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So I'm still a bit confused about formations, detachments and so on, and I have a couple of army lists that I'm pretty sure are legal, but would like a second opinion. The point values aren't relevant in this case, I'm just looking to see if I've done the formations correctly.

Red Scorpions
Skyhammer Formation

Loth + Sternguard
5x Tac Squads

2x Dreadnoughts

Librarius Conclave

War Congregation
Dominus
2x Kataphron units (either Destroyers or Breachers)

Skitarii Rangers
Skitarii Vanguard
Rustalkers
Infiltrators
1x Dragoon
1x Ballistrati
1x Onager

Imperial Knight

So this'll then let me take the free upgrades, am I correct? Is it possible to get this bonus with fewer units?

Thanks

Not sure about scitarii stuff but the first list, depending on who you ask, is illegal due to Loth being an outdated model with outdated rules.

Unless I am mistaken, I do not believe that forgeworld has listed models that can be used within formations, only taken as part of a CAD.

I can't remember but I think there was confirmation on them being aloud, but only if they're the same type of unit, such as loth replacing tiggy.

The Skitarii Battle Maniple uses one unit of Dragoons or Ironstriders, not both.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Not sure about scitarii stuff but the first list, depending on who you ask, is illegal due to Loth being an outdated model with outdated rules.

Would you also say Tyberos' rules are illegal? What about Huron? I've had no issues before about using him, why should the fact that he's a bit dated make him illegal?

 Valkyrie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Not sure about scitarii stuff but the first list, depending on who you ask, is illegal due to Loth being an outdated model with outdated rules.

Would you also say Tyberos' rules are illegal? What about Huron? I've had no issues before about using him, why should the fact that he's a bit dated make him illegal?

Well the major exeption people take to him is that his special rule pertaining to his psychic powered armour runs off of (I believe) 6th edition psychic phase, so in 7th it requires a ruling to be made on how it is used. In a tournament environment the TO might just decide that it doesn't work in 7th so he can't be used.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Not sure about scitarii stuff but the first list, depending on who you ask, is illegal due to Loth being an outdated model with outdated rules.

Would you also say Tyberos' rules are illegal? What about Huron? I've had no issues before about using him, why should the fact that he's a bit dated make him illegal?

Well the major exeption people take to him is that his special rule pertaining to his psychic powered armour runs off of (I believe) 6th edition psychic phase, so in 7th it requires a ruling to be made on how it is used. In a tournament environment the TO might just decide that it doesn't work in 7th so he can't be used.

So you're wrong then. He's not illegal, just some TOs may have an issue with it. Seeing as I have no urge to play a tournament anytime soon that shouldn't be an issue either.

 Valkyrie wrote:
So I'm still a bit confused about formations, detachments and so on, and I have a couple of army lists that I'm pretty sure are legal, but would like a second opinion. The point values aren't relevant in this case, I'm just looking to see if I've done the formations correctly.

Red Scorpions
Skyhammer Formation

Loth + Sternguard
5x Tac Squads

2x Dreadnoughts

Librarius Conclave

War Congregation
Dominus
2x Kataphron units (either Destroyers or Breachers)

Skitarii Rangers
Skitarii Vanguard
Rustalkers
Infiltrators
1x Dragoon
1x Ballistrati
1x Onager

Imperial Knight

So this'll then let me take the free upgrades, am I correct? Is it possible to get this bonus with fewer units?

Thanks

There is no formation called war congeregation. It is "Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation"

it requires 1 battle congregation, 1 skitarri battle maniple, and 1 oathsworn detachment.

you can take the free upgrades, but only for the units in that detachment not your whole army- additionally you take 1 ironstrider or 1 dunestalker not both.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Not sure about scitarii stuff but the first list, depending on who you ask, is illegal due to Loth being an outdated model with outdated rules.

Would you also say Tyberos' rules are illegal? What about Huron? I've had no issues before about using him, why should the fact that he's a bit dated make him illegal?

Well the major exeption people take to him is that his special rule pertaining to his psychic powered armour runs off of (I believe) 6th edition psychic phase, so in 7th it requires a ruling to be made on how it is used. In a tournament environment the TO might just decide that it doesn't work in 7th so he can't be used.

So you're wrong then. He's not illegal, just some TOs may have an issue with it. Seeing as I have no urge to play a tournament anytime soon that shouldn't be an issue either.

Illegal, no, but Loth is technically broken in that his armor's special ability simply cannot work in the current rules without some houseruling.

As TannHauser points out, Loth requires house ruling to play in 7th ed. Although I made a specific reference to a TO it isn't just TO's who would be dubioua allowing you to use Loth, in order to play you your opponant will have to agree to your house ruling on him before you play. Most people will agree to this and be a good sport but others may take exception.

It's just some friendly advice, no need to be agressive.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
Not sure about scitarii stuff but the first list, depending on who you ask, is illegal due to Loth being an outdated model with outdated rules.

Would you also say Tyberos' rules are illegal? What about Huron? I've had no issues before about using him, why should the fact that he's a bit dated make him illegal?

Well the major exeption people take to him is that his special rule pertaining to his psychic powered armour runs off of (I believe) 6th edition psychic phase, so in 7th it requires a ruling to be made on how it is used. In a tournament environment the TO might just decide that it doesn't work in 7th so he can't be used.

So you're wrong then. He's not illegal, just some TOs may have an issue with it. Seeing as I have no urge to play a tournament anytime soon that shouldn't be an issue either.

Illegal, no, but Loth is technically broken in that his armor's special ability simply cannot work in the current rules without some houseruling.

Wouldn't that still be legal model but without house rule his armour doesn't work one way or another? Rest of the model's rules would be usable still.

Surely though a model and its special rules are one in the same, if a rule doesn't work then the model can't be used, otherwise you are picking and choosing which rules a model has.
Therefore house rules are required to use the model.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Surely though a model and its special rules are one in the same, if a rule doesn't work then the model can't be used, otherwise you are picking and choosing which rules a model has.
Therefore house rules are required to use the model.

That logic makes no sense. Its not like his rule is removed, it just has no practical effect in 7ed.

He is not illegal, he is functionally invalid.

There is no legal recourse to his rules(although just following what the rules say and the turn he uses his 2++ he provides 1 less warp charge to the pool in the psychic phase).

So long as FW has declared their characters as valid for formations everything is fine.

There is also no such thing as a not-legal armylist. Unless you are attempting to provide wargear to models without access or claim a formation with units not specified: there is only bound or unbound.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

There is also no such thing as a not-legal armylist. Unless you are attempting to provide wargear to models without access or claim a formation with units not specified: there is only bound or unbound.

The Squats would like to have a word with you about the status of their army lists (at least the ones that aren't "counts as" lists).