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12 would've been perfect I felt. Honestly Genestealer spam was not auto win at the top levels, it lost hard to RavenSpam. But, that also took the nerf luckily. Here's a question: where do we go next? What're our most competitive units now? Rockgriders aren't terrible but are still pricey. Right now I want to do a three part list of Nids/GSC/Guard but I really can't figure out what the GSC does best. Russes are strictly inferior as they don't receive the IG buffs and the GSC buffs don't help them. Same thing with Neophytes, I feel like Elysians completely invalidate them. I *could* stick to Genestealers but that feels so much less efficient now. Could try to send two rockgrinders upfield with Guard and Nid fire support.

Yeah, I think they over did it... But I think the hidden strength of the GSC is the Psy powerz, so maybe a doting throng and Magus would be a decent Troop choice (and a HQ) if they have a Icon ward near, and set up in cover they could handle a Huge Alpha. And still do work if they don't get mauled.

Heck I am still temped to take GSC even thogh I have always been 100% Nids. Some of the units have Tyranid as a Keyword, so all I'd lose is Ambush. But I could get some cool Psycher trix. If I only got to Mind Control a Assassin, or Sniper into shooting a HQ Once it would be glorius.

Hello all,

I just signed up for this board because I've come back for the 8th edition. My favorite army is Blood Angels but I wanted to get something different to start this edition. I've always been into the "cultist" side of the game and was pleased to see that GSC are in the new (probably last couple of) edition.

For models on the board I plan to run two rock grinders with a load out of aberrants + icon in one and a group of acolytes in the other. I will also run 1-2 large neophyte squads.I will have a magus with these squads moving up to throw spells.

For ambush I plan to have a large group of GS with a primus. His reroll to land his ambush will help get that group into combat.

For my remaining ambush squads I may just do more GS, with the primarch. Either that or add some acolytes. I don't know how I feel about the acolytles/metamorphs on the ambush. I think with a good roll they would be great. Without the roll they'll be fodder.

Anyway, this board has been very helpful.

brother_b wrote:
Hello all,

I just signed up for this board because I've come back for the 8th edition. My favorite army is Blood Angels but I wanted to get something different to start this edition. I've always been into the "cultist" side of the game and was pleased to see that GSC are in the new (probably last couple of) edition.

For models on the board I plan to run two rock grinders with a load out of aberrants + icon in one and a group of acolytes in the other. I will also run 1-2 large neophyte squads.I will have a magus with these squads moving up to throw spells.

For ambush I plan to have a large group of GS with a primus. His reroll to land his ambush will help get that group into combat.

For my remaining ambush squads I may just do more GS, with the primarch. Either that or add some acolytes. I don't know how I feel about the acolytles/metamorphs on the ambush. I think with a good roll they would be great. Without the roll they'll be fodder.

Anyway, this board has been very helpful.

Welcome. Genestealers and neophytes do ambush pretty well.

Hanoc wrote:
There is a new FAQ.

The Purestrain Genestealer go back up to 15 points.

They started at 18, then 10, then 15.

I'm not sure what happened at that 10. It's the same cost that the tyranid version but maybe the cult ambush made them overpowered. The ammount of genestaler spam we where seing here is proof to that.

To me 15 seems a bit much, specially compared to the tyranid version but, of course, I'm not an impartial party.

Link to the FAQ

Cheers for the link, I wish they turned the entire paragraph magenta instead of just "15" I missed it on the first readthrough. A needed nerf I think atleast to keep the in-codex relative points in balance. I think they are still good but not good enough to spam as anti-vehicle.

So what do you bring as anti-tank, abberants, acolytes with blasting charges or mining weapons, the Russ or something completly different?

Scout Sentinels with Lascannons and HK missiles for me. But, admittedly Guard allies do it best as far as anti tank goes.

jifel wrote:Here's a question: where do we go next? What're our most competitive units now?

I think most of the army is still fairly strong, the only units I'd really advise avoiding are Metamorphs (at least until they get a price adjustment of their own and/or some tweaks to their weapons) and the cult version of AM units since they can be gotten as allies (barring Sentinels - since we have no other Fast Attack if we want a Brigade). The rest all have a role of some sort to play, though there are a lot of variables in how valuable they may be (Acolytes for instance are probably better served as allies for AM since they cover a niche that Neophytes do not, while faction pure Neophytes are stronger since they are the primary source of ranged anti-infantry in faction and all other infantry compete for the melee shock-trooper role).

Admittedly it is a bit biased based on our local meta, but if I were to attend a local tournament using only my GSC, I'd probably look towards Goliath and Aberrant spam supported by ambushing Neophytes and characters. I've found Aberrants to actually be surprisingly tough against a lot of common weapons and they have a small squad footprint so they are fairly easy to hide. The S10 hammers are also a huge help against fortifications and heavier vehicles that give S8 and S4 rending claws fits...

jifel wrote:
Same thing with Neophytes, I feel like Elysians completely invalidate them.

I'm not familiar with Elysians apart from their being able to deploy via grav-chute, but assuming their infantry are mostly similar to regular guardsmen outside of their deployment shenanigans Neophytes should still have a place in-faction since the former is oriented towards shooting alone while the latter is more oriented towards a mixture of shooting and assault (everyone has autopistols so they can shoot while engaged, most GSC buffs are melee oriented, can take a 20-strong unit for more staying power and more attacks, etc.). Running them alongside guard I'd probably opt for Shotguns instead of Autoguns, since the extra rapid-fire S3 is redundant but the mass of close-range S4 or ability to run-and-gun should be useful.

I would actually be interested in seeing an Elysian + GSC army. If I remember right Elysians are the only Imperial force with wheeled vehicles, which would probably look really nice amongst our Goliaths.

jifel wrote:
12 would've been perfect I felt. Honestly Genestealer spam was not auto win at the top levels [...] I *could* stick to Genestealers but that feels so much less efficient now.

I think the main reason for the price being where it is now rather than 12 is to not invalidate the Hive Fleet Genestealers rather than pure tournament performance (unlike the flyer nerf). As seen in the Tyranid thread, the prior price point had everyone swapping their Genestealers out for Purestrains and the Hive Fleet Genestealers can't really get much cheaper than they are without overshadowing all other Tyranid troops even more than they do now. At 15 points per model the Purestrains have a fair balance between being cheap enough to bring in large squads but just expensive enough that Hive Fleet 'stealers can be considered as a viable budget alternative.

I have 5 Hybrid Metamorphs build, where 4 have hand flamers. Are hand flamers worth it in any way? They seem pretty expensive.
Ignoring the fact that Metamorphs are too expensive anyway right now. I could probably play them as Acolyths...

 Astmeister wrote:
I have 5 Hybrid Metamorphs build, where 4 have hand flamers. Are hand flamers worth it in any way? They seem pretty expensive.
Ignoring the fact that Metamorphs are too expensive anyway right now. I could probably play them as Acolyths...

I used to be a big fan of mass hand flamers in 7th (my old metamorph squad practically did more damage by popping up and flaming than in assault) but they got hit pretty bad by the loss of templates, close range ambushes, and the general cost hike on 1st and 2nd generation hybrids. I'm tempted to try running a flamer squad build using Acolytes for hoard clearing (flame and then charge with cult knives) but I don't think such a build would be worth it on Metamorphs since they already pay so much for their weapons and the extra attack they get over an Acolyte.

Also worth noting, Demolition Charge Acolytes don't trade in their pistols for their explosives, so they are probably one of the better places for the weapon since it gives them something to do once their explosives have been tossed.

Reading through genestealer cult units, I see 4 hq, 2 heavy support, those are fine, I understand their role.

I do not understand the 3 different mellee elite slots, and the one troop mellee slot. What role do they perform better then the others?

The two transports also both seem interchangable.

Could someone help me understand them?

 Niiai wrote:

I do not understand the 3 different mellee elite slots, and the one troop mellee slot. What role do they perform better then the others?

Genestealers: Fast, general purpose damage dealer and the best ambusher since they have the mobility to overcome a bad ambush roll.

Aberrants: Aberrants are the only source of S10 melee in-faction for smashing very high toughness units such as fortifications and heavy vehicles. They also are the only multi-wound infantry models in faction that aren't characters and their Bestial Vigor rule makes them fairly resilient against 2 damage or D3 damage weapons.

Acolyte Hybrids: Acolytes are for armor cracking and anti-vehicle/monster using their special weapons. Demolition Charges are their primary tool for this task, either as drive-by bombings or as a means to soften up a target before finishing it off in melee. Rock Cutters are for multi-wound infantry/monsters, Rock Drills are for large vehicles/monsters and fortifications, and Rock Saws are more or less general purpose (being more accurate than Cutters and being cheaper than the Drills).

Metamorph Hybrids: Anti-infantry melee squad with rending claws as back-up. Whip-morphs are for soaking hits since they are the cheapest variant and always get to swing, Talon-morphs are for accurate anti-infantry attacks (hitting on 2's without a Primus' oversight), and Claw-morphs are for lowering the to-wound threshold by 1.


In terms of mathhammer, Genestealers with their bonus attack are the most cost efficient melee unit until you get to T5+ models with more than 2 wounds each, wherein Aberrants with hammers overtake them in terms of wounds inflicted per point spent. Acolytes sit somewhere between the two depending on target/weapon/squad size and Metamorphs are in general too expensive for what they do. It is worth noting though, both Acolytes and Metamorphs have access to the Cult Icon while the other two do not, so they do have the option of rerolling 1's which is quite handy when paired with something that lets either hit on 2's.

 Niiai wrote:

The two transports also both seem interchangable.

For the most part they are, though the Goliath truck is a better platform for shooting squads since it is open topped and has a fairly good gun in its own right while the Chimera is a bit tougher and has a higher transport capacity so it is better for delivering assault squads. Also worth remembering that the Goliath Rockgrinder also has a transport capacity as well, though it can only carry assault squads. The Goliath is slightly more resilient against weapons and abilities that deal mortal wounds though since it has the 6+ Rugged Construction to fall back on.

Thank you.

The Chimera fit's 12. sounds like a good place to fit a primarc and 11 genestealers. Probably the best delivery system out of rolling very lucky on the infiltrate table.

The Goliath Trukk sounds like a funn gunn car. Drive within 24 or 12 and kill things. 2 support weapons for funn.

It does not sound like good use of points having it stand still with a lascannon squad inside.

Since there seems to be a fair amount of cut and paste between indexes and codexes, the most hope inspiring thing I've seen is in the new CSM codex.

Tide of Traitors: Remove a unit of Cultists from the table at the end of your movement phase and return them to the game within 6″ of a table edge and 9″ away from enemy units at full strength.

 adamsouza wrote:
Since there seems to be a fair amount of cut and paste between indexes and codexes, the most hope inspiring thing I've seen is in the new CSM codex.

Tide of Traitors: Remove a unit of Cultists from the table at the end of your movement phase and return them to the game within 6″ of a table edge and 9″ away from enemy units at full strength.

Word! I yearn for the days of yore, and "endless" I hope Gaunts get a version as well.

Hello!
Sorry, I've just made an account on the forum because I'm pretty desperate to get my army together lol.

I've started collecting genestealer cults for the new edition and haven't been doing well.

I usually have a good one or two turns, killing crazy amounts of stuff in the opening turns, but then quickly run out of steam as whatever units I ambushed are gunned down/countercharged.

My army also struggles with transports, as whatever unit I send after it cracks open the transport and is killed by whats inside.

I also struggle with enemy commanders (such as plague lords). I've had two games now where I've attacked such a unit with strong unit of acolytes, failed to kill it in one round, and then lost 4 to the counter attack, eventually losing the squad to attrition and morale.

And I've recently had a game where I've been more or less unable to to do anything about a unit of Wraithguard with D-Scythes and laser-bikes.

I just wonder if I'm bad at 40k now or something. I've even tried adding basilisks to my army (I don't want to overdue it with allies, I really want my army to be mutants and mining equipment!) But I've played nine games and won ONE of them.

Please tell me there's a viable way to play my army (I don't really like purestrain genestealers or want to use a bunch of allies, but I have plenty of neophytes, acolytes, transports and aberrants!)....

Alternatively... tell me my army is really underpowered for prides sake.
Thanks for reading

Szunray wrote:
Hello!
Sorry, I've just made an account on the forum because I'm pretty desperate to get my army together lol.

I've started collecting genestealer cults for the new edition and haven't been doing well.

I usually have a good one or two turns, killing crazy amounts of stuff in the opening turns, but then quickly run out of steam as whatever units I ambushed are gunned down/countercharged.

My army also struggles with transports, as whatever unit I send after it cracks open the transport and is killed by whats inside.

I also struggle with enemy commanders (such as plague lords). I've had two games now where I've attacked such a unit with strong unit of acolytes, failed to kill it in one round, and then lost 4 to the counter attack, eventually losing the squad to attrition and morale.

And I've recently had a game where I've been more or less unable to to do anything about a unit of Wraithguard with D-Scythes and laser-bikes.

I just wonder if I'm bad at 40k now or something. I've even tried adding basilisks to my army (I don't want to overdue it with allies, I really want my army to be mutants and mining equipment!) But I've played nine games and won ONE of them.

Please tell me there's a viable way to play my army (I don't really like purestrain genestealers or want to use a bunch of allies, but I have plenty of neophytes, acolytes, transports and aberrants!)....

Alternatively... tell me my army is really underpowered for prides sake.
Thanks for reading

Well, I don't play GSC, but...not liking Purestrains is a part of the problem. They are your "heavy hitters" How much Psycher trix are you using? GSC has some pretty boss Psychic powerz...?

Well, I usually use mass hypnosis and might from beyond in my opening ambush. I use mass hypnosis to halt overwatch from flamer squads, or just nerf a shooting unit I wont be able to tie up.
Unfortunately, the powers go off about half the time, and get denied about half the time... and the squad the magus is attending usually only gets one shot at charging before they get wiped out!

I hear people say I need Genestealers but, that's surprisingly, the least attractive unit to me. I got the army to run tau battlesuits over with bulldozers and have my shirtless mooks swat helldrakes out the sky with mining equipment... The Genestealers just don't do it for me.

Is that my problem? I'd hate to have to use a bunch of one particular unit just to have a chance, but that's better than having to ally a bunch of stuff at least.

Yeah...kinda. Purestrains can eat space marines for breakfast, and can charge off an advance. Not only can they delete units on their own, they fix the attention of the foe. Without that, the job is much harder. I suppose lots of goofballs with Shotguns can help though

The problem you mentioned is taking out the rock hard stuff, and thats what the "G" in GSC does best. Hopefully some actual GSC players can add more, I play Nids exclusively myself. But I am considering Purestrains as allies for "serious" games.

Szunray wrote:
I usually have a good one or two turns, killing crazy amounts of stuff in the opening turns, but then quickly run out of steam as whatever units I ambushed are gunned down/countercharged.

That has been my experience with first turn ambushes too. I've found it is better to use your Ambushers to encircle the foe and close off avenues of escape rather than pull off an alpha strike, unless you think you can pull it off without much retaliation (eliminating an isolated fire support unit for instance). I've also found Neophytes are the best suited for alpha-strike ambushing, as they can drop in on cover and happily plink away at foes with their ranged weapons without exposing themselves.

Szunray wrote:

My army also struggles with transports, as whatever unit I send after it cracks open the transport and is killed by what's inside.

I also struggle with enemy commanders (such as plague lords). I've had two games now where I've attacked such a unit with strong unit of acolytes, failed to kill it in one round, and then lost 4 to the counter attack, eventually losing the squad to attrition and morale.

I've been using a combination of (Heavy) Mining Lasers and Demolition Charges for most of my anti-transport work. Demolition Charges are also excellent for tough characters like the aforementioned Plague Lord, as they can force a lot of wounds on them and soften them up for the ensuing charge.

Apart from that, the Patriarch is ideal for shredding enemy characters since he has an invulnerable save backed up with Unquestioning Loyalty to keep him safe and his claws inflict high damage with good AP. A Primus can also do some damage with his toxin injector claw, but he is better off leading minions to do the bulk of the work since he is far more fragile. Aberrants in general are also fairly good at bashing characters, but they don't like fighting targets with good invulnerable saves. If all else fails, Smite spam on the part of Magi or clever application of Mind Control should suffice.

Szunray wrote:

I hear people say I need Genestealers but, that's surprisingly, the least attractive unit to me. I got the army to run tau battlesuits over with bulldozers and have my shirtless mooks swat helldrakes out the sky with mining equipment... The Genestealers just don't do it for me.

Is that my problem? I'd hate to have to use a bunch of one particular unit just to have a chance, but that's better than having to ally a bunch of stuff at least.

You don't need them to win, but Genestealers are a very strong and flexible unit simply because they throw so many dice. Nothing likes being on the receiving end of 80-odd attacks, especially when a sixth of them will more or less ignore armor entirely. That said, other units can perform similar functions to Genestealers, just they don't have the sheer flexibility their cousins offer due to a lower dice pool paired with more specialized weapons.

- Acolytes can do anti-hoard with their Knives, but aren't quite as good at taking on heavy infantry due to fewer rending attacks and their special weapons are biased towards large multi-wound targets.
- Metamorphs with Whips have the same number of Rending attacks as Genestealers do at 5-10 strong units for the same cost, though they don't have the invulnerable save for dueling other melee specialists (whips help a bit).
- Aberrants with Power Picks are descent against heavy infantry (and actually pull slightly ahead of Genestealers against 2-3 wound models) but lack the volume of attacks for more numerous infantry.

Szunray wrote:


I just wonder if I'm bad at 40k now or something. I've even tried adding basilisks to my army (I don't want to overdue it with allies, I really want my army to be mutants and mining equipment!) But I've played nine games and won ONE of them.

I'm 50/50 with them myself and favor the industrial side of the army as well. A lot of it stems from knowing when to launch an ambush and when to hold back and bait the foe into a trap. I have a habit picked up from my Tyranids of getting overly aggressive which generally comes back to bite me...

That said, always play for the objectives. GSC is very good at getting troops to where they need to be for scoring while keeping the enemy busy with scary melee units. As long as you can keep the enemy off the objectives, nothing else matters.

Szunray wrote:

Please tell me there's a viable way to play my army (I don't really like purestrain genestealers or want to use a bunch of allies, but I have plenty of neophytes, acolytes, transports and aberrants!)....

Using just the industrial side of the army, I'd look towards Goliaths and Neophytes to make up the core of your list with a handful of Acolytes and Aberrants to provide heavy armor cracking and counter-assault. I've been having my Neophytes ambush and the melee units ride in transports, but depending on the match-up you can swap who rides and who walks. You will want at least one Primus if you have any Rockgrinders as he improves their efficiency tremendously.

Szunray wrote:

Alternatively... tell me my army is really underpowered for prides sake.
Thanks for reading

I'm not sure about underpowered per say, but I'd definitely say it has a hefty learning curve when played without allies and is fairly unforgiving of mistakes. I imagine a lot will improve when the codex is finally released, as our 7th edition book had most of its strength tied to special abilities.

A bit of mathhammer regarding our melee units. The most efficient point per wounds inflicted in each category is underlined, with the small caveat that Rock Cutters and Rock Drills do not have their special abilities calculated into their average damage (need to ask my brother how to calculate them) and the calculations are looking only at damage output and are assuming all models are able to fight, with no external buffs or debuffs.

Anyway:

VS: T3 5+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip - Using Rending Claw): 12.27 wounds @ 12.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 11.8 wounds @ 18.64 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 11.8 wounds @ 15.25 points per wound.
- 10x Genestealers: 11.8 wounds @ 12.7 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 23.76 wounds @ 9.46 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 8.91 wounds @ 12.3 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 8 wounds @ 13.75 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.52 wounds @ 46.5 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.6 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 3.5 wounds @ 20.7 points per wound.


VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (1 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 10x Genestealers: 6.53 wounds @ 22.9 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 10.21 wounds @ 20.37 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 9.08 wounds @ 22.24 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.09 wounds @ 53.07 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 2.69 wounds @ 53.53 points per wound.

VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (2 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 10x Genestealers: 6.53 wounds @ 22.9 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 14.86 wounds @ 13.9 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 12.6 wounds @ 16.03 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.19 wounds @ 26.46 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 4.59 wounds @ 27 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 5.39 wounds @ 26.71 points per wound.


VS: T5, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 10x Genestealers: 4.85 wounds @ 30.9 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.9 wounds @ 28.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 9.29 wounds @ 17.65 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.63 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 6.94 wounds @20.74 points per wound.

VS: T7, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.23 wounds @ 98.65 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 10x Genestealers: 4.85 wounds @ 30.9 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.39 wounds @ 32.44 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.

VS: T8, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 3.2 wounds @ 46.87 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.22 wounds @ 99.09 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 1.44 wounds @ 125 points per wound.
- 10x Genestealers: 3.16 wounds @ 47.46 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 6.3 wounds @ 35.7 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 1.08 wounds @ 101.85 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.27 wounds @ 33.63 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 6.65 wounds @ 31.27 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 4.01 wounds @ 57.35 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 5.37 wounds @ 37.61 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.

Surprisingly, Metamorphs with whips slightly out perform Genestealers at smaller unit sizes due to the Metamorph Leader. Once the bonus attack from having more than 10 models kicks in, the Genestealers surge ahead again. The other two weapons are both fairly poor in comparison, owing more to their costs than anything else (Claw especially - even against its ideal target brackets of T3 and T5 models it under performs compared to the talons or whips).

What size bases are genestealers on? I have some from years back that are clearly on 25mm, but I saw someone saying they were 32mm in another post.

Are GSC genestealers based differently than Tyranid?

 argonak wrote:
What size bases are genestealers on? I have some from years back that are clearly on 25mm, but I saw someone saying they were 32mm in another post.

Are GSC genestealers based differently than Tyranid?

The Genestealer kit comes with 25mm slotted bases while the Purestrains that come in Overkill are on 32mm bases like the Acolytes/Metamorphs/Aberrants. If they release a new Genestealer kit that builds both Hive Fleet Genestealers and Purestrains they will probably go on the larger bases, but for now just stick with the ones the individual model is packed with.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Szunray wrote:

Please tell me there's a viable way to play my army (I don't really like purestrain genestealers or want to use a bunch of allies, but I have plenty of neophytes, acolytes, transports and aberrants!)....

Using just the industrial side of the army, I'd look towards Goliaths and Neophytes to make up the core of your list with a handful of Acolytes and Aberrants to provide heavy armor cracking and counter-assault. I've been having my Neophytes ambush and the melee units ride in transports, but depending on the match-up you can swap who rides and who walks. You will want at least one Primus if you have any Rockgrinders as he improves their efficiency tremendously.

Szunray wrote:

Alternatively... tell me my army is really underpowered for prides sake.
Thanks for reading

I'm not sure about underpowered per say, but I'd definitely say it has a hefty learning curve when played without allies and is fairly unforgiving of mistakes. I imagine a lot will improve when the codex is finally released, as our 7th edition book had most of its strength tied to special abilities.

Hello again, thanks for your answers!

I just wanted to say I saw your answers and used the advice in my last games. Primus and Rockgrinders are an amazing combination, I had been overlooking demo-charge acolytes (besides looking cool as a model), and melee units fair a lot better being carried in transports rather than ambushing!

That said in the last game I played I... didn't ambush anything. Admittedly, I didn't even use any neophytes. A single unit of imperial guard basilisks did all of my shooting (I play around 1250 mostly)
The basilisks *forced* my opponent to come to me and my acolytes in transports defended them really well.

I haven't quite worked out where neophytes or ambushing will fit into my army (even though I'd like to use both of these) and I know my army isn't the most competitive, but this thread has been really helpful.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 argonak wrote:
What size bases are genestealers on? I have some from years back that are clearly on 25mm, but I saw someone saying they were 32mm in another post.

Are GSC genestealers based differently than Tyranid?

The Genestealer kit comes with 25mm slotted bases while the Purestrains that come in Overkill are on 32mm bases like the Acolytes/Metamorphs/Aberrants. If they release a new Genestealer kit that builds both Hive Fleet Genestealers and Purestrains they will probably go on the larger bases, but for now just stick with the ones the individual model is packed with.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I wanted to know. I was thinking about picking up the overkill box too and using them to add variety to my IG army via brood brothers.

Wondering if GSC players with more experience than myself would comment on this list that i posted in the List part of the forums. I have the GS as 10 points, not 15 so will have to adjust.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/737048.page

Hearing some positive reviews of Abberants in a specialized role as heavy destroyers. I certainly like the idea of fielding them in a Rockgrinder but man...they are A LOT of points.


Different topic:

I really like the look of Ratling Snipers as a unique and powerful unit to field as part of the Brood Brother rule. The Ratling models are not to my liking though. It seems like the most appropriate replacement are the GSC familiar models that come with the Magus and Primus sprues. Trouble is they have no sniper-like weapons. I've been attempting to locate a suitable weapon I could convert onto those small little guys but they are VERY small and even pistols look oversized. Wondering if anyone has suggestions or can I just say they are using their inborn psychic ability to snipe?

Szunray wrote:
Hello again, thanks for your answers!

I just wanted to say I saw your answers and used the advice in my last games. Primus and Rockgrinders are an amazing combination, I had been overlooking demo-charge acolytes (besides looking cool as a model), and melee units fair a lot better being carried in transports rather than ambushing!

That said in the last game I played I... didn't ambush anything. Admittedly, I didn't even use any neophytes. A single unit of imperial guard basilisks did all of my shooting (I play around 1250 mostly)
The basilisks *forced* my opponent to come to me and my acolytes in transports defended them really well.

I haven't quite worked out where neophytes or ambushing will fit into my army (even though I'd like to use both of these) and I know my army isn't the most competitive, but this thread has been really helpful.

Glad to have been of help! I tend to deploy Ambushing Neophytes in annoying-to-deal-with places, such as the top levels of a ruin (ideally close to an objective). Once in place they tend to be ignored as the effort needed to remove them is more trouble than they are worth, despite raining down all manner of munitions.

Caspian89 wrote:
I really like the look of Ratling Snipers as a unique and powerful unit to field as part of the Brood Brother rule. The Ratling models are not to my liking though. It seems like the most appropriate replacement are the GSC familiar models that come with the Magus and Primus sprues. Trouble is they have no sniper-like weapons. I've been attempting to locate a suitable weapon I could convert onto those small little guys but they are VERY small and even pistols look oversized. Wondering if anyone has suggestions or can I just say they are using their inborn psychic ability to snipe?

Maybe take a page from Nurglings and have a pair of Familiars working together to operate a single normal-sized rifle? The Ratlings are a bit bigger/taller than Familiars so it would help make up the difference there too.

Is the primer on the first page updated to 8th edition? They talk about deathclaw formation that has me confused. :p

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Szunray wrote:
Maybe take a page from Nurglings and have a pair of Familiars working together to operate a single normal-sized rifle? The Ratlings are a bit bigger/taller than Familiars so it would help make up the difference there too.

That's a great idea. I'll fiddle around with that for a while. Haven't thought of that. Forum value achieved!

 Niiai wrote:
Is the primer on the first page updated to 8th edition? They talk about deathclaw formation that has me confused. :p

Sadly it is not updated. I'm tempted to start a new thread with an updated primer for 8th but I'm not sure how large a demand there is for one.

I would like a new rated primer. But we don't know how long until we get a new codex. Probably it will be a long time.

I was thinking of putting some cultists into my lid nist. But I find it confusing. A primer would be great.