Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Looking for help choosing a Legion for my 30k army. Have read through similar threads and the advice about fluff, paint schemes, characters, and the like. These points all makes sense, but don't get me down to a single choice.

Have been considering the following, but am open to others:

- Sons of Horus: first choice, but have heard elite units are very expensive / overcosted and make them harder to play.
- Iron Warriors: have heard their elite units are amongst the toughest in the game.
- Alpha Legion: have heard they can take special units from other armies, but not much more than that.
- Death Guard: have always loved Death Guard, but don't know much about their playstyle.
- Word Bearers: am intrigued by Word Bearers but don't know much about them. Am weary of an over-dependence on psychic powers.

In terms of what is important to me style-wise:

- I have no problem painting and am okay with any paint scheme, from simple to challenging / complex.
- Being a 40k CSM player, I try to avoid armies that involve overcosted / underpowered units that can't make their way onto the tabletop. Absurd flaws diminish my interest in the game quickly.
- I prefer to run multiple lists. One-dimensional armies that only support a single playstyle are not as appealing.
- I like armies that feature a lot of infantry and tactics that buff them in some way. Part of the reason I decided to build a 30k army is the number of models in each squad.
- I also like armies with a small number of really tough units, or with a strong armored detachment. My favorite 40k army ever was a 3.5th edition Iron Warriors list, which included a lot of tanks.
- Not a fan of psychic powers or random roles. Any list that depends on dice going off correctly to be viable is less attractive.
- I could run a loyalist list... Iron Hands and Imperial Fists are options I would consider. But only if they represent a serious upgrade over a Traitor list.

Over the last year, I sold off about 12k worth of CSMs and ended up trading for some NIB models that would ideally form the core of the army. I'd like a list to be able to use most / all of the following:

- 2 x Betrayal at Calth boxed sets
- 3 x Contemptor dreads with an assortment of weapons (which I would magnetize)
- 2 x Fire Raptors
- 1 x Spartan
- 2 x Sicarans
- 3 x Deimos-pattern Predators
- 3 x Rapiers
- A bag of Jetbike bits with enough parts for 6 - 8 Jetbikes.
- Some Titan parts, mostly consisting of arm-mounted weapons for Reavers and Warhounds. I could probably buy a body and have everything I need for a Reaver.

Sounds to me like you could use some AL love. Dynat makes their alpha strike really good, while Alpharius almost guarantees that you'll get the first turn. Headhunters are meh, but they're fluffy and can be justified, when put into a Rhino and scouted right next to enemy's positions. AP3 Bolters are nice, altough you'll need some re-rolls for them ideally. Perhaps using a Librarian?

Also you can field other Legions' units. Phoenix Guard and Kakophoni are a popular choice, really boosting up an AL army.

some thoughts:

- All of the Legions you've mentioned can be very Infantry-heavy. Death Guard, Word Bearers and Iron Warriors are all the sort of legions that feature big infantry goon squads and then using their Legion rules and Rites to buff them en masse (like Was taking morale checks on 3d6). Sons of Horus and Alpha Legion are more centred around smaller specialist squads and using their Legion rules and Rites to give them big operational changes on the battlefield (like giving the whole AL army infiltrate)

- It seems that, if you want multiple play styles AND you like armour, the most obvious thing to do would be to build a big solid base of infantry, a decent 'Armoured' list and then use them in combo or switch between them as you wish.

- Of the Legions you list, the Iron Warriors are the most obvious 'Armoured' choice, but you don't really have their Artillery focus in your selection of models. The fast nature of your vehicles might lease you towards Sons of Horus or Alpha Legion. The Rapiers would be useful in a DG army, or any army really!

- Given all the parameters, I actually think Sons of Horus might be the best bet. They're good all rounders, focusing on making the basic Infantry very good, and also focussing on a savage 'Speartip' strike, which your Sicaran, Spartan, Jetbikes and Fire Raptors would be perfect for. They look good in MKIV armour, and you'd have a fair number of Cataphractii Terminators from the BAC sets, which you could combine with some Justaerin (or just Justaerin parts to get loads). That gives the option of doing a pretty savage fast moving terminator strike force, or going for a more static 'lots of marines' army.

I second use of the Sons of Horus, they are good alrounders and their special units arent too bad after the updated Red Book came out. Justaerin got two additional models in the base Squad and each one now has 2 Wounds. Reavers can be made expensive but are awesome.

Before you decide on the Traitors, might I suggest looking at the Closet Traitors of the First Legion? With out their special Rites of War they seem a little bland, but that's why they have the special RoW.

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)#I_Legion:_Dark_Angels

You mentioned tanks, Ironwing is good for that with several bonus' all around for the army, but also some drawbacks and since you mentioned Jetbikes they have the Ravenwing.

The Iron Hands have some pretty decent amour upgrades, as well as some strong infantry buffs.

Mat

If you enjoyed to play Iron Warriors I recommend you try to play them now again. they don´t have the best common rules but their 3 special units are awsome, specially the Iron circle.

And with the terminators from the boxes you could build the Siege Tyrant Terminators.

 Justycar wrote:

And with the terminators from the boxes you could build the Siege Tyrant Terminators.

Yeah, you just need five cyclone missiles launchers, which costs more than the terminators do...

 JamesY wrote:

 Justycar wrote:

And with the terminators from the boxes you could build the Siege Tyrant Terminators.

Yeah, you just need five cyclone missiles launchers, which costs more than the terminators do...

There are some companies that make them.

Yeah, but I've not seen any that either look as good, or offer any noticeable savings once p&p has been paid for.

I'm not knocking them, I was just pointing out that it isn't as straight forward as building them as siege tyrants.

If you want a wide range of playstyles, Word Bearers are perfect. You can run any 'generic' Legion list with them (heavy infantry, heavy armour, elites etc) but then you can also change up and play a Cult Militia ally list, a Chaos Demon Ally list, you can go heavy into Psychic Powers (and until Thousand Sons rules come you have dominance on the Psychic Phase) and you even get your own Drop Pod Rite of War if you like a Drop Pod style of gameplay.

Lorgar is also one of the better Primarch's, despite what you may think on first glance. Assuming you pay for the Transfigured upgrade (which you'll do...), his Psychic Potential is devastating.

 GoonBandito wrote:
If you want a wide range of playstyles, Word Bearers are perfect. You can run any 'generic' Legion list with them (heavy infantry, heavy armour, elites etc) but then you can also change up and play a Cult Militia ally list, a Chaos Demon Ally list, you can go heavy into Psychic Powers (and until Thousand Sons rules come you have dominance on the Psychic Phase) and you even get your own Drop Pod Rite of War if you like a Drop Pod style of gameplay.

Lorgar is also one of the better Primarch's, despite what you may think on first glance. Assuming you pay for the Transfigured upgrade (which you'll do...), his Psychic Potential is devastating.

I for one am enjoying using Word Bearers. Serrated Sun FTW

However, I've been wanting to try Alpha Legion as well. Too hard for me to choose a specific unit for The Rewards Of Treason to use on The Coils Of The Hydra though.

This is all very helpful, thank you for all the comments. This discussion definitely moves me closer to a decision.

Let's talk about Rites of War / Special Characters for Alpha Legion and Sons of Horus.

Coils of the Hydra seems great, but the restrictions around infiltrating units sounds harsh. Practically, has this screwed up anyone's army lists? What units can't infiltrate or take a dedicated transport?

The Black Reaving seems great, but Cut them Down confuses me. Does this mean you only get the Rage bonus for charging a unit that has been in combat for at least one turn before the current one?

Also - with Reavers - are these basically the Chosen of a Sons of Horus army? What's so special about them?

Also - did I read it right that Horus on the battlefield means units arriving from reserve all get outflank?

 techsoldaten wrote:
This is all very helpful, thank you for all the comments. This discussion definitely moves me closer to a decision.

Let's talk about Rites of War / Special Characters for Alpha Legion and Sons of Horus.

Coils of the Hydra seems great, but the restrictions around infiltrating units sounds harsh. Practically, has this screwed up anyone's army lists? What units can't infiltrate or take a dedicated transport?

Anything with the LA: Alpha Legion rule can infiltrate if you chose that as your Mutable Tactic, and Im pretty sure everything gets a DT. I'd recomend if you go Alpha Legion to have DTs for the Rite of War so you can swap between those and infitrate to keep the enemy on their toes, thats the strength of the Twentieth.

The Black Reaving seems great, but Cut them Down confuses me. Does this mean you only get the Rage bonus for charging a unit that has been in combat for at least one turn before the current one?

Thats how that works I believe.

Also - with Reavers - are these basically the Chosen of a Sons of Horus army? What's so special about them?

They get Precision Strikes and Precision Shots. The whole squad can have Jump Packs (Which you buy for the Squad not per model), Volkite and Power Weapons. They are like Vanguard Vets with a healthy mix of Sternguard, Jump Packs make them count as Two Models for Merciless Fighters, and since they can take Assault and Pistol Weapons they get to take maximum advantage of Death Dealers.

Also - did I read it right that Horus on the battlefield means units arriving from reserve all get outflank?

That's what it says.