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Zealot is nasty. Especially because you make all the bullet catchers in each squad die to activate it. The biker captain and libby running around with zealot was brutal. They killed so many necrons. There's lots of lists now if they don't have a good first turn of shooting, they just bought a ticket to rape train because BA have so much speed.

How did you use rhino tacticals? How did they perform?

They did okay. I ran them at warriors as fast as I could so I could barbeque them with heavy flamer goodness. The one squad beat some immortals by three in CC and chased them down. I don't care if the Rhinos die after moving me 24". Plus they got unlucky against one of them for a while.

Well I just bought a predator off of a friend, and I'm about to order my redeemer. Can't wait to see if the LBSF+Lucifer Armored Task Force is as good of a combo as I think.

I've got a LBSF + CAD that's almost all mech.

My problem with rhinos is that's a turn 3 assauld at best. But i guess they were mostly shooty with a nice charge ability as a bonus. A bunch of s5 attacks is neat indeed. Every time i tried out flash gitz they ended up doing more damage in melee rather than with their fancy s5 ap d6 assault 3 gunz.

 koooaei wrote:
My problem with rhinos is that's a turn 3 assauld at best. But i guess they were mostly shooty with a nice charge ability as a bonus. A bunch of s5 attacks is neat indeed. Every time i tried out flash gitz they ended up doing more damage in melee rather than with their fancy s5 ap d6 assault 3 gunz.

I'm not relying on them to be elite assaulters They're still doing most of their damage with the heavy flamer because it doesn't roll to hit and ignores cover.

You guys think there's any potential in using the Orbital Intervention force as a solution against Riptide Wing?

- 3x Riptides can only intercept/overwatch about ~3-4 termies.
- it costs their next shooting phase.
- it denies the opportunity to use Hailfire.
- the Riptides are within 6" to reroll nova, they can be multicharged and taken out of the game for 2-3 times less than their cost.
- DS has the mobility to reach them anywhere.

You need an army with scatter mitigation and reserves tricks, but this seems like a consistently effective countermeasure. Especially against other meta armies (Eldar, Crons) that simply add Riptide Wing as otherwise unsupported allies.

Your best bet is to go CAD + orbital intervention and use Capt Karlaen. Or aegis line w/sniper scouts. I'm not sure how else to get a reroll on the orbital intervention force. Generic captains in a CAD can get three rolls on the strategic trait table too.

Damocles Command Rhino if you use Forge World ? +1 on the reserves roll (not quite as good as a re-roll but not far off), another teleport homer and an orbital bombardment.

Would like to run this at 1500, but having difficulty squeezing in a reserves re-roll from somewhere

Chapter Ancients
Lib Dread w/ Lvl2; Pod w/ Beacon
Dread w/ Asscan; Pod w/ Beacon
Dread w/ Asscan; Pod w/ Beacon

Orbital Intervention Force
5x TH/SS Terminators
5x TH/SS Terminators
5x Terminators w/ Asscan

CAD
Sang Priest
5x Tacticals w/ Pod
5x Tacticals w/ Pod

I could probably loose the Chapter Ancients and squeeze the Dreads into the CAD, dropping the Sang Priest and get a Damocles. I really want to keep the Chapter Ancients though for maximum punchy

I'd like to try the asscan or rokkit termies but "the toad is choking me" when i see them costing the old 40 pts instead of new 35. Also, charge is just such a powerful and more reliable tool vs a lot of things when you have s8 ap2 and charge from the get go. It's just so much more satisfying to squish that cowardly shooter with a hammer.

It all needs playtesting though. Shooty termies can have some merit. For example, you can shoot a hole through bauble wraps before charging in with melee termies. On the other hand, 3 melee squads is there to mitigate crappy charge rolls and ds scatter when pods are dead or out of range. Also, overwatch is a thing and it's good to have a backup squad that's ready to charge in. For example, my last game with termies, 3 died to lazgun overwatch from 10 guardsmen.

Martel732 wrote:
Your best bet is to go CAD + orbital intervention and use Capt Karlaen. Or aegis line w/sniper scouts. I'm not sure how else to get a reroll on the orbital intervention force. Generic captains in a CAD can get three rolls on the strategic trait table too.

Or put them in drop pods.

How does the OIF reserves rules interact with the drop pod assault rules ?

They work just fine, because it just says that they assault the turn they arrive from deep strike. It doesn't say anything about how they are deep striking. It can be pod or teleport.

Not really querying if possible or not - there's nothing in the wording of the rules that seems to prevent it. More of how they interact.

Say for example I have three pods with Dreads, three pods for OIF and a pod for a tac squad.

Do I have to deploy all three OIF pods at the same time ? Do these pods count towards the total for Drop Pod Assault ? What If I only put two of the three OIF squads in Pods ?

OIF units in pods arrive when the pods arrive. The remaining units in deep strike follow the OIF rules. If you pod one unit, the remaining two remain linked.

The pods all function normally, so they count for the total I'd say.

I really like the chapter ancients formation.

Assault cannon HF dread just got a huge buff. So did Fragiosos. In this formation they have now become premium suicide units almost always going to get their points back. Plus if you take enough of them in pods it's a given that a few will make it to assualt with 5 str 10 attacks on the charge.

 Xenomancers wrote:
I really like the chapter ancients formation.

Assault cannon HF dread just got a huge buff. So did Fragiosos. In this formation they have now become premium suicide units almost always going to get their points back. Plus if you take enough of them in pods it's a given that a few will make it to assualt with 5 str 10 attacks on the charge.

Do we think that the Fragioso's can drop in, pop the special rule allowing them to shoot twice, and profit? I read it that they get to shoot in the movement phase INSTEAD of moving. It doesn't seem to me that they get to use the double shoot ability after deep strike.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

I think the disembarkation probably counts as a move. That's what I'd say.

Played a game on wednesday vs necron decurion. Basic killpoints with a pretty standard list at 1500. 3 warrior squads in ghost arks, some immortals, lychguard with an overlord and cryptec, bikes, and the canoptek harvest.

I was playing a pretty suboptimal list since I hadn't finished my Orbital Intervention Force yet. LBSF with 20 death co (1x10 and 2x5) with a smattering of power fists and swords, death co chaplain with gilded crozius, astorath, death co dread in pod and 2x10 assault marines with 2 meltas and a power sword each, combat squadded.

What followed was a blood bath. Even the canoptek harvest couldnt fight me. Melta guns popped his transport, death co carved through his warriors and immortals even with 4+ reanimation protocols rerolling 1s. He went first after deploying on the 12in line and moved up into rapid fire range, but didnt manage to kill nearly enough. That left me with less than 6in charges across the board. He tried to use the shroud to move his lychguard onto my flank to go after my assault marines and avoid my death co, but I just left him in the dust.

Once you reach critical face-punching, the Necrons crumble.

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I really like the chapter ancients formation.

Assault cannon HF dread just got a huge buff. So did Fragiosos. In this formation they have now become premium suicide units almost always going to get their points back. Plus if you take enough of them in pods it's a given that a few will make it to assualt with 5 str 10 attacks on the charge.

Do we think that the Fragioso's can drop in, pop the special rule allowing them to shoot twice, and profit? I read it that they get to shoot in the movement phase INSTEAD of moving. It doesn't seem to me that they get to use the double shoot ability after deep strike.

Let me know if I'm wrong.

Games Workshop's blog talks about doing just this... it's the blog though so make of it what you will

"The options are almost limitless, and all are very powerful – you can have all three arrive on turn one (in Drop Pods, naturally) and then have them all shoot twice. Now imagine all three came with Frag Cannons. That’s a total of twelve, Strength 6, Templates with Rending. Now that should make a horrible mess of just about anything. Not to mention each Dreadnought can have a Heavy Flamer that also gets to fire twice, slung under a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon, ready to deal with whatever poor, broken survivors are left after the barrage. Or you could have 6 multi-melta shots at close range, with 6 melta gun shots as well – you get the idea.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Webstore-Blog/2016/10/19/Angel-s-Blade-My-Favourite-Formations

Huh. How is the mandatory disembarkation NOT movement? I was thinking the true brutality was going to be extra assault phases.

Martel732 wrote:
Once you reach critical face-punching, the Necrons crumble.

Lol. Critical face punching.

And 40+ str5 attacks rerolling to hit AND wound can even take down 10 immortals with buffed up RP.

I feel like a lot of armies crumble to that though.

Edit: also I suppose that the right way of playing our dread formation is the way the people who created it are playing it.

Martel732 wrote:
Huh. How is the mandatory disembarkation NOT movement? I was thinking the true brutality was going to be extra assault phases.

Technically. When QW uses the phrase "instead of" it does not imply the "instead of" action be allowed in the first place. The Skathach Wraithknight shunt generator proves this. Otherwise the Skathach Wraithknight would not be able to move out of close combat because it is not able to move in the movement phase due to being in assault. Familiarize yourself with the interpretation and you will see there is no way without a FAQ that anyone can disallow this strategy.

Did you make a movement in the movement phase? - No you made a mandatory disembark at the start of your turn. Now...Roast some people with double fire dreadnoughts and make up for the BA being UP all these years. Listen to them cry about how theres not counter and stuff. Drink their blood. Sounds fun.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Huh. How is the mandatory disembarkation NOT movement? I was thinking the true brutality was going to be extra assault phases.

Technically. When QW uses the phrase "instead of" it does not imply the "instead of" action be allowed in the first place. The Skathach Wraithknight shunt generator proves this. Otherwise the Skathach Wraithknight would not be able to move out of close combat because it is not able to move in the movement phase due to being in assault. Familiarize yourself with the interpretation and you will see there is no way without a FAQ that anyone can disallow this strategy.

Did you make a movement in the movement phase? - No you made a mandatory disembark at the start of your turn. Now...Roast some people with double fire dreadnoughts and make up for the BA being UP all these years. Listen to them cry about how theres not counter and stuff. Drink their blood. Sounds fun.

I like the way you think.

Just going back a little:

 koooaei wrote:
It all needs playtesting though. Shooty termies can have some merit. For example, you can shoot a hole through bauble wraps before charging in with melee termies. On the other hand, 3 melee squads is there to mitigate crappy charge rolls and ds scatter when pods are dead or out of range.

There's some cool toys available to the tac termies. Against a 9HP walker (think Brass Scorpion or Stompa), you can attempt to tarpit with charge termies, then run in next player turn with about 9-12 chainfist attacks at S9. There's also a 5pt relic sword exclusive to the Termie Sgt that gives Instant Death on 6's. I think that's their best utility -- follow up anything too durable for the TH/SS teams.

You're basically paying 30pts over SM chainfist termies to access the ID Sword. So, I'd say make sure you've got a good reason to take it. Get some more traction through attack buffs, melee rerolls, etc.

I'm not terribly excited by their shooting options, though at least you get some extra firepower on the drop.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Huh. How is the mandatory disembarkation NOT movement? I was thinking the true brutality was going to be extra assault phases.

Technically. When QW uses the phrase "instead of" it does not imply the "instead of" action be allowed in the first place. The Skathach Wraithknight shunt generator proves this. Otherwise the Skathach Wraithknight would not be able to move out of close combat because it is not able to move in the movement phase due to being in assault. Familiarize yourself with the interpretation and you will see there is no way without a FAQ that anyone can disallow this strategy.

Did you make a movement in the movement phase? - No you made a mandatory disembark at the start of your turn. Now...Roast some people with double fire dreadnoughts and make up for the BA being UP all these years. Listen to them cry about how theres not counter and stuff. Drink their blood. Sounds fun.

I don't think that comparison is apples to apples. I don't know anything about the Skathach Wraithknight, but if it can make a special move instead of moving during the movement phase, it still didn't move prior to jumping out of assault.

Wow...I said "move" too many times in that sentence.

Either way, if I have to litigate what "instead of moving" means with the intended outcome being my Dreadnought gets to actually MOVE before using the ability it gets to do if it didn't move, my friends would look at me like I was stealing from them. It is interesting that GWs blog seems to indicate it is indeed possible to arrive via Drop Pod and use the Well-Times Strike special ability right away...but GW has never been good at reading (and following) their own rules.

I sent them an email, the response to which, if they should give one, I'll use for myself and not shove down everyone's throat.

Martel732 wrote:
Huh. How is the mandatory disembarkation NOT movement? I was thinking the true brutality was going to be extra assault phases.

Yeah, my thinking as well. Punch your way out of one assault in your movement phase, go and assault someone else in the assault phase.

Re the movement phase and Well Timed Blow. The wording is just a mess, and contradicts itself. It's even worse for the extra assault phase.
To perform the extra pile in and attacks, I presume you must be locked in combat from the previous player turn ? Rules for locked in combat state that "“Units that are locked in combat cannot move in the Movement phase”. If you can't move in the movement phase, you can never give up your movement to do the pile in move and extra attacks ?

Also from the pile in move/additional attacks from Well Timed Blow - if you've inflicted unsaved wounds during the movement phase, does your opponent have to take a morale check ?

 Voidwraith wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Huh. How is the mandatory disembarkation NOT movement? I was thinking the true brutality was going to be extra assault phases.

Technically. When QW uses the phrase "instead of" it does not imply the "instead of" action be allowed in the first place. The Skathach Wraithknight shunt generator proves this. Otherwise the Skathach Wraithknight would not be able to move out of close combat because it is not able to move in the movement phase due to being in assault. Familiarize yourself with the interpretation and you will see there is no way without a FAQ that anyone can disallow this strategy.

Did you make a movement in the movement phase? - No you made a mandatory disembark at the start of your turn. Now...Roast some people with double fire dreadnoughts and make up for the BA being UP all these years. Listen to them cry about how theres not counter and stuff. Drink their blood. Sounds fun.

I don't think that comparison is apples to apples. I don't know anything about the Skathach Wraithknight, but if it can make a special move instead of moving during the movement phase, it still didn't move prior to jumping out of assault.

Wow...I said "move" too many times in that sentence.

Either way, if I have to litigate what "instead of moving" means with the intended outcome being my Dreadnought gets to actually MOVE before using the ability it gets to do if it didn't move, my friends would look at me like I was stealing from them. It is interesting that GWs blog seems to indicate it is indeed possible to arrive via Drop Pod and use the Well-Times Strike special ability right away...but GW has never been good at reading (and following) their own rules.

I sent them an email, the response to which, if they should give one, I'll use for myself and not shove down everyone's throat.

Please let us know what they say in response...I really hope they allow it this way. It would really make dreadnoughts playable.