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So everyone knows at this point that the Angel's Blade supplement isn't going to catapult BA to the top of the tournament scene. That's not to say that it's bad, because it DID give a significant boost to a struggling codex, but it's certainly not Decurion, scatbike spam or White Scars demi company. That being said, the more I look into using the Archangels demi company inside of the Angel's Blade strike force, the more attractive it becomes. Let's take a look at all the army wide bonuses we get from taking these together.

+1 initiative on the charge
Stubborn
Zealot when a squad is under 50% strength
Reserve rolls on turn 1
Reroll failed or successful reserves
1d6 less scatter on all deep striking units

This is a solid list of benefits, though notably lacking in Objective Secured. The required units are strong as well, for the most part. Obviously fragnoughts, sternguard and assault terminators are the standouts, but vanguard vets with inferno pistols become much more dangerous when you can accurately deep strike, and even heavy flamer terminators seem solid for the same reasons. The mother detatchment also doesn't lack for auxilliary choices, though the 10th company ambush force will be the easiest to use for cheap harassment units under 1850. Over that, the Golden Host and Intervention force become almost auto includes. Top it off with a wealth of command choices (jump priests with assault terminators everywhere) and you have yourself a solid force.

So what are everyones thoughts?

This is what I would use to field the bloodcurion for sure. The exact composition is still a bit of a quandry to me, though. This formation is much better with Dante, where you can get no scatter vanguards with melta pistols and hand flamers.

Martel732 wrote:
This is what I would use to field the bloodcurion for sure. The exact composition is still a bit of a quandry to me, though. This formation is much better with Dante, where you can get no scatter vanguards with melta pistols and hand flamers.

My thoughts exactly. I was thinking something along these lines at 1850.

Priest with Angel's Wings

Termie captain with Crown Angelic

2 fragnoughts in pods

10x sternguard with 4 combi meltas in a pod

5 assault termies with hammer/shield

5 tac termies with heavy flamer

2x5 vanguard with packs, 2 shields, 2 melta pistols

2x5 shotgun scouts

2x5 combat scouts

Obviously this is a rough draft, but it puts 11 units on the table, manipulate reserves, and can shoot AND fight. It doesn't have Dante, which sucks, but a MSU vanguard vet army may be able to fit him in.

It's very annoying the regular demi company is so awful.

Martel732 wrote:
It's very annoying the regular demi company is so awful.

True, but the Archangels and LBSF are good. The Archangels+Angel's blade MAY even be great. I want to brainstorm this and see if we BA fans here on Dakka can do donething with it

Make your squads six men if you are going blooducurion.

Martel732 wrote:
Make your squads six men if you are going blooducurion.

I like that idea a lot, but the points get a little weird. Here's a current idea for 1850, like the above list with a little more tweaking

Angel's Blade Strike Force

Command
-Sanguinary Priest
Angel's Wing
Auspex

-Sanguinary Priest
Jump pack
Auspex
Warlord

Archangels Demi-Company
-Terminator Captain

-Furioso Dreadnought
Frag cannon
Heavy flamer
Magna grapple
Drop pod

-Furioso Dreadnought
Frag cannon
Heavy flamer
Magna grapple
Drop pod

-5x Sternguard Veterans
3 combi meltas
Drop pod

-5x Assault Terminators
Thunder hammers/storm shields

-5x Assault Terminators
Thunder hammers/storm shields

-5x Vanguard Veterans
2x2 inferno pistols

-5x Vanguard Veterans
2x2 inferno pistols

10th Company Ambush Force
-5x Scouts
Shotguns

-5x Scouts
Shotguns

-5x Scouts
Combi melta
Close combat weapons

-5x Scouts
Close combat weapons
Combi melta

Priests go with the hammernators for fnp, ws5 and some extra movement or rerolls on charges.

Don't these lists involve a lot of assault terminators standing around getting shot for a turn?

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid in my lists. I can drop 167 pt 6-man naked sternguard in pods, though. Maybe three of those and two vanguards or something. The problem is that this is a large formation full of expensive stuff that you are trying to stuff into an even larger formation.

It's a real competition between this formation and CAD + orbital intervention force. The CAD can provide teleport homers and Capt Karlaen for reserve rerolls. Add Corbs for 55% seize the initiative.

meltapistol vanguards do look interesting with no-scatter ds,

 koooaei wrote:
meltapistol vanguards do look interesting with no-scatter ds,

With no scatter, it's actually more valuable than a meltagun.

Martel732 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
meltapistol vanguards do look interesting with no-scatter ds,

With no scatter, it's actually more valuable than a meltagun.

Why is a melta pistol better than a melta gun?

pm713 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
meltapistol vanguards do look interesting with no-scatter ds,

With no scatter, it's actually more valuable than a meltagun.

Why is a melta pistol better than a melta gun?

You can get a CC attack with it.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid in my lists. I can drop 167 pt 6-man naked sternguard in pods, though. Maybe three of those and two vanguards or something. The problem is that this is a large formation full of expensive stuff that you are trying to stuff into an even larger formation.

It's a real competition between this formation and CAD + orbital intervention force. The CAD can provide teleport homers and Capt Karlaen for reserve rerolls. Add Corbs for 55% seize the initiative.

I'm thinking this is the way I want to go for my Angels. LBSF looks powerful but one-dimensional. I'm old fashioned but I still like the idea of having a variety of different units in my army. CAD plus Orbital Intervention Force (or maybe Golden Host) looks like the best way to achieve this.

LBSF can have a ton of tanks in it, too though. I'm gonna pick up the box set for them because I converted my Brother Moriar model to a fragnought a long time ago. Just not sure what I'll do wtih the foot DC, but they're almost free.

Those termies sitting out in the open will have a 2+/3++/5+++, making them fairly hard to shift.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Those termies sitting out in the open will have a 2+/3++/5+++, making them fairly hard to shift.

Tell that to my boyz

 Krusha wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Those termies sitting out in the open will have a 2+/3++/5+++, making them fairly hard to shift.

Tell that to my boyz

Ok so other assault armies are an exception, lol. But those are thankfully rare.

The more I think about it, the more flexible I'm finding the demi-company.

Captain can be biker captain OR jump pack and join command squad
Assault squad gets melta.
Dreadnought gets assault cannon/multimelta and pod
Devs get 2 X grav and rhino
Tacs get combination of drop melta and heavy flamer fast rhino squads
Command squad is another melta drop with storm shields.

All units are ideally 6 models.

While the angel's blade rules are redundant for this formation, it allows Dante to be the overall commander giving ALL jump units descent of angels, not just his formation. You can much more easily squeeze dante into this list and you are less reliant upon 100% alpha strike. Also realize any sang priest with jump packs also get the benefits of Dante's warlord trait.

I'm a big fan of the idea of the Archangels too, but they just seem internally conflicted. Ideally you would go for all terminators to get the T1 reroll deep strike with scatter reduction, but as a core formation that is ridiculously expensive and not a heck of a lot of punch. Say 1000 points for 25 terminators to arrive next to the enemy and either shoot or stand there. What can other armies do for 1000 points? Surely the orbital intervention force is much better then as long as you can get a reserve reroll.

The sternguard do not really benefit from all the rules and it seems like a waste. Deep striking vanguard are very vulnerable, albeit cheaper. I just see the formation as not really having units that can benefit from its buffs. So surely either the Baal Strike Force or Death Company one are more harmonious and less expensive. What do you think?

I'm looking at a Baal strike force with an orbital intervention for double shooting and assaulting fun.

Sternguard being 2 attacks base means that they can reliably beat up scoring units pretty easily on the charge, especially with red thirst and furious charge. While our special rules for them aren't ideal, it does make them much more well rounded.

The vanguard vets are a cheaper way to fill our core and also put accurate melta on the table. Only scattering d6 or not at all is a pretty huge deal, plus they actually fight nearly as well as death company.

Assault terminators are definitely a consideration for our core tax. Yes, they stand there in the open on the turn they arrive. But they have the defensive capabilities to withstand a turn of shooting. And if they get shot down to 2 models, the unit suddenly jumps back up to nearly full effectiveness. And again, with d6 scatter you get to basically put them wherever you want.

I find myself wishing more tournaments were held at 2000 points, because that seems like the magic number for the Archangels. You can fit a terminator captain, 2 fragpods, 5x5 sternguard in pods with 2 combis each AND the orbital intervention force in at just under 2k. That list sounds BRUTAL.

There's really no reason Stern guard should be charging though. What isn't their ammo killing that isn't a Dread/Wraithknight anyway?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There's really no reason Stern guard should be charging though. What isn't their ammo killing that isn't a Dread/Wraithknight anyway?

Other 3+ armor units. When you use the AP 3 ammo, a lot guys usually miss double tapping.

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
There's really no reason Stern guard should be charging though. What isn't their ammo killing that isn't a Dread/Wraithknight anyway?

Other 3+ armor units. When you use the AP 3 ammo, a lot guys usually miss double tapping.

Correct. Plus we don't have the luxury of rerolls to save us from gets hot. You just have to ask yourself which is better: one shot at str4 ap5 followed by 3 str5 init5 attacks, or 2 poisoned 2+ shots? Against other MEQs, charging will be the better option.

 th3maninblak wrote:

I find myself wishing more tournaments were held at 2000 points, because that seems like the magic number for the Archangels. You can fit a terminator captain, 2 fragpods, 5x5 sternguard in pods with 2 combis each AND the orbital intervention force in at just under 2k. That list sounds BRUTAL.

Nice list!
I like the enthusiasm for the vanguards, but they may be best served deploying on the table rather than deep striking and sitting in the open for a turn with a 3+.
I love Sternguard. My problem with them tho is that they are too well rounded. Good ammo types, good attacks and average SM armor, but you pay for it in points. Essentially an army comprising of them will be too small to be competitive. Plus the sturnguard do not benefit from the reduction in deep strike scatter and when in pods dont get a huge buff from the first turn reserve rolling.

I still think that the Archangels is too much of a 'can do a bit of everything but excel at nothing' formation in comparison to a more specific build around a Baal Stroke Force with a detachment. You get all the bonuses you like for the sternguard (red thrust) but none of the tax.

 Alpha wrote:

I like the enthusiasm for the vanguards, but they may be best served deploying on the table rather than deep striking and sitting in the open for a turn with a 3+

The no-scatter ds allows you to deploy them wherever you want, so it's more and more options for 'not in the open'. 6 melta pistols without scatter will scare even IK. And for cheaper than sternguard.

Although, they cost a ton of points and end up comparable to sternguard with combi-meltas in pods. They do punch harder though. But lack the luxury of ignore cover and poison. Poison can be a big deal vs a number of foes.

6 melta pistols without scatter will scare even IK. And for cheaper than sternguard.

Especially when you can be milimetre-precise. Deploy the first guy specifically on the line between two facings of the knight (and tell your opponent you're doing this to avoid confusion or argument later) and half your squad is in one facing and half in the other, making it impossible to ion-shield both.

Whilst the book added grav-cannons, the only wargear really unique to blood angels (compared to other marines, anyway) is the wierd special weapon pistols, so it's nice to see a detachment which can use them properly.

locarno24 wrote:

6 melta pistols without scatter will scare even IK. And for cheaper than sternguard.

Especially when you can be milimetre-precise. Deploy the first guy specifically on the line between two facings of the knight (and tell your opponent you're doing this to avoid confusion or argument later) and half your squad is in one facing and half in the other, making it impossible to ion-shield both.

Whilst the book added grav-cannons, the only wargear really unique to blood angels (compared to other marines, anyway) is the wierd special weapon pistols, so it's nice to see a detachment which can use them properly.

I'm not sure but it might be technically possible to get 3 out of 5 or 6 to be right on the facing-separating line so they could choose the side they want to fire at. Once again, not sure if it works that way.

 Alpha wrote:
..... Baal Stroke Force ...

And they say Slaanesh is being written out of the game.

Any thoughs on my demi-company comment?