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Was thinking about the new Terminator annihilation force formation and the new chaos warband formation that makes everything in it obsec.

Now MSU ob sec terminators are a thing!

The chaos war band gives 3 terminator squads which are ob sec. And you can also have a terminator chaos lord and terminator sorceror which are seperately ob sec.

Attach this two out of the three squads in the terminator annihilation force.

Now, you will have six terminator squads deep striking in, out of which five of them are ob sec! And three of them come with terminator characters in it, so its not like they are all termicide squads either. Besides. One or two 3 man terminator squads might be termicide. But I think 6 squads and 3 terminator characters cease to be suicide anymore because thats a lot of terminator bodies to handle. And the whole thing is cheap enough such that you can have points enough to kit out the other half of your army. I managed to fit in a Renegade knight into the other half of my army.

This solves one problem which CSM traditionally have. We don't have drop pods. Now, with MSU ob sec terminators deep striking in, we can do without drop pods!

If we face a very mobile army, just land the ob sec terminators on or near the objectives and play the objectives game!


A sample list.


Chaos warband formation (everything here ob sec)

Chaos Terminator Lord with powerfist and combi melta. - 122 pts

Chaos terminator sorceror (level 1) with power fist and combi plama - 102 pts

Chaos terminators x 3, power fist x1, combi plasma x 3 - 122 pts

Chaos terminators x 3, power fist x1, combi plasma x 3 - 122 pts

Chaos terminators x 3, power fist x1, combi melta x 3 - 122 pts

Chaos bikers x3 - 70 pts

Havocs x 5, 4 lascannons - 155 pts

Chaos space marines x5, Rhino, 1 melta gun - 120 pts

Chaos space marines x5, Rhino, 1 melta gun - 120 pts

Terminator annihilation force

Chaos terminator lord with power fist and combi melta - 82 pts

chaos terminators x 3 with 3 combi melta - 112 pts
(attach ob sec lord)

chaos terminators x 3 with 3 combi melta - 112 pts
(attach ob sec sorceror)

chaos terminators x 3 with 3 combi plasma - 112 pts

Lord of War

Renegade knight with battle cannon and reaper chainsword - 375 pts

Total 1,848 pts


As you can see, there is enough points left over for a substantial force consisting of lascannon havocs, 2 melta rhinos, bikes and a renegade knight! I don't think its possibleto table me in my first turn, and second turn onwards, the ob sec terminators deep strike in.

We can use the reroll warlord traits to get the strategic warlord trait for units coming in from reserve, but with 6 squads deep striking in, some will definitely come in turn 2.

This army can play ob sec if its outmatched. But it can also dish out a lot of damage. All the terminators coming in will get to shoot with their combi plasmas and meltas no matter what happens. And selective champions and the 3 characters all come with power fists. So, armor that doen't get killed, can be power fisted to death after that.

So what do you think of this as a strategy?


PS: (Theoratically, if you ditch the renegade knight, you can kit out the terminator squads with more bodies, more sorcerors for more psychic, MOT, etc etc. Its putting a lot more eggs into one basket though, but you can theoratically have a mini terminator death star that itself is ob sec also even if you put in enough points.) I am just not comfortable with putting all my eggs into one basket and prefer a more balanced army.

Melta is better delivered on Bikers. Plasma will alow more flexible Deep Striking options for the Terminators.

The army is flexible. If you don't think you will face much armor (or imperial knights), swop out more combi meltas for combi plasmas. I agree that combi plamas are a lot more flexible for terminator squads and give more shots too. Don't forget that stuff like AV 14 armor do exist, and there are imperial knights to worry about too.

I went with 3 melta term squads and 3 plasma. Ratio can be easily tweaked.

Plasma is still okay against the Knights rear armor.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plasma is still okay against the Knights rear armor.

Side armor too. only the front is av13

The problem i see here is no reserve manipulation and no ds scatter mitigation. Get ready to get half of them stuck in reserves and another half mishap like crazy.

Don't get me wrong - i love termies. They are just not all that great with full scatter. Some games they do ok. Other games you get a squad per turn out of 4 cause 2 failed reserve rolls and 1 mishapped and went back into reserves.

 koooaei wrote:
The problem i see here is no reserve manipulation and no ds scatter mitigation. Get ready to get half of them stuck in reserves and another half mishap like crazy.

Don't get me wrong - i love termies. They are just not all that great with full scatter. Some games they do ok. Other games you get a squad per turn out of 4 cause 2 failed reserve rolls and 1 mishapped and went back into reserves.

would a dimensional key on jet bike fit in easily? Might be worth it if you can play for the second turn?

Sadly, my old collection of 15 terminators will still be shelfed even with your straregy guide. GW, I want my $150 back please...

nareik wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
The problem i see here is no reserve manipulation and no ds scatter mitigation. Get ready to get half of them stuck in reserves and another half mishap like crazy.

Don't get me wrong - i love termies. They are just not all that great with full scatter. Some games they do ok. Other games you get a squad per turn out of 4 cause 2 failed reserve rolls and 1 mishapped and went back into reserves.

would a dimensional key on jet bike fit in easily? Might be worth it if you can play for the second turn?

Dimensional key will take effect on 3-d turn at best. To make it activate on 1-st turn and provide non-scatter ds, you'll have to spam sorcerors and create a deathstar in hopes of 1-st turn assault. But than why would you need terminators in that scenario.

 koooaei wrote:
The problem i see here is no reserve manipulation and no ds scatter mitigation. Get ready to get half of them stuck in reserves and another half mishap like crazy.

Don't get me wrong - i love termies. They are just not all that great with full scatter. Some games they do ok. Other games you get a squad per turn out of 4 cause 2 failed reserve rolls and 1 mishapped and went back into reserves.

This. I played against it today with my bugs. Had they not scattered they would have mulched about 600 points of Carnifexes in a turn. Instead, 2 mishapped (lords unit was placed behind impassable, the rest came in piecemeal). Scatters are a pretty serious problem with this list. Even with MSU.

 koooaei wrote:

nareik wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
The problem i see here is no reserve manipulation and no ds scatter mitigation. Get ready to get half of them stuck in reserves and another half mishap like crazy.

Don't get me wrong - i love termies. They are just not all that great with full scatter. Some games they do ok. Other games you get a squad per turn out of 4 cause 2 failed reserve rolls and 1 mishapped and went back into reserves.

would a dimensional key on jet bike fit in easily? Might be worth it if you can play for the second turn?

Dimensional key will take effect on 3-d turn at best. To make it activate on 1-st turn and provide non-scatter ds, you'll have to spam sorcerors and create a deathstar in hopes of 1-st turn assault. But than why would you need terminators in that scenario.

I've found playing for second and carrying it on a jetbike it has a decent chance to work turn 1 or 2. Perhaps this is due to the people I am playing, but assuming turn 1 or 2 activation, can it fit in the termi army on a jetbike character?

nareik wrote:

I've found playing for second and carrying it on a jetbike it has a decent chance to work turn 1 or 2. Perhaps this is due to the people I am playing, but assuming turn 1 or 2 activation, can it fit in the termi army on a jetbike character?

You will also need fortification with comms relay or eldar allies for autarch as mitigating scatter is not enough. You also need to ensure their arrival. And 1-st turn assault is quite easy to prevent unless you're lucky with the new psy powers and plan for it.

All in all, it's not an effective tactic. 1 unit of termies with obsec is allready enough imo. You don't get too bogged down if they fail to arrive/mishap. You could even start them on board as a decent scoring unit in your backlines if you're playing aggressively and have nothing else left to score.

Scatter isn't as much am issue when you use Plasma instead of Melta. Ever since I've made that switch I've been so much happier with the results I've gotten.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Scatter isn't as much am issue when you use Plasma instead of Melta. Ever since I've made that switch I've been so much happier with the results I've gotten.

It still tends to fail due to ds nature. I gues we're just using too much impass terrain.

Hmn how much is objective secured giving you? If you deep strike onto an objective you have a 66% chance of scattering off it and if you are running to get back onto it then your not firing your combi weapons. Then when your opponents turn rolls around theres a pretty good chance he can kill 2-3 units of 3 terminators + Lord a turn at 1850 thats only 5/6 wounds with 2+/5++.

Now that helbrutes got a couple extra attacks in the faq you could throw in a Mayhem Pack. 3 naked helbrutes (multimelta powerfist) is great fun.

Chaos Lord Terminator Armour
3x 3 terminators
3x 1 solo nurgle spawn
3x1 solo nurgle obliterator

2 min squads of plague mairnes or regular marines or cultists

1 bunker with comms relay
1 mayhem pack

That would give you a lot of MSU and more importantly the units could actually kill stuff. Need to wipe out some gaunts? deep strike an obliterator and fire the twin linked flamer. Need to take out a landraider drop all the helbrutes about it. Need to take out a unit of fire warriors? charge a spawn into them (if it died to overwatch just charge another one in).

I haven't run the points but you could probably double up on the CAD for even more deepstriking randomness fun.

Dude, the only reason why terminator heavy armies work is because Belial of the Dark Angels has special rules for no scatter turn 1-2 guarantee deployment. That and DA has cml. Even then people opt for ravenwing over deathwing.

Plus if you're already taking the key to make deepstrikes work, imho, the raptor talon becomes much better than the annihilation force. Disordered charge and all.

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Dude, the only reason why terminator heavy armies work is because Belial of the Dark Angels has special rules for no scatter turn 1-2 guarantee deployment. That and DA has cml. Even then people opt for ravenwing over deathwing.

Deathwing never worked. Chaos Terminators getting Combi-Weapons is better than having access to the CML.

I think a key problem with deep striking so many terminators is that a large portion of you units will spend 2-3 turns off table on average...

I would also consider the diminishing returns of deep striking units. I mean if you drop one unit at the best drop site the next unit would drop at a slightly worse spot and so on...

If you are still determined to try it out, how about the Burning Brand? It does something the plasma/melta can't and dropping and firing it twice (as per the formation rule) could be a nasty surprise!