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Getting back into 40k has become staggeringly confusing. In the distant past if I wanted to play Dark Angels all I needed was the D.A. Codex, the Space Marine Codex, and the rulebook. Now I can't even figure out what I need! I'm resurrecting my old Dark Angels, so I bought the D.A. Codex (Hard-copy: looks amazing, but I regret not getting it digital), then I bought the rule book in digital form. Then I wanted to start piecing together a Space Wolves army, so I bought that digital codex. These things have gotten bloody expensive, so I need to start pacing myself and plan out what to buy. I picked up a knight...so I need Imperial Armour? For Space Wolf completion I think I need War Zone Fenris? Ultimately my question is what codices would you rocommend I buy, in what order, to functionally play an army of:
A) Dark Angels (I had a death-raven army in the past, so I'll likely hit those formations again)
B) Space Wolves
C) An Imperial Knight (the more this can match S.W. or D.A. the better)
...and eventually
D) Chaos Space Marines/Demons (I'm told CSM are awful right now so I must ally them into a Daemon army)

Don't need to buy anything - use BattleScribe.

Let's you build your lists for any 40k army, and gives you an overview of statlines, weapons, and special rules you need to know when you've finished. No Codex required.

I would definitely buy a normal rulebook though if you don't know the stuff in it already, since BattleScribe won't explain rules in that for you.

You'll also notice that most reprinted model kits you buy will have a rule sheet to deploy them at the back of the instruction booklet, similar to the entries you find at the back of each codex.

Hope this helps

G.A

That does help, thank you. I do have the rulebook. I'm looking into battlescribe now. If anyone happens to know, I'd still like to know which books are needed for completion's sake.

For playing Dark Angels - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Dark-Angels-English-softback-2016

For playing Space Wolves and their Supplement - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Wolves-Codex-SB-ENG

For Imperial Knights - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Imperial-Knights-ENG

For Chaos Space Marines, and their Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter supplements - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Chaos-Space-Marines-Softback-ENG

And finally Daemons - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Chaos-Daemons-EN

There are no units in the Campaign Supplements that aren't covered in these Codecies, so you're all good if you buy them all.

for dark angels all you NEED is codex dark angels

Thank you very much! So Dark Angels have nothing else? I picked up that codex already.

Got the Space Wolves codex, but need to pick up Champions of Fenris (is the 13th company stuff all in there?) Do I need Warzone Fenris? I know you said the units were all already covered, so I guess I'm asking if you'd pickup WZ:F in my place.

The knights and Chaos stuff looks pretty straight-foward. Again, thanks.

ok, what edition of the space wolf codex do you have,m the normal one, or "wulfen edition" wulfen edition should have everything warzone fenris had (I think I play vanilla marines) you don't NEED champions of fenris, it's a supplement, has some fun new options but entirely optional. think of it like video game expansion pack.

but yeah dark angels have not yet had any supplements so are good "as is"

I DO have The Wulfen Edition!! Thank you so much, you guys really cleared this up for me quick....feel a wee bit dumb for asking now ;P

 Rakar wrote:
Thank you very much! So Dark Angels have nothing else? I picked up that codex already.

Outside of Warzone Pandorax, which is an Apocalypse supplement, no. No need for the Space Marines Codex either.

Got the Space Wolves codex, but need to pick up Champions of Fenris (is the 13th company stuff all in there?) Do I need Warzone Fenris? I know you said the units were all already covered, so I guess I'm asking if you'd pickup WZ:F in my place.

Warzone Fenris and Champions of Fenris will only supply you with extra Formations, Wargear and Warlord Traits that you can use. Champions of Fenris in particular is only for people who have a desire for fielding Grimnar's Great Company. Invest in them if you wish, but they are by no means necessary to assemble a Space Wolf army, nor do they deny you access to anything crucial.

Warzone Fenris has all the 13th Company stuff if I'm correct, but again, Wulfen can be run with a regular Space Wolf army just fine without it.

The knights and Chaos stuff looks pretty straight-foward. Again, thanks.

No worries; I'm no Space Wolf or Chaos connoisseur, so be sure to post questions about Space Wolf armies themselves in this forum, or PM a Space Wolf player (if you can find one)

G.A

No worries; I'm no Space Wolf or Chaos connoisseur, so be sure to post questions about Space Wolf armies themselves in this forum, or PM a Space Wolf player (if you can find one)

That is very very much appreciated. I'm tinkering with a list right now and I will definitely take you up on that. Sons of Russ outta stick together!

You can't play just using battlescribe. Oftentimes it doesn't go through specific special rules and isn't always correct.

If someone tried to play a game against me using battlescribe, they'd not have much luck I'm afraid, and I'm pretty easy going on this kind of thing.

I tried battle scribe and didn't like how it functioned. I got the answers I needed on official literature. That's pretty much how this went.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I love the idea of battle scribe...but was looking for the official pathway

I play dark Angels- all I have for that is the dark Angels codex.
I also play space wolves, have the space wolf codex..

Now, I'm also a chaos player. I have warzone Fenris for all the stuff it gives wolves and daemons.

For CSM (and chaos in general) I have, the CSM codex, black legion supplement, Crimson slaughter supplement Traitor's Hate supplement, Khorne Daemonkin codex, and the daemon codex.

Playing chaos absolutely forces you to buy the most books- especially if you play CSM and want any chance to win.

Battlescribe is nice for list building- but you'll miss a lot of special rules.

General Kroll wrote:You can't play just using battlescribe. Oftentimes it doesn't go through specific special rules and isn't always correct.

If someone tried to play a game against me using battlescribe, they'd not have much luck I'm afraid, and I'm pretty easy going on this kind of thing.

KhorneontheCobb wrote:Battlescribe is nice for list building- but you'll miss a lot of special rules.

All faction specific rules will be displayed in the generated reference sheet, generally quoted verbatim. It doesn't cover stuff in the main rulebook, however.

I've used Battlescribe to great success - it also gets patched on a weekly basis if any errata are present. It has had issues in the past, but most of these have been ironed out, and personally I haven't found any errors in the writing for quite a while.

 General Annoyance wrote:
For playing Dark Angels - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Dark-Angels-English-softback-2016

For playing Space Wolves and their Supplement - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Wolves-Codex-SB-ENG

For Imperial Knights - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Imperial-Knights-ENG

For Chaos Space Marines, and their Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter supplements - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Chaos-Space-Marines-Softback-ENG

And finally Daemons - https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Codex-Chaos-Daemons-EN

There are no units in the Campaign Supplements that aren't covered in these Codecies, so you're all good if you buy them all.

That is simply not true in regards to Chaos Space Marines and Daemons.

Traitor's Hate introduces the CSM Decurion equivalent and formations, the Renegade Knight, the Lord of Blood and adds squadron rules and new (copy paste from SM) psychic disciplines. I'm not even going to talk about the fact that CSM are somewhat sub-par at the moment and an army that is reliant on nearly £200 worth of books to prop itself up (Codex, IA 13, Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter, Traitor's Hate and the Bel'akor dataslate).

And Daemons - Curse of the Wulfen introduces their decurion and formations, improves and expands their psychic disciplines, adds God specific Warlord Traits and relics and also the Bloodthirster variants and Be'lakor.

This is really crappy advice saying that the 'dated' codexes are all he would need with regards to those armies.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:



That is simply not true in regards to Chaos Space Marines and Daemons.

Traitor's Hate introduces the CSM Decurion equivalent and formations, the Renegade Knight, the Lord of Blood and adds squadron rules and new (copy paste from SM) psychic disciplines. I'm not even going to talk about the fact that CSM are somewhat sub-par at the moment and an army that is reliant on nearly £200 worth of books to prop itself up (Codex, IA 13, Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter, Traitor's Hate and the Bel'akor dataslate).

And Daemons - Curse of the Wulfen introduces their decurion and formations, improves and expands their psychic disciplines, adds God specific Warlord Traits and relics and also the Bloodthirster variants and Be'lakor.

This is really crappy advice saying that the 'dated' codexes are all he would need with regards to those armies.

Nothing you've mentioned that is in those books is crucial to play, nor do they add extra units that are not present in the regular codex. The OP was asking what he needed to play; he doesn't need anything you've said to play 40K

The Daemon's codex isn't outdated either - old yes, but still the most recent edition.

 General Annoyance wrote:

General Kroll wrote:You can't play just using battlescribe. Oftentimes it doesn't go through specific special rules and isn't always correct.

If someone tried to play a game against me using battlescribe, they'd not have much luck I'm afraid, and I'm pretty easy going on this kind of thing.

KhorneontheCobb wrote:Battlescribe is nice for list building- but you'll miss a lot of special rules.

All faction specific rules will be displayed in the generated reference sheet, generally quoted verbatim. It doesn't cover stuff in the main rulebook, however.

I've used Battlescribe to great success - it also gets patched on a weekly basis if any errata are present. It has had issues in the past, but most of these have been ironed out, and personally I haven't found any errors in the writing for quite a while.

Good luck with that.

I've already found at least two rules that are missing from two of the lists I've got stored on my battlescribe app. And that's before I list the errors I've found over the last 18 months or so of using it.

Battlescribe is a great list building tool, but it is not an acceptable substitute for having the rules on hand for when a dispute arise, or when you need to clarify something to an opponent. Of course some people might be quite happy to just go with what battlescribe says. But I know for a fact, that despite it being patched weekly, that errors still pop up.

What happens when an opponent wants you to prove a certain rule is written that way in the codex and you can't show them?

Be careful using Battlescribe. I use it to list-build, but it is no substitute for the Codex and there are myriad errors in it.

Just an example of an error that has gone on since the release of the AM Codex in April 2014 (so 30 months now) is that Battlescribe still says that Lord Commissars can take Dedicated Transports, which has not been the case since the 5th Edition codex was invalidated.

Just be very very very very very very careful and surefire about what you are doing with Battlescribe; it is a useful tool, but is most certainly not error-free and omits some very important army building options, especially the 30k portion.

General Kroll wrote:

I've already found at least two rules that are missing from two of the lists I've got stored on my battlescribe app. And that's before I list the errors I've found over the last 18 months or so of using it.

I'd be interested to know what rules these are for future reference - so far everything I've crossed referenced with a codex seems legit (I use BS for Orks and Tau at the moment).

Battlescribe is a great list building tool, but it is not an acceptable substitute for having the rules on hand for when a dispute arise, or when you need to clarify something to an opponent. Of course some people might be quite happy to just go with what battlescribe says. But I know for a fact, that despite it being patched weekly, that errors still pop up.

What happens when an opponent wants you to prove a certain rule is written that way in the codex and you can't show them?

That would be a problem - I've only played with people I know who trust that I've verified whichever rules I'm using, but I can see that being an issue to other people, especially new players.

Unit1126PLL wrote:Be careful using Battlescribe. I use it to list-build, but it is no substitute for the Codex and there are myriad errors in it.

Just an example of an error that has gone on since the release of the AM Codex in April 2014 (so 30 months now) is that Battlescribe still says that Lord Commissars can take Dedicated Transports, which has not been the case since the 5th Edition codex was invalidated.

Just be very very very very very very careful and surefire about what you are doing with Battlescribe; it is a useful tool, but is most certainly not error-free and omits some very important army building options, especially the 30k portion.

Personally I would have a friend or two who can lend me a Codex or just answer the questions I have for me, so for me at least BattleScribe does its job with flying colours. At the moment the app is asking me to update my rulesets practically every time I visit it, so I would say it's more reliable than ever.

Still, I hope the OP got the answers he needed. He seems to have the Codecies he needs for his current armies anyway

I don't know if I've updated for 30K yet, making a 30K list Battle Scribe often just drops a page number to a book instead of giving all the information on Items.

 General Annoyance wrote:

General Kroll wrote:You can't play just using battlescribe. Oftentimes it doesn't go through specific special rules and isn't always correct.

If someone tried to play a game against me using battlescribe, they'd not have much luck I'm afraid, and I'm pretty easy going on this kind of thing.

KhorneontheCobb wrote:Battlescribe is nice for list building- but you'll miss a lot of special rules.

All faction specific rules will be displayed in the generated reference sheet, generally quoted verbatim. It doesn't cover stuff in the main rulebook, however.

I've used Battlescribe to great success - it also gets patched on a weekly basis if any errata are present. It has had issues in the past, but most of these have been ironed out, and personally I haven't found any errors in the writing for quite a while.

I'm not sure what to tell you. Do you play CSM? While yes, battlescribe has gotten a lot better- it is still full of a ton of mistakes in CSM.

I also play daemons, dark Angels, KDK, and Necrons. They are all have less mistakes than CSM- but there are still a few mistakes here and there.
I'm not knocking battlescribe by any means! I think it is an invaluable list building tool! I have purchased the pro version for both my I phone and my kindle tablet. I would highly recommend it to everyone. I would never recomend it as a sole source for army rules though.

 KhorneontheCobb wrote:



I'm not sure what to tell you. Do you play CSM? While yes, battlescribe has gotten a lot better- it is still full of a ton of mistakes in CSM.

I currently only use it for Orks and Tau, so no, I don't play CSM nor am I aware of errors in there.

I also play daemons, dark Angels, KDK, and Necrons. They are all have less mistakes than CSM- but there are still a few mistakes here and there.
I'm not knocking battlescribe by any means! I think it is an invaluable list building tool! I have purchased the pro version for both my I phone and my kindle tablet. I would highly recommend it to everyone. I would never recomend it as a sole source for army rules though.

I recommend it down to the experience I have of it over the last couple of years I've had the app. It's helped me avoid splashing at least £90 when I've just asked friends who play armies who may have a few mistakes in the app what the rule really says. 9 times out of 10, however, I have not encountered a rule that is written incorrectly.

I currently only use it for Orks and Tau, so no, I don't play CSM nor am I aware of errors in there.

I know that the green tide undercharges for upgraded bigshootas and rockits. by at least one point. I'd have to recheck for other builds.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:



That is simply not true in regards to Chaos Space Marines and Daemons.

Traitor's Hate introduces the CSM Decurion equivalent and formations, the Renegade Knight, the Lord of Blood and adds squadron rules and new (copy paste from SM) psychic disciplines. I'm not even going to talk about the fact that CSM are somewhat sub-par at the moment and an army that is reliant on nearly £200 worth of books to prop itself up (Codex, IA 13, Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter, Traitor's Hate and the Bel'akor dataslate).

And Daemons - Curse of the Wulfen introduces their decurion and formations, improves and expands their psychic disciplines, adds God specific Warlord Traits and relics and also the Bloodthirster variants and Be'lakor.

This is really crappy advice saying that the 'dated' codexes are all he would need with regards to those armies.

Nothing you've mentioned that is in those books is crucial to play, nor do they add extra units that are not present in the regular codex. The OP was asking what he needed to play; he doesn't need anything you've said to play 40K

The Daemon's codex isn't outdated either - old yes, but still the most recent edition.

Traitor's Hate introduces Renegade Knights and the Lord of Skulls for CSM. Those units are not present in the regular Codex.

Curse of the Wulfen (or the enhanced digital Daemon codex) introduce the 3 Bloodthirster variants, Be'lakor and the Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch - all of which are not present in the Codex you linked. Furthermore, it's not the most recent edition. It's 6th ed, same as the CSM book due to the fact it came out a mere few months after the 6th ed. Dark Angels.

Your definition of 'extra units that are not present in the regular codex' seems laughable when you seem to exclude the additional units that are not present in the regular codex. You don't move the goalposts mate. That ain't how this works.

You might find this useful. Not sure how up to date it is - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/606496.page

 DarkStarSabre wrote:


Traitor's Hate introduces Renegade Knights and the Lord of Skulls for CSM. Those units are not present in the regular Codex.

Ah, well that's embarrassing I may have forgotten about those...

Curse of the Wulfen (or the enhanced digital Daemon codex) introduce the 3 Bloodthirster variants, Be'lakor and the Exalted Flamer of Tzeentch - all of which are not present in the Codex you linked. Furthermore, it's not the most recent edition. It's 6th ed, same as the CSM book due to the fact it came out a mere few months after the 6th ed. Dark Angels.

Where's the 7th ed Daemons and DE codex then? If they don't exist, they're the most recent edition.

Your definition of 'extra units that are not present in the regular codex' seems laughable when you seem to exclude the additional units that are not present in the regular codex. You don't move the goalposts mate. That ain't how this works.

Try to be considerate of Rule no.1 in the future - I'm very much happy to admit my mistake here. Come to think of it, I'm unsure why I forgot about the Renegade Knight's recent addition. Still, zero need to call people's advice "crappy" and accuse them of moving goalposts.

Come on guys lets not make this into a witch hunt against GA for using battlescribe instead of a codex. He's given his reasons, we've given ours. He's right in that BS is a very cool tool for checking out stats and other armies, but those of us who are saying not to rely innit as a sole source of info are also spot in IMO. Grab a codex, it's the only way to make sure you have the correct rules.

To get back on topic for the op. It can be very confusing when starting to know which books contain the rules for your army. There could be supplements and campaign books, as well as random dataslates.

The clearest advice I can give is to pick up a cheap copy of the rule book from eBay (seriously they are everywhere these days) and then one of your main codex. Then build from there.

 General Kroll wrote:
Come on guys lets not make this into a witch hunt against GA for using battlescribe instead of a codex. He's given his reasons, we've given ours. He's right in that BS is a very cool tool for checking out stats and other armies, but those of us who are saying not to rely innit as a sole source of info are also spot in IMO. Grab a codex, it's the only way to make sure you have the correct rules.

To get back on topic for the op. It can be very confusing when starting to know which books contain the rules for your army. There could be supplements and campaign books, as well as random dataslates.

The clearest advice I can give is to pick up a cheap copy of the rule book from eBay (seriously they are everywhere these days) and then one of your main codex. Then build from there.

no one's calling a witch hunt, but when he's saying "ohh you can just use it instead of the codex" to a new player, it's only right to point out the error.

BrianDavion wrote:


no one's calling a witch hunt, but when he's saying "ohh you can just use it instead of the codex" to a new player, it's only right to point out the error.

I can, and have many a time; just seems like some armies have more reliable entries than others on that app.

The OP has the Codecies anyway, so it hardly matters. Pretend I was never here

Whoa, this thing really took off while I was away. I'm the OP so here is where I am:
A) I think you've all been incredibly helpful, I don't feel anyone led me astray or gave bad advice, so thank you guys.
B) I have the core codices for S.W. And D.A., as well as the official rulebook, I was really looking for clarity on supplement and I feel I got that. Any lack of clarity there is 100% my failure.
C) I wanted to know what it would take to run Chaos and...holy crap. I'll piecemeal that together while I run my D.A. And S.W. Armies.
D)

not sure how up to date it is - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/606496.page

-That is actually an amazingly cool resource, thank you!
E) I look at battlescribe as a supplement, not a core thing..it seems prettu darn handy though. I will own the official books for 'my' armies, BS is pretty rad for getting the gist of armies your enemies may play.
F) With the digital Codex I have, you basically get a battlescribe/armybuilder type program for free-I dig that!
G) The advice I got here actually got me rolling already. I found some formations I really like and now I'm ready to rock.
H) I just want to reiterate-thank you to everyone who posted, there weren't any posts that weren't helpful and well-intended.