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I know I'm the champion of negativity about BA on here, but I've been thinking about Angel's Blade a lot. Here are some musings for other BA loyalists.

1) GW clearly intends BA to use red thirst, not obj sec. While CAD + formation is a viable strategy still, every other strategy has to be built around red thrist.

2) Given 1, is it time to rethink bare bones tac squads? In the Angel's blade formation, a vet sarge with a power sword, while costly, can potentially swing 4 times on the charge, S5 , init 5, AP3, rerolling misses. Obviously 2+ needs to be avoid, but other meqs crumble quickly against this onslaught. The whole counter argument about being challenged out has become a fairly rare occurance, becuase everyone is going minimalist and gearing towards shooting.

3) Lucifer task force: Does fast make the Land Raider viable? It doesn't fix the immobilization, but you will likely have a techmarine on board. It doesn't fix the suceptibility to D or melta or haywire, either. But it does really address the schizophrenic nature of the vehicle itself. Plus, it can scout for optimal shooting or forego that for turn 1 assault. Extra 6" if its in the lost brotherhood. Plus, scouting flamestorm cannons are back! Post grenade nerf and with all the jink saves, this is actually better than ever

Feel free to add on.

I'm with ya on the Lucifer Task Force. Trying to figure out the best list to plug it into. Maybe the Death Company detachment, as the Redeemers and flamestorm baals would move 6" closer from the jump.

Also, the Dreadnought formation is surprisingly appealing to me. 5 rifleman dreads (twin auto-cannons) getting to shoot twice on turn 1 (or 2 if the enemy is playing cheeky) drops a lot of long range S7 shots (though 600pts doesn't feel like a bargain). Dreadnoughts are pretty terrible...but long ranged dakka dreads that hide in ruins have a chance to be more effective than ones that are lumbering around, trying to smash the enemy to bits in close combat but ultimately being unable to catch said units.

I don't know. I played the demi company once already and a heavy flamer/assault cannon reguar dread in a pod did quite well. The biggest thing I miss is the magan grapple.

Orbital intervention force is pretty straight forward like Golden host but they are fluffy, expensive but can cause havoc when placed right. I like archangels strike force too even with the very very high requirements.

SM gets grav cannons to tacticals and relentless when podding with devastators.. New devastator dataslate is more like an middle finger at you. But like Martel says red thirst is the name of the game. Dunno if heavy flamer is a really better unique upgrade for tacticals rather than possibility to field a grav cannon. Atleast we are forced to play diffrently.

No, heavy flamer is not better. But we can spend the points on choppy stuff maybe.

Grav-cannons belong in units that are going to stand and shoot. Martel's tacticals will be moving a lot, making the heavy flamer a better choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you're going to take one at all.

I'm just not seeing anything for pure BA at 1850 in the book. Up at like 3k, the strike forces start to look really neat because you can actually fit in multiple formations while also kitting dudes out so they can hunt certain targets, but at tourney points level, just doing core + aux + one neat thing is like all you can do.

For plugging in to ally forces, I'm thinking of running double UM skyhammer with 3 duos of grav cannons, vet asm sarges with fists, and then the Dante sanguinary formation with 3 groups each with a fist in an itc event coming up. I feel like the general mayhem of double skyhammer will make a good situation for the SG to jump into.

I'm thinking the lucifer force plus CAD to load up the LR's may be a thing, alternatively some orbital assault termies loaded into FA pods (still considered DS reserve) could be nice. I'm unsure how the pod rules and the "these termie squads arrive at the same time" rules interact. I guess the formation rule would get ignored since you wouldn't roll for reserve in the first place. \o.o/

I've had a game with charge-termies once again and they were good. This time vs FW heavy CSM. Killed a warlord, smashed some sicarans and locked the opponent in his deployment zone. This time i ran grav bikes but they actually did more damage to my own list thanks to sorcabal special "go shoot yourself" thing. So, all in all, i'm pretty happy with my meganobz termies, of course termies.

They're gona face the new genestealer cult soon.

The one thing I find super annoying is that you can't put a priest in a bunch of the units without screwing up formation rules, apparently.

Chapter Ancients

Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons


ARCHANGEL'S DEMI-COMPANY

Terminator Captain
Furioso Dreadnought w/ frag cannon and Drop Pod
Furioso Dreadnought w/ frag cannon and Drop Pod
5 Assault Terminators w/ THSS
5 Sternguard Veterans w/ 2 Combi-meltas and Drop Pod
5 Sternguard Veterans w/ 2 Combi-meltas and Drop Pod
5 Sternguard Veterans and Drop Pod
5 Sternguard Veterans and Drop Pod

AUXILARY

Land Speeder /w 2 Heavy Bolters

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This is a list I made last night. A bit spammy, but I like it's overall ability to put shots where I want them from the get go. Potential 32 S7 shots on turn 1 from the autocannon dreadnoughts alone.

Not 100% sold on the Assault Terminators...

I'd also like to add the 5th Dreadnought back into the Chapter Ancients formation (took it out after I realized I needed an Auxilary choice)

As much as I like it, I'm almost 100% certain it doesn't have enough alpha strike potential to do the necessary damage to make up for it's low model count. Opponents able to mount an effective Beta-strike would totally own this list.

We're doing a bit more 2K and 2.5K lately.

The lost brotherhood (DCSF + 10th CS + LATF) * 1850p*

Death company chaplain
5man death company + jump packs + power fist

Death company chaplain
5man death company + jump packs + power fist

Techmarine
10man death company + 2x power fist
Land raider redeemer

Death company dreadnought + blood talons
stormraven gunship

5man scout squad + CCW+BP + melta bombs

5man scout squad + CCW+BP + melta bombs

5man scout squad + 5x sniper rifles

Baal predator + flamestorm cannon

Predator

Predator

This is the best I can think of in fluffyness with only Angel's blade formations when speaking competetiveness. But the big question is that is there really point to add all this with cheap versions of tanks.

I've only played one game with the new formations, my list :

CAD:
cptn:bike,SS,art armor,valours edge
10 tac: flamer,heavy flamer,combiflamer -rhino
10 tac: flamer,heavy flamer,combiflamer,meltabombs -dpod

golden host:
8 sang:c.banner,3fist,1axe,1inferno pistol
6 sang:c.banner,2fist,1axe
dante

Chapter Ancients:
2 Furioso:frag cannon,heavy flamer -dpod
dread:TLLascannon,TLauto cannon

With this list everything starts in reserve besides the rhino,dread, and captain on a bike. Turn 1 both sang guards and furiosos drop down with a double tap and charge on DS. The marines are combat squadded for 6 Obj Secured units, the bike captain holds objectives if need be then joins a Guard squad for fun times.

I ended up vsing a necron decurion with the 2 annihilation barges/doomsday ark formation and a monolith

I went first, tried the golden host formation and both groups failed their charges due to the DS scatter then charging through terrain. the normal dread manged to kill a barge with his double tap and the furiosos only managed to fry 8 warrior with their double tap.. (necrons won it in turn 6 by killing the normal dread that was on an objective and scoring 4 points with cards, then the game ended, leaving me 3 points down)

I need to play more games with this list but I'm liking the concept so far, will be nice to roll a better alpha strike, and land a charge but gak happens, even with the terrible rolls I was able to apply serious pressure all game and it was never a lost cause. After the failed alpha strike I was able to hold my own and clear the board of a necron decurion army (only thing he had left at the end was the doomsday ark, 5 immortals, and a nightscythe)

 Dioxalyn wrote:
I've only played one game with the new formations, my list :

CAD:
cptn:bike,SS,art armor,valours edge
10 tac: flamer,heavy flamer,combiflamer -rhino
10 tac: flamer,heavy flamer,combiflamer,meltabombs -dpod

golden host:
8 sang:c.banner,3fist,1axe,1inferno pistol
6 sang:c.banner,2fist,1axe
dante

Chapter Ancients:
2 Furioso:frag cannon,heavy flamer -dpod
dread:TLLascannon,TLauto cannon

With this list everything starts in reserve besides the rhino,dread, and captain on a bike. Turn 1 both sang guards and furiosos drop down with a double tap and charge on DS. The marines are combat squadded for 6 Obj Secured units, the bike captain holds objectives if need be then joins a Guard squad for fun times.

I ended up vsing a necron decurion with the 2 annihilation barges/doomsday ark formation and a monolith

I went first, tried the golden host formation and both groups failed their charges due to the DS scatter then charging through terrain. the normal dread manged to kill a barge with his double tap and the furiosos only managed to fry 8 warrior with their double tap.. (necrons won it in turn 6 by killing the normal dread that was on an objective and scoring 4 points with cards, then the game ended, leaving me 3 points down)

I need to play more games with this list but I'm liking the concept so far, will be nice to roll a better alpha strike, and land a charge but gak happens, even with the terrible rolls I was able to apply serious pressure all game and it was never a lost cause. After the failed alpha strike I was able to hold my own and clear the board of a necron decurion army (only thing he had left at the end was the doomsday ark, 5 immortals, and a nightscythe)

Are you allowed to take the chapter banner twice?

Hmm, how can sanguinary guard deepstrike in T1? Golden host rule states T2 or later?

 koooaei wrote:
I've had a game with charge-termies once again and they were good. This time vs FW heavy CSM. Killed a warlord, smashed some sicarans and locked the opponent in his deployment zone. This time i ran grav bikes but they actually did more damage to my own list thanks to sorcabal special "go shoot yourself" thing. So, all in all, i'm pretty happy with my meganobz termies, of course termies.

They're gona face the new genestealer cult soon.

Bunting CSM isn't exactly an accomplishment though. I'm also surprised to hear that Sicarans were being used; I hadn't seen them since maybe a third of the way through 7th.

One game so far using the Lucifier formation with 3 Baal Preds with Flamestorm cannons and a Land Raider Redeemer. Seriously wow, this will make the other guy poop his pants if he doesn't have his infantry in vehicles. They can get across the board so fast. The Land Raider was my MVP, being fast makes it so much better.

The Baal Predator with a Flamestorm could be a great counter to Scatterbikes, but it would be bad against Spiders...

Agreed, but we have some good counters against the Spiders....Orbital Intervention, Golden host, or Death Company with the detachment on certain setups.

Also, not sure if this has been shared and it is only for those that are okay with allies, but this article has some interesting combinations as well:

https://greysplinter.wordpress.com/2016/09/22/angels-in-black-blitzkrieg-death-company-ravenwing/

Lucifer task force was the one that caught my eye before I even saw the book, when the leaks came out.that looks like an obvious winner. Chapter aincents seems pretty cool too. 6 templates per dread? Yes please.

Oddly enough Martel I was thinking the same thing about the red thirst yesterday. Combined with the chaplains ability it makes DC a much nastier unit, lightening claws have a place again and tac squads can do work in CC (in theory).

Once I finish converting my Preds I'll give it a whirl. The big downside being in can't think of any other SM army that's as dice-gods dependant (maybe grey knights?)

EDIT: I Anyone thinking MSU tacs with a HF and CC sarge would be worth a shot?

We can still go CAD + some formation, but everything else is pushing red thirst.

I think Lucifer+LBSF has some serious potential and is what I'm currently working on, especially since you can give the techmarine a jump pack and put him with a squad of death co. An empty redeemer and 3 preds (maybe 2 asscan baals and one tri las?) seems like a good fit.

Played the Lost bortherhood with a DC-strike force (+ a CAD) last week and totally ripped apart a Tau suit-list . In the end he started dancing around avoiding my jumping DC's in order to be able to score some much needed points.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:
Played the Lost bortherhood with a DC-strike force (+ a CAD) last week and totally ripped apart a Tau suit-list . In the end he started dancing around avoiding my jumping DC's in order to be able to score some much needed points.

Did you end up winning? How much did the 6in move help you?

If you're taking a Veteran Sergeant to exploit the charge bonuses why not take a Power Spear? Then he's Strength 6 on the charge.

 Saber wrote:
If you're taking a Veteran Sergeant to exploit the charge bonuses why not take a Power Spear? Then he's Strength 6 on the charge.

Mainly because I don't have the model. And because sometimes you get charged.

A quick question - taking Terminators from say the Archangels Strike Force and putting them in the Land Raider from the Lucifer formation doesn't turn off the Lucifer Scout/Fast, right ?

Edit - Perhaps not the most competitive, but I'd imagine this will be fun at 1500 and I have the models. The Deathwing player in me would of been very happy with the list anyway back in 5th ed . Fudge knows what to do with the Techmarine though...

Archangels Strike Force
Librarian w/ TDA, SS, Lvl2
1x Furioso Dreadnought w/ Frag, Melta; Lucius Drop Pod
5x TH/SS Terminators
5x Terminators w/ Asscan
5x Terminators w/ Asscan

Lucifer Armoured Task Force
Land Raider Redeemer
Baal Predator w/ Flamestorm
Baal Predator w/ Flamestorm
Techmarine

Techmarine rides in lr and fixes it if it gets immobilized.

Why not put him on a bike with some gravbikes. He can still fix a lr and they can support your tank providing much needed grav.

 koooaei wrote:
Why not put him on a bike with some gravbikes. He can still fix a lr and they can support your tank providing much needed grav.

I'm down with having him ride in the LR with 3 servitors. 2+ to repair without a chance to remove the techmarine / servitors sounds good to me.