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 Drasius wrote:

GreenNinjaCactus wrote:
but is there no way to field 1 heldrake, though?

Only in a CAD (ie. 1-2 HQ, 2-6 troops, 1-3 each of Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support) or allied (1 HQ, 1-2 troops, 0-1 each of Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support) detachments.

You can field 2 on their own as either a fighter Wing or as a terror pack, each with different bonus rules.

While the Black Legion detachment is nice, restricting the 2 best units (Heldrakes and oblits) to formations is quite annoying (especially when the obliterator formation has such a useless tax). There is still value to be had in running a CAD, even if you aren't running a cult army.

Not to mention that you need a CAD if you want to field anything from forgeworld. I want to use some of our formations but I find myself coming back to a CAD or purge CAD every time.
We seem to suffer from a lot of compound points. Like the warpsmith. He is already a tax and then to make him work you need some kind of transport, the easiest being the dreadclaw, which adds another 100 points on top of the smith tax. Just so you can use his buff properly. As opposed to just getting him a bike for example.
Personally I would love to field the bringers of despair, but first you need abaddon. He's been a great success but he's still almost 300 points, and then you want them in melee so you need a land raider, but our land raider doesn't have frag launchers or the space needed for the full unit I would like to take. So I need a spartan. Suddenly a single unit of terminators costs close to 1000 points...
Want to get first turn assaults? Cool, you can do that now. But first your paying a bare minimum of 330 points (min cabal of lvl 3) for that privilege. I wouldn't mind using massed annihilation forces or raptors talons, but I don't feel comfortable doing it without the key, aka first turn assault and so on and so on.

 Roknar wrote:

 Drasius wrote:

GreenNinjaCactus wrote:
but is there no way to field 1 heldrake, though?

Only in a CAD (ie. 1-2 HQ, 2-6 troops, 1-3 each of Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy Support) or allied (1 HQ, 1-2 troops, 0-1 each of Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy Support) detachments.

You can field 2 on their own as either a fighter Wing or as a terror pack, each with different bonus rules.

While the Black Legion detachment is nice, restricting the 2 best units (Heldrakes and oblits) to formations is quite annoying (especially when the obliterator formation has such a useless tax). There is still value to be had in running a CAD, even if you aren't running a cult army.

Not to mention that you need a CAD if you want to field anything from forgeworld. I want to use some of our formations but I find myself coming back to a CAD or purge CAD every time.
We seem to suffer from a lot of compound points. Like the warpsmith. He is already a tax and then to make him work you need some kind of transport, the easiest being the dreadclaw, which adds another 100 points on top of the smith tax. Just so you can use his buff properly. As opposed to just getting him a bike for example.
Personally I would love to field the bringers of despair, but first you need abaddon. He's been a great success but he's still almost 300 points, and then you want them in melee so you need a land raider, but our land raider doesn't have frag launchers or the space needed for the full unit I would like to take. So I need a spartan. Suddenly a single unit of terminators costs close to 1000 points...
Want to get first turn assaults? Cool, you can do that now. But first your paying a bare minimum of 330 points (min cabal of lvl 3) for that privilege. I wouldn't mind using massed annihilation forces or raptors talons, but I don't feel comfortable doing it without the key, aka first turn assault and so on and so on.

Exactly! I just wish we could get some cool things without the mandatory tax...
Kharn and Abaddon look like fun but I don't really want to spend 50-60 bucks on a land raider because of what you just mentioned.
However, a Chaos Lord can get really really killy and tough as well. 5 nurgle bikers with a nurgle biker lord (Daemonheart would be fun here, if possible) and then buffs from the sorcerer. Fast, T5, quite a few attacks and, depending on what you give him (like artefacts), hitting hard.

Suicide squad of Raptors will be a fun distraction while my single rhino and cultists get close.
Termies will be deep striking because I don't need them foot slogging.

dude, just play your CSM as Loyalist SM because the decurion detachment we got are utter garbage. Warpsmith tax on any decent forge host or fist of god detachment. The supplememts dont solve the core problems CSM being too expensive in points with worthless rules and weapons.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
dude, just play your CSM as Loyalist SM because the decurion detachment we got are utter garbage. Warpsmith tax on any decent forge host or fist of god detachment. The supplememts dont solve the core problems CSM being too expensive in points with worthless rules and weapons.

The detachment is not completely useless.
Im not too sure, but can't you take a a primary detachment with the Black Legion core and whatever else you need and then have a secondary without the mandatory Black Legion stuff? If so, you can still benefit from it.
Eventhough I have yet to win/see a Chaos Space Marine player win a truly competitive match in person, I have seen plenty of us heretics win a match. It's all about fun for me. I don't want to have the cheasiest army, so I don't mind losing more often than winning: as long as me and my opponent have fun. It's usually a matter of luck and change of strategy for me, meaning that I can sometimes surprise an opponent and steal a win.