level. Loyalist Thousand Sons have appeared. I'm not sure about Word Bearers and Night Lords... anyone?

yep to a single word bearer, don't know about others, but a legion of that size, its quite likely others remained loyal, as to night lords, don't know, ultramarines likely have the same issue as WB, massive legion, bound to be some that allied with horus

Legions are too big not to have traitor loyalists.

Most are 100,000 +

 Orblivion wrote:
Dark Angels are the first to come to mind, but the White Scars also had a traitor faction within their legion. I can't think of any instances beyond those two though, to be honest.

From the audiobooks I've listened to, there was a traitor raven guard too, though just 1, after being tortured and turned by the 8th legion; also there are traitor ironhands as well.


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 Snake Tortoise wrote:
The background has long stated there were traitors from every legion but I'd consider that retconned if we don't see traitor Ultramarines or Imperial Fists in the HH series. If that's still canon it would be too big of a story to ignore... I'd love to read about Ultramarines turning- I just can't imagine it

We've seen loyalist Luna Wolves, World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children in the first few HH books. Loyalist Iron Warriors later on. Alpha Legion are ambiguous on a much higher level. Loyalist Thousand Sons have appeared. I'm not sure about Word Bearers and Night Lords... anyone?

Yes, there is a word bearer that is loyal, as well as a nightlord libby who later wore the grey.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
The background has long stated there were traitors from every legion but I'd consider that retconned if we don't see traitor Ultramarines or Imperial Fists in the HH series. If that's still canon it would be too big of a story to ignore... I'd love to read about Ultramarines turning- I just can't imagine it

We've seen loyalist Luna Wolves, World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children in the first few HH books. Loyalist Iron Warriors later on. Alpha Legion are ambiguous on a much higher level. Loyalist Thousand Sons have appeared. I'm not sure about Word Bearers and Night Lords... anyone?

And by long stated, you mean less than two years old. Horus Heresy: Conquest was the first direct statement that made it clear that their were loyalists, traitors, and everything in between in every single legion, no exception. And you don't need concrete examples of Ultramarine of Imperial Fist traitors to know they exist. Just like you don't need an example of an Iron Warriors jetbike squadron to know they existed. Sure, those marines may not wear the colors of their original legion, but that doesn't mean there aren't those that turned from their primarchs in favor of Horus.

Traitor Dark Angels he could play as those under Luthor (they'd later become the Fallen).

As for numbers, it's likely that there were fewer traitors from the Loyalist Legions than loyalists from the Traitor Legions. It would be harder to turn from both Emperor and Primarch than just one of them.

There were traitor sections of loyalist legions, and loyalist sections of traitor legions, as well as loyalists and traitors that used the war as an excuse to 'go rogue' as Blackshields. It's mentioned repeatedly in the HH main books - every legion had formations that fought for the 'other' side.

Don't assume that, because there is only one loyalist Word Bearer in the novels, that he was the only one, or because the novels haven't featured a traitor Imperial Fist, that means there weren't any. The novels only give a tiny part of the bigger picture, and the universe is a big place.

In the FW Horus Heresy Books (either in 4 or 5) there is a small paragraph talking about just this. How there were (supressed) reports of Iron Hands and Space Wolves seen fighitng with the Eye of Horus on their armor. We all know about the Dark Angels and their fallen. While I do think that the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists are the least likely, I'm sure that small contingants, that had fought alongside the Sons of Horus for extended preiods would have been able to be swayed. The only Legion I think would have been immune would have been the Salamanders, due to their relative smaller size and the promethein cult preventing it.

There were definitely loyalist traitors. I'm not too sure about Ultramarine or Imperial Fist traitors but I'm sure it could happen (Pride goeth before the fall, as they say). Dark Angels obviously had what would become The Fallen. Wolves I doubt had any official traitors, but given their demeanor I can certainly see a group basically going rogue and being literal space vikings going around using the Heresy to pillage and plunder (remember Marines are less indoctrinated during the Heresy era, they are much more human). Same with White Scars (I believe there are officially traitors in their ranks), Salamanders I can't quite see going rogue but in the aftermath of Istvaan V I can definitely see the "Shattered Legions" having traitors who switch sides during what they see is a losing battle, or just straight up resentment - imagine something like a line officer turning traitor because he was passed up for promotion and acting out of pure jealousy, then sticking with it after realizing what he's done. That sounds like a pretty cool narrative to me.

WayneTheGame wrote:
There were definitely loyalist traitors. I'm not too sure about Ultramarine or Imperial Fist traitors but I'm sure it could happen (Pride goeth before the fall, as they say). ....imagine something like a line officer turning traitor because he was passed up for promotion and acting out of pure jealousy, then sticking with it after realizing what he's done. That sounds like a pretty cool narrative to me.

The more I have thought about this, the more I can see smaller groups of Ultramarines going over. In the 40K timeframe, somthing like 2/3 of all chapters are of Ultra heritage, and they have chapters that go often enough that many if not all are decended from them. This leads me to belive that some would have been swayed to Horus's cause. Agruments like how the emperor chose Horus over Gullimen, but Horus values them more, etc...

Also, how many agreed with the traitors or "almost" agreed with the traitors but chose not to go full-bore and become mutineers, for lack of a better word. Sympathizers or people who were on the fence - absolutely.

You need only look at the Civil War in the United States or England or any other country (almost everyone has had one at some point) to see how insanely complex it would have been.

 luky7dayz wrote:
My friend and I were talking about 30k, I mentioned how if I ever splurged and bought into the game like I'd love to, I'd probably go loyalist Death Guard. He mentioned he would play traitor Dark Angels. I figured all the loyalist armies stayed truly loyal? Or were there traitors even from the good guys? If so, how many from each of the 9?

Read the forgeworld Horus heresy books. Loyalist legions had plenty traitors. In terms of numbers, no one knows. As many as the story demands, potentially. Loyalists only claim they had no traitors because they killed them all, when/if they could find them, and can probably get away with calling anyone else a liar, and a devious foe trying to blacken their name.

What I like about the way books is it illustrates how much of a gradient there was. You had true loyalists, true traitors, black shields n both sides who were former loyalists/traitors and defaced their armour to disavow their former legions. You had marines on all sides that started on one side or the other, but as the wars continued, would have changed sides beyond a certain point when they themselves reached a 'breaking point' in terms of disagreeing with the direction of their legion. You also had plenty marines of all colours that turned their backs on the warring sides altogether and just went off and did their own thing.

The fw books illustrate quite clearly how uncohesive the legions were. Corax, for example had a thing against the Terran born Raven guard that represented their original numbers, being as he felt, too close to Horus and the lodges (this in the days well before the heresy) and in many ways considering the cultures they were recruited from on terra, they represented the 'enemies' he himself fought fought against as a youth. He had most of them purged during the great crusade in a number of costly battles and of the remainder, had them effectively exiled in nomad predation fleets.

All the legions would have examples of things like this.