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 Vaktathi wrote:
I dont particularly consider myself partial to either party. However, the Republicans consistently run candidates so awful, or run on policies so kooky, that I end up having to vote Democrat most of time when there is no other choice.

The debates highlight this very well. I was not impressed with Clintons performance, to say the least. I found her to be everything I hate about a career politician riding on the coat tails of others, spouting lots of prepackaged horse gak, divisiveness, and flip flopping on whatever would get her the most donors at the time. However, next to Trump, Hillary seems like a refreshing dose of sanity relative to the hurricane of bs that Trump embodies.

So, in practical terms I end up voting Democrat most of the time, but I'm rarely happy about it and it's usually because the Republicans have gone out of their way to search high and low for someone I like even less than the Democratic candidate.

Have to agree. I think this is especially true of Trump's VP, Mike Pence. Guy led the way in the fight against LGBT people in the state of Indiana. No matter your feelings on LGBT, he definitely tried to discriminate against them and anyone who was Pro-Choice.

I don't even know what it means to be a Republican anymore. I never bought what the they were selling before Trump, and I'm certainly not buying what Trump is selling.

So Democrat

 Vaktathi wrote:
I dont particularly consider myself partial to either party. However, the Republicans consistently run candidates so awful, or run on policies so kooky, that I end up having to vote Democrat most of time when there is no other choice.

Yeah. I don't like unions, I don't like special interest politics, so I'm pretty far removed from your natural Democrat. But the Republicans have been marching further and further down the crazy path that they aren't just unelectable, it becomes imperative to do whatever is needed to keep them away from power.

My party is American. I vote for whoever I think is the lesser of the two evils.

yellowfever wrote:
My party is American. I vote for whoever I think is the lesser of the two evils.

'Murrica!

The lesser of the two evils imo is GARY JOHNSON!

Vote libertarian! Down ticket too if they're running!

Registered Republican since the Reagan Era.


And as much as I dislike Donald Hairpiece, I despise Shillary utterly. Besides, a Trump presidency will probably be entertaining and good for a few laughs.

Anarcho-Socialist.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Besides, a Trump presidency will probably be entertaining and good for a few laughs.

It's rather alarming how many people think that "lol, hold my beer and watch this" is a good reason to vote for someone. I can only pray that you are joking about this...

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Besides, a Trump presidency will probably be entertaining and good for a few laughs.

It's rather alarming how many people think that "lol, hold my beer and watch this" is a good reason to vote for someone. I can only pray that you are joking about this...

The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

I guess nuclear armageddon being touched off by a Twitter spat would be good for a few dark laughs. Briefly.

On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

 Spinner wrote:
On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

This is the boat I find myself in. I would consider myself a moderate who leans liberal. In practice, I tend to vote Democrat, although until this year I was not registered to a political party. I've voted for and donated money to Republicans in years past. Unfortunately, as you say, the GOP has been moving in a very strange direction which no longer makes that tenable.

This year I registered with the Democrats so I could go to the Iowa Caucuses, which I had never done before. Turns out they kinda suck, so I don't think I'll do that again and I'll switch back to independent after the election.

Kind of surprised with these poll results. The OT always seemed to be pretty evenly split in ideology. Perhaps there are a larger amount of democratic-leaning lurkers vs a smaller number of more vocal republicans.

... or perhaps Trump is just a bridge too far.

 Spinner wrote:
The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

It's especially amazing because Republicans have spent the last eight years complaining about how much Obama has gotten done through regulatory manoeuvring, effectively bypassing congress. It seems many Republicans learned to repeat that attack on Obama, without actually learning what it meant or how a president can operate. Because they seem oblivious to the reality that Trump, like every president, will direct government departments to enact a large part of his agenda, whether congress is on board or not.

 Ouze wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

This is the boat I find myself in. I would consider myself a moderate who leans liberal. In practice, I tend to vote Democrat, although until this year I was not registered to a political party. I've voted for and donated money to Republicans in years past. Unfortunately, as you say, the GOP has been moving in a very strange direction which no longer makes that tenable.

This year I registered with the Democrats so I could go to the Iowa Caucuses, which I had never done before. Turns out they kinda suck, so I don't think I'll do that again and I'll switch back to independent after the election.

Kind of surprised with these poll results. The OT always seemed to be pretty evenly split in ideology. Perhaps there are a larger amount of democratic-leaning lurkers vs a smaller number of more vocal republicans.

... or perhaps Trump is just a bridge too far.

The poll asks both the questions R v D and Hill v Don, so I'm not really sure it's actually all that useful XD. I assumed this was operating on a "who will you vote for this year" kind of thing.

 sebster wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

It's especially amazing because Republicans have spent the last eight years complaining about how much Obama has gotten done through regulatory manoeuvring, effectively bypassing congress. It seems many Republicans learned to repeat that attack on Obama, without actually learning what it meant or how a president can operate. Because they seem oblivious to the reality that Trump, like every president, will direct government departments to enact a large part of his agenda, whether congress is on board or not.

There has also been discussion that Trump has the personal wealth to fund his own super-PACs with the capacity to ruin anyone in congress who tries to oppose him (and apparently that's legal).

 Spinner wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Besides, a Trump presidency will probably be entertaining and good for a few laughs.

It's rather alarming how many people think that "lol, hold my beer and watch this" is a good reason to vote for someone. I can only pray that you are joking about this...

The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

I guess nuclear armageddon being touched off by a Twitter spat would be good for a few dark laughs. Briefly.

On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

The entire political establishment is one big joke to begin with, and worthy of my contempt for it. It's gotten a bit too smug in the nice little niche it's carved out for itself. If it takes somebody like "The Hairpiece" to throw a wrench into the works, and shake things up a bit, so be it. There is always the possibility that something good might come out of it. With Clinton, it'll just be "Same , different day".


The GOP can try and rally the Party behind Trump all they want to, but he will never be acceptable to the neocons and RINOs that infest the Republican Party's cancer-ridden carcass, and who literally makes the Republican Party "Democrat Lite" in the minds of old school Republicans (like myself).


There is nothing overly dangerous about Trump that hasn't been true of past occupants of the Oval Office. Racial politics? That's been the Democrats' area of expertise. Nationalism? The majority of people in United States has always been nationalistic in the traditional sense, especially conservatives. Loss of international standing? The Teleprompter-in-Chief and Dubya have (or had) been doing a good enough job of that already. Sending a message about lying candidates? Seriously? I find this hilarious considering despite all of her blatant, well-known lies and inky past, a ton of people have drank the spin-doctor Kool-Aide, and make rationalizations regarding her just because "she's not Trump" or because of straight up ideology. Just like the Trumpeters who want Trump simply because of crap like "he'll build the wall".


Most don't stop to think that the political establishment, and it's obvious failings, is the reason behind the recent return of populism (as evident in the Trump camp, something that has traditionally been the game of "yellow dog" Democrats). People are fed up with the BS, and many think they can send a message by backing Trump. Whether of not that will work remains to be seen.


Getting back on topic somewhat, I may be a long time Republican. But that doesn't mean I march lock-step with the Party. I will vote for Democrats in local and State elections, and Congressional races if the candidate meets my approval. As for the race to the White House, I will be voting for Trump (despite my personal distaste toward him). I know who and what Clinton is, and I do not like it. Trump MIGHT (notice I said MIGHT) slow down a bit, and actually do a decent job. If not, then we get that badly needed shake-up of the status-quo I mentioned earlier. I would rather go with a wild card than go with the "safer", but same old dirty choice. In this race, as far as I'm concerned, Trump IS the "lesser of two evils", regardless of what the spin doctors would have people believe.


Anyway, I've derailed the thread enough, even though that wasn't my intention. I'd hate to see a mod get trigger-happy on this thread with the lock feature.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Spinner wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Besides, a Trump presidency will probably be entertaining and good for a few laughs.

It's rather alarming how many people think that "lol, hold my beer and watch this" is a good reason to vote for someone. I can only pray that you are joking about this...

The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

I guess nuclear armageddon being touched off by a Twitter spat would be good for a few dark laughs. Briefly.

On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

The entire political establishment is one big joke to begin with, and worthy of my contempt for it. It's gotten a bit too smug in the nice little niche it's carved out for itself. If it takes somebody like "The Hairpiece" to throw a wrench into the works, and shake things up a bit, so be it. There is always the possibility that something good might come out of it. With Clinton, it'll just be "Same , different day".


The GOP can try and rally the Party behind Trump all they want to, but he will never be acceptable to the neocons and RINOs that infest the Republican Party's cancer-ridden carcass, and who literally makes the Republican Party "Democrat Lite" in the minds of old school Republicans (like myself).


There is nothing overly dangerous about Trump that hasn't been true of past occupants of the Oval Office. Racial politics? That's been the Democrats' area of expertise. Nationalism? The majority of people in United States has always been nationalistic in the traditional sense, especially conservatives. Loss of international standing? The Teleprompter-in-Chief and Dubya have (or had) been doing a good enough job of that already. Sending a message about lying candidates? Seriously? I find this hilarious considering despite all of her blatant, well-known lies and inky past, a ton of people have drank the spin-doctor Kool-Aide, and make rationalizations regarding her just because "she's not Trump" or because of straight up ideology. Just like the Trumpeters who want Trump simply because of crap like "he'll build the wall".


Most don't stop to think that the political establishment, and it's obvious failings, is the reason behind the recent return of populism (as evident in the Trump camp, something that has traditionally been the game of "yellow dog" Democrats). People are fed up with the BS, and many think they can send a message by backing Trump. Whether of not that will work remains to be seen.


Getting back on topic somewhat, I may be a long time Republican. But that doesn't mean I march lock-step with the Party. I will vote for Democrats in local and State elections, and Congressional races if the candidate meets my approval. As for the race to the White House, I will be voting for Trump (despite my personal distaste toward him). I know who and what Clinton is, and I do not like it. Trump MIGHT (notice I said MIGHT) slow down a bit, and actually do a decent job. If not, then we get that badly needed shake-up of the status-quo I mentioned earlier. I would rather go with a wild card than go with the "safer", but same old dirty choice. In this race, as far as I'm concerned, Trump IS the "lesser of two evils", regardless of what the spin doctors would have people believe.


Anyway, I've derailed the thread enough, even though that wasn't my intention. I'd hate to see a mod get trigger-happy on this thread with the lock feature.

You know, a sobering/depressing thought: Trump won't change much, even if he's elected. He's alienated so many people from both sides that any bills he tries to pass will most likely be shotdown from a combined effort. Sure, the Republicans are trying to get voters to rally behind him to stop Hillary from winning, but when it comes down to it, I bet money the House will stand against him. So yes, while I'd like to see a change happen in our political system, it's so overgrown at this point I doubt it will happen.

That being said, I'm still not voting for Trump. I'm not a fan of his candor or his sentiments, and I think he's both a racist and a misogynist.

Also, I think it's rather hilarious for someone so disenfranchised by the political system, you still find time to be elitist about other people's choice to "drink the kool-aid" and be influenced by "spin doctors". Bravo

I have been on a long political journey. In the days of Reagan and Bush One I was a Republican, then for Clinton and GW I was an Independent, now for Obama and this election I am definitely a Democrat, and possibly a Socialist.

Funny thing about politics. I am not sure if I have changed, or the politics have changed so much but I am guessing it is a bit of both.

 Ouze wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

This is the boat I find myself in. I would consider myself a moderate who leans liberal. In practice, I tend to vote Democrat, although until this year I was not registered to a political party. I've voted for and donated money to Republicans in years past. Unfortunately, as you say, the GOP has been moving in a very strange direction which no longer makes that tenable.

This year I registered with the Democrats so I could go to the Iowa Caucuses, which I had never done before. Turns out they kinda suck, so I don't think I'll do that again and I'll switch back to independent after the election.

Kind of surprised with these poll results. The OT always seemed to be pretty evenly split in ideology. Perhaps there are a larger amount of democratic-leaning lurkers vs a smaller number of more vocal republicans.

... or perhaps Trump is just a bridge too far.

I see it as Trump is just a bridge too far...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smacks wrote:

 sebster wrote:

 Spinner wrote:
The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

It's especially amazing because Republicans have spent the last eight years complaining about how much Obama has gotten done through regulatory manoeuvring, effectively bypassing congress. It seems many Republicans learned to repeat that attack on Obama, without actually learning what it meant or how a president can operate. Because they seem oblivious to the reality that Trump, like every president, will direct government departments to enact a large part of his agenda, whether congress is on board or not.

There has also been discussion that Trump has the personal wealth to fund his own super-PACs with the capacity to ruin anyone in congress who tries to oppose him (and apparently that's legal).

That's not a given.

George Soros and Shelden Anderson gives feth tons of jack to various super-PACs to some iffy effect.

 Easy E wrote:
I have been on a long political journey. In the days of Reagan and Bush One I was a Republican, then for Clinton and GW I was an Independent, now for Obama and this election I am definitely a Democrat, and possibly a Socialist.

Funny thing about politics. I am not sure if I have changed, or the politics have changed so much but I am guessing it is a bit of both.

I'm sort of this.... I was basically a kid for Clinton, but when I was first able to vote, younger dumber me supported Bush Jr. (until my second deployment opened my eyes)... now, as I've continued my education I've leaned further and further left. I've been accused of some TEA party libertarian types of being a commie socialist, which may not be a bad thing, all things considered.

Although British, I feel more left-wing than I did 30 years ago. I think this is because the political spectrum has shifted significantly to the right while my views have remained roughly steady. Thatcher came to power the year before I turned 18.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Although British, I feel more left-wing than I did 30 years ago. I think this is because the political spectrum has shifted significantly to the right while my views have remained roughly steady. Thatcher came to power the year before I turned 18.

Honestly, part of me wishes I could say this about myself... However, I can easily see where my education has played a significant role in my shift in views.

Where's my giant meteor option?

Vote early, vote often, vote Quimby. He'd vote for you!

Withdrawn. Got political on a previous post. Wrong thread.

I am Libertarian, I will not be held responsible for you idiots electing a crazy cat lady or a New Yorker wil cheeto dust blown into his face.

Hell I dont even like Johnson, we should have picked McAfee.

 Spinner wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Besides, a Trump presidency will probably be entertaining and good for a few laughs.

It's rather alarming how many people think that "lol, hold my beer and watch this" is a good reason to vote for someone. I can only pray that you are joking about this...

The pattern of argument is usually 'he won't be able to get anything done because both parties will team up on him, so it's okay because he's so cah-raaaaazy!'. Which is...kinda willfully blind, given how one party is trying its darndest to beat its members into line behind him, and that's completely ignoring all the other damage - loss of international standing, legitimizing racial nationalist politics, sending the message that we don't care how many lies our candidate barfs up, and so on and so forth.

I guess nuclear armageddon being touched off by a Twitter spat would be good for a few dark laughs. Briefly.

On topic - Independent, but effectively Democrat because the GOP grows progressively less and less sane.

Don't forget, though, that Clinton was instrumental in much of the chaos currently happening in the Middle East.