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if they are not being sneaking, than servo-skull won't stop them from setting up an ambush.

Cult ambush is not infiltrate. Even if we concede the point and agree that it is a form of infiltration, it still is not standard infiltration from WH40K the rules, but some other form of infiltration plus, meaning it is a specific rule and servo skulls doesn't apply because it only overides normal infiltration and scout.

Lets also tackle the argument made several times ITT that you first infiltrate, then cult ambush. That would STILL prove cult ambush the victor and only lead to two wasted deployment and here is why. Opponent sets up servo skulls, genestealer cult player infiltrates all his units outside the 12" denial zones. GSC player now rolls on the Cult Ambush table and redeploys each unit, now using that specific rule which overrides the servo skulls and can now deploy well inside the skulls previously denied area. You have now applied the order of operations correctly, and also wasted another 30 minutes of time deploying an additional time. That is what I meant earlier ITT when I said infiltration was only a prerequisite to the advanced rule, because it is pedantic to actually force your GSC opponent into infiltrating before he would redeploy using Cult Ambush.

Charistoph wrote:

Davor wrote:
Good point where does Ambush say it can place units during the infiltrating phase? If I am reading other peoples replies, I am almost thinking if we go by their way we don't even place units in the infiltrating phase but during the movement phase almost like doing a deep strike. So that would mean Ambushes are done after infiltrators and if your opponent has infiltrating units, they are deployed first before ambushes are done.

Right here: "Units with this special rule that Infiltrate, or arrive from Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, can choose to roll on the cult ambush table, opposite, instead of deploying or arriving from reserves normally.

To infiltrate, you must be deploying using the Infiltrate Special Rule. "Deploying" is placing a unit on the table, as can be seen by its use in Deep Strike and the many Outflanking rules.

I know that, I am having an open mind and trying to see my opponents view of their opinion. In other words I am not saying he is wrong yet, but going with it for an answer. I am still in the opinion it's an infiltrate move just like you have said, but instead of trying to be the "your are wrong, I am correct" mentality most of the time on the internet, I am trying to see what other people view it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Cult ambush is not infiltrate. Even if we concede the point and agree that it is a form of infiltration, it still is not standard infiltration from WH40K the rules, but some other form of infiltration plus, meaning it is a specific rule and servo skulls doesn't apply because it only overides normal infiltration and scout.

It is. So far you are saying it's not without giving facts. Please give the facts to back the statement up.

Lets also tackle the argument made several times ITT that you first infiltrate, then cult ambush. That would STILL prove cult ambush the victor and only lead to two wasted deployment and here is why. Opponent sets up servo skulls, genestealer cult player infiltrates all his units outside the 12" denial zones. GSC player now rolls on the Cult Ambush table and redeploys each unit, now using that specific rule which overrides the servo skulls and can now deploy well inside the skulls previously denied area. You have now applied the order of operations correctly, and also wasted another 30 minutes of time deploying an additional time. That is what I meant earlier ITT when I said infiltration was only a prerequisite to the advanced rule, because it is pedantic to actually force your GSC opponent into infiltrating before he would redeploy using Cult Ambush.

Let's not tackle the ITT arguments. Not everyone goes by them and we are talking GW rules, not house rules.

I have posted the facts repeatedly. I am not going to fall into a circular argument, hit filter thread or read the past three pages. The rule uses the crucial word instead. Besides you just quote chopped out the second point I made and suggested it somehow is not valid to the discussion at hand. Please explain how it is possible to have a rules discussion if you are not going to acknowledge the points brought up ITT? I don't think you understand how YMDC works.

Now kindly address the actual point I made in that paragraph. Cult Ambush exists as it's own separate rule, that isn't actually up for debate here. So yet again, I will repeat, according to the interpretation that infiltration is required first and thus subject to limitation via servo skulls, it's utterly moot since you would infiltrate outside 12" then Cult Ambush potentially closer based on the order of operations. Servo skulls lack the specificity to affect CA which triggers off infiltration, then replaces it by using the language INSTEAD.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I have posted the facts repeatedly. I am not going to fall into a circular argument, hit filter thread or read the past three pages. The rule uses the crucial word instead. Besides you just quote chopped out the second point I made and suggested it somehow is not valid to the discussion at hand. Please explain how it is possible to have a rules discussion if you are not going to acknowledge the points brought up ITT? I don't think you understand how YMDC works.

Now kindly address the actual point I made in that paragraph. Cult Ambush exists as it's own separate rule, that isn't actually up for debate here. So yet again, I will repeat, according to the interpretation that infiltration is required first and thus subject to limitation via servo skulls, it's utterly moot since you would infiltrate outside 12" then Cult Ambush potentially closer based on the order of operations. Servo skulls lack the specificity to affect CA which triggers off infiltration, then replaces it by using the language INSTEAD.

Actually there are parts up to debate. It says units that infiltrate or are in reserve can roll on the table instead of deploying or coming in from reserve normally. It can mean that it's just where they come on is changed, but they are still infiltrating (since it said units that are infiltrating). Using your logic, you would have to conclude that likewise, units coming in from reserves aren't coming in from reserves when they roll on the table. yet, they have been in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves and are clearly coming in from Reserves (or ongoing reserves), it's just that they're rolling on the table to determine where. If those are still coming in from Reserves, then why are the units that were stated by the CA rule to be infiltrating not being treated as infiltrating. Seems like a double standard.

What we should be doing is looking at the intention of the servo-skull rule.

It prevents Infiltrators from setting up within 12" of it. Infiltrators normally cannot set-up within 12" of enemy units. So a servo-skull is basically a marker that represents an enemy unit for purposes of Infiltration.

Cult Ambush changes the distance you need to be from an enemy unit. Therefore I would treat it as, you cannot set up within 6" of a servo-skull on a result of 3-5, or within 3" of a servo-skull on a result of 6.

This house-rule will be used in my store to avoid arguments.

 CryonicCenobyte wrote:
What we should be doing is looking at the intention of the servo-skull rule.

It prevents Infiltrators from setting up within 12" of it. Infiltrators normally cannot set-up within 12" of enemy units. So a servo-skull is basically a marker that represents an enemy unit for purposes of Infiltration.

Cult Ambush changes the distance you need to be from an enemy unit. Therefore I would treat it as, you cannot set up within 6" of a servo-skull on a result of 3-5, or within 3" of a servo-skull on a result of 6.

This house-rule will be used in my store to avoid arguments.

I like this as a very good middle ground and will go forward with this until we get a FAQ.

I honestly don't think Cult ambush is effected by survo skulls at all but considering the arguments on both sides I like what CryonicCenobyte proposes.

So just to be clear the house rule changes the servo skulls rule to "Servo Skulls count as a unit in your army for the purposes of deployment."

doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I have posted the facts repeatedly. I am not going to fall into a circular argument, hit filter thread or read the past three pages. The rule uses the crucial word instead. Besides you just quote chopped out the second point I made and suggested it somehow is not valid to the discussion at hand. Please explain how it is possible to have a rules discussion if you are not going to acknowledge the points brought up ITT? I don't think you understand how YMDC works.

Now kindly address the actual point I made in that paragraph. Cult Ambush exists as it's own separate rule, that isn't actually up for debate here. So yet again, I will repeat, according to the interpretation that infiltration is required first and thus subject to limitation via servo skulls, it's utterly moot since you would infiltrate outside 12" then Cult Ambush potentially closer based on the order of operations. Servo skulls lack the specificity to affect CA which triggers off infiltration, then replaces it by using the language INSTEAD.

Actually there are parts up to debate. It says units that infiltrate or are in reserve can roll on the table instead of deploying or coming in from reserve normally. It can mean that it's just where they come on is changed, but they are still infiltrating (since it said units that are infiltrating). Using your logic, you would have to conclude that likewise, units coming in from reserves aren't coming in from reserves when they roll on the table. yet, they have been in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves and are clearly coming in from Reserves (or ongoing reserves), it's just that they're rolling on the table to determine where. If those are still coming in from Reserves, then why are the units that were stated by the CA rule to be infiltrating not being treated as infiltrating. Seems like a double standard.

Thank you very well said. I wish I could write as well as you did here.

CryonicCenobyte wrote:What we should be doing is looking at the intention of the servo-skull rule.

It prevents Infiltrators from setting up within 12" of it. Infiltrators normally cannot set-up within 12" of enemy units. So a servo-skull is basically a marker that represents an enemy unit for purposes of Infiltration.

Cult Ambush changes the distance you need to be from an enemy unit. Therefore I would treat it as, you cannot set up within 6" of a servo-skull on a result of 3-5, or within 3" of a servo-skull on a result of 6.

This house-rule will be used in my store to avoid arguments.

Good point. Not sure if correct or not, but good point non the less. I like it.

 CryonicCenobyte wrote:
What we should be doing is looking at the intention of the servo-skull rule.

It prevents Infiltrators from setting up within 12" of it. Infiltrators normally cannot set-up within 12" of enemy units. So a servo-skull is basically a marker that represents an enemy unit for purposes of Infiltration.

Cult Ambush changes the distance you need to be from an enemy unit. Therefore I would treat it as, you cannot set up within 6" of a servo-skull on a result of 3-5, or within 3" of a servo-skull on a result of 6.

This house-rule will be used in my store to avoid arguments.

The problem is that Servo-Skulls may state the same standards as being used by Infiltrate, but it doesn't specifically state to use Infiltrate's standards. In other words, they aren't just acting as an enemy unit marker for the purposes of infiltration, they actually represent something more. If 8th Edition or an errata came out tomorrow and an Infiltrate's range from enemy models were reduced to 6", Servo-Skulls would still prevent to 12".

So, it still comes down to codex v codex. The base rules give no instruction on this without resorting to Sequencing (which does not actually apply). Draft FAQs state that they cancel each other out or give primacy to which ever codex the question lies under. As normal for GW writing, they are inconsistent and do little to properly resolve these considerations.

 Charistoph wrote:

 CryonicCenobyte wrote:
What we should be doing is looking at the intention of the servo-skull rule.

It prevents Infiltrators from setting up within 12" of it. Infiltrators normally cannot set-up within 12" of enemy units. So a servo-skull is basically a marker that represents an enemy unit for purposes of Infiltration.

Cult Ambush changes the distance you need to be from an enemy unit. Therefore I would treat it as, you cannot set up within 6" of a servo-skull on a result of 3-5, or within 3" of a servo-skull on a result of 6.

This house-rule will be used in my store to avoid arguments.

The problem is that Servo-Skulls may state the same standards as being used by Infiltrate, but it doesn't specifically state to use Infiltrate's standards. In other words, they aren't just acting as an enemy unit marker for the purposes of infiltration, they actually represent something more. If 8th Edition or an errata came out tomorrow and an Infiltrate's range from enemy models were reduced to 6", Servo-Skulls would still prevent to 12".

By RAW, yes, but that would clearly be a mistake. Any reasonable person will always take RAI over RAW unless they don't understand the definition of the word "intended".

 CryonicCenobyte wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 CryonicCenobyte wrote:
What we should be doing is looking at the intention of the servo-skull rule.

It prevents Infiltrators from setting up within 12" of it. Infiltrators normally cannot set-up within 12" of enemy units. So a servo-skull is basically a marker that represents an enemy unit for purposes of Infiltration.

Cult Ambush changes the distance you need to be from an enemy unit. Therefore I would treat it as, you cannot set up within 6" of a servo-skull on a result of 3-5, or within 3" of a servo-skull on a result of 6.

This house-rule will be used in my store to avoid arguments.

The problem is that Servo-Skulls may state the same standards as being used by Infiltrate, but it doesn't specifically state to use Infiltrate's standards. In other words, they aren't just acting as an enemy unit marker for the purposes of infiltration, they actually represent something more. If 8th Edition or an errata came out tomorrow and an Infiltrate's range from enemy models were reduced to 6", Servo-Skulls would still prevent to 12".

By RAW, yes, but that would clearly be a mistake. Any reasonable person will always take RAI over RAW unless they don't understand the definition of the word "intended".

All we can fall back on is RAW, barring a finalization of the Draft FAQ. We can only analyze and assume intent. Assumptions are made differently by different people until something concrete occurs. At this point, I think we're going around in circles with this thread.

There were things that could be placed by rules that use modifications on infiltration before GSC, like callidus assassins. They were also limited to 12" not some modified other result.

So my gaming group have had a chat about how this works, it's not perfect but this is how we are going to play it locally until we find a better way or some clarification from GW or an appropriate third party.

The fluff is that infiltrators come on before deployment and get to a good position.
The fluff is that ambushers were there waiting long before the battle.
The fluff is that scouts get to reposition before a battle.

The RaW are pretty clear, you first deploy using infiltrate, reserves, ongoing reserves and then choose to change deployment type to cult ambush (a separate rule).

We will deploy as per rules, when we get to infiltrators we will roll off and take it in turns until all units have infiltrated. Servo-scullz affect infiltrate. We do this because you can't place a unit within 12" of enemy models. You can force their deployment to certain areas. (We will stop once one player can't deploy anymore, if someone has decided that all the rest of the units will cult ambush. But if some units are actually infiltrating they will be deployed at this time.)

Next we chose to cult ambush (a separate rule) and do as these rules tell us to, we reposition these units on the board. Servo-scullz don't affect ambushing. If the armys are both using cult ambush, we will use the rules from infiltrating to decide, eg roll off and take it in turns. ( There is no rule for this, it is our house rule. This needs an FAQ. )

Next units can scout if they have it. Servo-scullz affect scout, so if a scout sentinel moves and its with scout rule it can't end it's move within 12" of a servo-scull. This may mean that it can't move in the scout phase as it is already with 12" due to ambush.

This fits fluff and RaW. As far as our group can agree. This is not definative but is what we will do for now.

For reserves and ongoing reserves we will do the same thing, place them using the first rule (the enemy has a chance to block deplayment and prevent them coming onto the board thus preventing them entering) then choose to cult ambush roll on the table, and perform the appropriate action. ( We can chose this even if models can't be placed as this is a separate rule, they have fulfilled their requirements under RAW. )

Once we have rolled on the cult ambush table, and the models can't be placed they are put into ongoing reserves as per rules for reserves. ( There are no rule for this, this is a house rule and needs an FAQ. )

If we can skip a deployment for a squad we will to speed things up, but if that deployment may be affected but some rule in the sequence it can't be skipped. Both players must agree at the time to skip a squad deployment .

This probably won't help anyone and many people will disagree, but it is what we are doing for the forseeble future.

That doesn't fit the RAW or fluff at all, but anyone can play by house rules.

 doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I have posted the facts repeatedly. I am not going to fall into a circular argument, hit filter thread or read the past three pages. The rule uses the crucial word instead. Besides you just quote chopped out the second point I made and suggested it somehow is not valid to the discussion at hand. Please explain how it is possible to have a rules discussion if you are not going to acknowledge the points brought up ITT? I don't think you understand how YMDC works.

Now kindly address the actual point I made in that paragraph. Cult Ambush exists as it's own separate rule, that isn't actually up for debate here. So yet again, I will repeat, according to the interpretation that infiltration is required first and thus subject to limitation via servo skulls, it's utterly moot since you would infiltrate outside 12" then Cult Ambush potentially closer based on the order of operations. Servo skulls lack the specificity to affect CA which triggers off infiltration, then replaces it by using the language INSTEAD.

Actually there are parts up to debate. It says units that infiltrate or are in reserve can roll on the table instead of deploying or coming in from reserve normally. It can mean that it's just where they come on is changed, but they are still infiltrating (since it said units that are infiltrating). Using your logic, you would have to conclude that likewise, units coming in from reserves aren't coming in from reserves when they roll on the table. yet, they have been in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves and are clearly coming in from Reserves (or ongoing reserves), it's just that they're rolling on the table to determine where. If those are still coming in from Reserves, then why are the units that were stated by the CA rule to be infiltrating not being treated as infiltrating. Seems like a double standard.

It really isn't. Your claim doesn't change anything. You infiltrate, then replace that deployment with cult ambush or you hold them in reserve, I roll to see if they are available to enter the game per normal but can choose instead to Cult Ambush. There is absolutely no double standard. In either case your given permission to replace the deployment with a result generated from the CA table.

What your failing to reconcile is that entering from reserve or ongoing reserves just like infiltration is a form of deployment. CA gives us permission to deploy alternatively rather then normally.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I have posted the facts repeatedly. I am not going to fall into a circular argument, hit filter thread or read the past three pages. The rule uses the crucial word instead. Besides you just quote chopped out the second point I made and suggested it somehow is not valid to the discussion at hand. Please explain how it is possible to have a rules discussion if you are not going to acknowledge the points brought up ITT? I don't think you understand how YMDC works.

Now kindly address the actual point I made in that paragraph. Cult Ambush exists as it's own separate rule, that isn't actually up for debate here. So yet again, I will repeat, according to the interpretation that infiltration is required first and thus subject to limitation via servo skulls, it's utterly moot since you would infiltrate outside 12" then Cult Ambush potentially closer based on the order of operations. Servo skulls lack the specificity to affect CA which triggers off infiltration, then replaces it by using the language INSTEAD.

Actually there are parts up to debate. It says units that infiltrate or are in reserve can roll on the table instead of deploying or coming in from reserve normally. It can mean that it's just where they come on is changed, but they are still infiltrating (since it said units that are infiltrating). Using your logic, you would have to conclude that likewise, units coming in from reserves aren't coming in from reserves when they roll on the table. yet, they have been in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves and are clearly coming in from Reserves (or ongoing reserves), it's just that they're rolling on the table to determine where. If those are still coming in from Reserves, then why are the units that were stated by the CA rule to be infiltrating not being treated as infiltrating. Seems like a double standard.

It really isn't. Your claim doesn't change anything. You infiltrate, then replace that deployment with cult ambush or you hold them in reserve, I roll to see if they are available to enter the game per normal but can choose instead to Cult Ambush. There is absolutely no double standard. In either case your given permission to replace the deployment with a result generated from the CA table.

What your failing to reconcile is that entering from reserve or ongoing reserves just like infiltration is a form of deployment. CA gives us permission to deploy alternatively rather then normally.

I think you should re-read the cult ambush rules.

It clearly states you roll on the ambush table instead of arriving from reserves or deploying normally. If you deploy an unit by infiltrating, it cannot cult ambush the same turn as it is already deployed and cult ambush tells you to do it instead of deploying by infiltrate or reserves. If you have to do something instead you cannot do both things, they are not the same.

Further it states the cult ambush result is used instead of deploying or arriving by reserves normally. Ie they are a modification to those rules.

You pick to put units in reserve, or set aside as infiltrators.

For each unit you opt to deploy it as normal reserves, normal infiltrate, or as cult ambush when its time for the unit to deploy from deepstrike or during the infiltrate step.

it further goes onto state that cult ambushings units move onto the table as specified for other reserves, unless they table specifies something else.

Cult ambush is just a modification to infiltrate/reserves and count as using those with the modifications listed for cult ambush.

the result of '6'on the cult ambush d6 roll even again clarifies that cult ambush is reserves and infiltrate, you just get some modified rules because you are ambushing. It is not a separate totally different thing by the RAW or RAI.

"unlike other units that arrive from reserves or infiltrating, the ambushing unit can charge the turn it arrives or the first turn" - cult ambush is deploying/arriving from reserves or infiltration.

RAW and RAI servo skulls prevent cult ambush unless a faq specifies otherwise, just as it limits other infiltrators who can setup within 12" (callidus)

 Red Corsair wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
I have posted the facts repeatedly. I am not going to fall into a circular argument, hit filter thread or read the past three pages. The rule uses the crucial word instead. Besides you just quote chopped out the second point I made and suggested it somehow is not valid to the discussion at hand. Please explain how it is possible to have a rules discussion if you are not going to acknowledge the points brought up ITT? I don't think you understand how YMDC works.

Now kindly address the actual point I made in that paragraph. Cult Ambush exists as it's own separate rule, that isn't actually up for debate here. So yet again, I will repeat, according to the interpretation that infiltration is required first and thus subject to limitation via servo skulls, it's utterly moot since you would infiltrate outside 12" then Cult Ambush potentially closer based on the order of operations. Servo skulls lack the specificity to affect CA which triggers off infiltration, then replaces it by using the language INSTEAD.

Actually there are parts up to debate. It says units that infiltrate or are in reserve can roll on the table instead of deploying or coming in from reserve normally. It can mean that it's just where they come on is changed, but they are still infiltrating (since it said units that are infiltrating). Using your logic, you would have to conclude that likewise, units coming in from reserves aren't coming in from reserves when they roll on the table. yet, they have been in Reserves or Ongoing Reserves and are clearly coming in from Reserves (or ongoing reserves), it's just that they're rolling on the table to determine where. If those are still coming in from Reserves, then why are the units that were stated by the CA rule to be infiltrating not being treated as infiltrating. Seems like a double standard.

It really isn't. Your claim doesn't change anything. You infiltrate, then replace that deployment with cult ambush or you hold them in reserve, I roll to see if they are available to enter the game per normal but can choose instead to Cult Ambush. There is absolutely no double standard. In either case your given permission to replace the deployment with a result generated from the CA table.

What your failing to reconcile is that entering from reserve or ongoing reserves just like infiltration is a form of deployment. CA gives us permission to deploy alternatively rather then normally.

So, there are units in Reserves. It's time for them to come on to the table (you've rolled to determine that they may come out of Reserves). Your claim is that they're not coming out of Reserves because they're rolling on the Cult Ambush table instead of coming out of Reserves normally? Because, that's what you're saying if you're treating infiltrate the way you are. That is indeed a double standard, and is something that you have to reconcile. They still come out of Reserves even if you roll on the table, which shows that you are still with the original deployment method, only that the CA table alters where they are deployed on the table (with the possibility of some other benefits during that turn).

if you use the ruling cult ambush is infiltration then all cultists have shroud in the Cult Insurrection formation. If you look at Purestrain Genstealers they have both cult ambush and infiltration. They are obviously separate and different. cult ambush is not infiltration.

Splatacus wrote:
if you use the ruling cult ambush is infiltration then all cultists have shroud in the Cult Insurrection formation. If you look at Purestrain Genstealers they have both cult ambush and infiltration. They are obviously separate and different. cult ambush is not infiltration.

No. Deploying via infiltration to use cult ambush in deployment is infiltrate. The rule Cult ambush can also be used by starting the game in reserves or when returning from ongoing reserves (your probably there from Return to Shadows). CA does not grant you infiltrate. But you do need infiltrate to deploy with CA.

 Lance845 wrote:

Splatacus wrote:
if you use the ruling cult ambush is infiltration then all cultists have shroud in the Cult Insurrection formation. If you look at Purestrain Genstealers they have both cult ambush and infiltration. They are obviously separate and different. cult ambush is not infiltration.

No. Deploying via infiltration to use cult ambush in deployment is infiltrate. The rule Cult ambush can also be used by starting the game in reserves or when returning from ongoing reserves (your probably there from Return to Shadows). CA does not grant you infiltrate. But you do need infiltrate to deploy with CA.

So acolyte hybrids can't cult ambush because they don't have infiltrate? but purestrain genestealers can because they have both.

If they don't have infiltrate from some source they can't deploy with cult ambush the first turn. You can deploy them normally and return to the shadows with them turn one then cult ambush from ongoing reserves, or you can lace them in reserves and when they arrive use cult ambush. If they do not have infiltrate you can't deploy them with cult ambush at the game start.

Which is one of the reasons the detachment and Formations that grant infiltrate is a big deal.

Splatacus wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

Splatacus wrote:
if you use the ruling cult ambush is infiltration then all cultists have shroud in the Cult Insurrection formation. If you look at Purestrain Genstealers they have both cult ambush and infiltration. They are obviously separate and different. cult ambush is not infiltration.

No. Deploying via infiltration to use cult ambush in deployment is infiltrate. The rule Cult ambush can also be used by starting the game in reserves or when returning from ongoing reserves (your probably there from Return to Shadows). CA does not grant you infiltrate. But you do need infiltrate to deploy with CA.

So acolyte hybrids can't cult ambush because they don't have infiltrate? but purestrain genestealers can because they have both.

By default, on deployment, yes. If you take them in their decurion it gives everyone infiltrate so everyone can deploy with CA. But without Infiltrate you either deploy normally or start the game in reserves.

Do servo skulls stop cult ambush if you are coming on from reserves?

Splatacus wrote:
Do servo skulls stop cult ambush if you are coming on from reserves?

Do they stop Infiltrators from Outflanking?

No, so servo skulls shouldn't stop someone from setting up with cult ambush.

Splatacus wrote:
No, so servo skulls shouldn't stop someone from setting up with cult ambush.

Just so I am clear.

We explain that you need infiltrate to deploy with CA but don't need it if you come in from reserves/ongoing reserves in the middle of the game.

You ask if servo skulls work against CA in the middle of the game.

Based on that answer you assume servo skulls will work against deploying via infiltrate to use CA at the beginning of the game?

 Lance845 wrote:
We explain that you need infiltrate to deploy with CA but don't need it if you come in from reserves/ongoing reserves in the middle of the game.

You ask if servo skulls work against CA in the middle of the game.

Based on that answer you assume servo skulls will work against deploying via infiltrate to use CA at the beginning of the game?

Arriving from Reserves of any kind is deploying just as much as Infiltrating.

However, Servo-Skulls does not specifically state anything about "deploying", it refers to Infiltrator's being "set up" and Scouts using "their pre-game move". All of these terms are used as part of Deployment alone. Also, the Servo-Skulls addresses "infiltrators", not "units that are infiltrating". The term "infiltrators" is used when granting Outflank to these units (where you cannot actually infiltrate), and if you follow the Draft FAQ, is also used to identify as a possessor of the rule for ICs joining a unit even in Reserves.

That's part of what makes this so troublesome. Yes, CA would technically be affected if not for one troublesome fact, that both the CA and Servo-skull are codex-level rules, which the rulebook gives primacy to both at the same time. At which point, roll it off to see which was the more "successful" for this match.

The point is that infiltration and cult ambush are different abilities. just like infiltration and outflank are different. you have to have infiltrate to outflank and servo skulls don't effect that. So why would needing infiltrate to cult ambush allow servo skulls to block cult ambush.

Servo skulls don't stop cult ambush when coming from reserve later in the game. Why would they stop it at the start of the game.

Servo skulls specifically say what they can stop (infiltrate and scout move) if it was intended to stop anything that required infiltrate as a prerequisite it would be worded to include them or have a broader definition.

Splatacus wrote:
The point is that infiltration and cult ambush are different abilities. just like infiltration and outflank are different. you have to have infiltrate to outflank and servo skulls don't effect that. So why would needing infiltrate to cult ambush allow servo skulls to block cult ambush.

Servo skulls don't stop cult ambush when coming from reserve later in the game. Why would they stop it at the start of the game.

Servo skulls specifically say what they can stop (infiltrate and scout move) if it was intended to stop anything that required infiltrate as a prerequisite it would be worded to include them or have a broader definition.

See what Charistoph said about Infiltrators (as opposed to units that infiltrate) As an elaboration on what he said,, you also have the infiltrate rule saying "If both sides have Infiltrators" (dealing with the players rolling off). This would cover any unit with infiltrate. According to Infiltrate rules, you would not be able to deploy intiltrators until after all non-infiltrator units have been deployed. These units would still be infiltrators when it comes time to deploy them, whether by standard infiltrate, by rolling on the Cult Ambush table, or even just by sticking them in their side's normal deployment zone as if they weren't trying to infiltrate. Since they're infiltrators no matter which method they're coming on, they would trigger the servo skull, so would be subject to the servo-skull rule.