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So. I give a specialist infiltrate, this transfers to the rhino as his dedicated transport, yes? Can I still put other members of the kill team (Purchased as the same squad) in the rhino, even though they don't have infiltrate, and still use the rule to cheese the whole team up the board?

No because Infiltrators deploy after normal deployment so the non-infiltrating models will already be deployed before you get to even try to infiltrate the rhino

Yes you can. As per page 12.

If the vehicle is a dedicated transport then all members of the unit that purchased it may start in the vehicle. So if one has infiltrate the they all will untill they climb out

Ps.. very much cheese but it works.

Still no. You can start in the rhino but the rule of one guy isn't transfered to the rest of them, cancelling it out.

nope only way to infiltrate a unit ina transport is if it is a dedicated transport for the whole unit.

Really I think Scouts are the only unit capable of this in the game currently.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Still no. You can start in the rhino but the rule of one guy isn't transfered to the rest of them, cancelling it out.

You can. As infiltrate stats that unit that starts in a dedicated transport. Coffers infiltrate to the transport.

Therefore if one guy has infiltrate and gives it to the transport then everyone in the transport can infiltrate

Ok lets go over this one again.

If you give a model infiltrate, and you put it in a rhino with other models that dont have infiltrate, then yes, the entire unit can infultrate at that point.

If you deploy a unit during normal deployment, its not infiltrating, if you are deploying during the infiltrate, they are infiltrating, even if they dont have the rule, they are still being deployed as such.

Now if you deploy your rhino loaded with 9 marines and 1 with infiltrate during the infiltrate phase, and you then unload them all, those 9 still cannot charge on that turn because they still entered the board via the infiltrate method.

But yes you can infiltrate an entire unit if one model has the rule.

DTs only get Infiltrate if the unit dedicated to them has Infiltrate. This is specified in the DT rules. It is not because an infiltrator is embarked, but because one is dedicated to that transport that gives the DT infiltrate

Units that do not have Infiltrate cannot be "held back" to deploy with Infiltrators. They are either deployed as normal, or must go into Reserves (which only happens for Outflank in KT). This decision is made BOTH infiltrators.
Infiltrators can be "held back" at this point.
Units are considered 'embarked" because they Deployed in the transport. Since the Rhino has not been deployed yet, the non-infiltrating Marines cannot deploy in it. However the single infiltrating Marine can chose to be "held back" to infiltrate embarked in the Rhino. It will "embark" once the Rhino has infiltrated

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 Galef wrote:
DTs only get Infiltrate if the unit dedicated to them has Infiltrate. This is specified in the DT rules. It is not because an infiltrator is embarked, but because one is dedicated to that transport that gives the DT infiltrate

Units that do not have Infiltrate cannot be "held back" to deploy with Infiltrators. They are either deployed as normal, or must go into Reserves. This decision is made BOTH infiltrators and no unit is "joined to" or "embarked in" anything at this point. Infiltrators can be "held back" at this point, and infiltrators are "embarked" at this stage.

Since during the Deployment step, the OTHER 9 Marines do not have Infiltrate (and in KT cannot be placed in Reserve unless Outflank) those 9 Marines MUST BE DEPLOYED and thus would not be able to be Infiltrated along with the Rhino & 1 Marine that is conferring Infiltrate to said Rhino

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Yes and no, if you give infiltrate to 1 model, and attach him to the other 9, they all now have infiltrate per the infiltrate rule, and when in the DT, it gets infiltrate as well again per the infiltrate rule .

After deployment, you can then break that one unit off, and the other 9 loose the infiltrate rule, how ever because they deployed during the infiltrate phase, they still can not charge turn one.

your specialist infiltrate does not confer to the remaining marines.

 Xenomancers wrote:
your specialist infiltrate does not confer to the remaining marines.

Does kill team specifically state that these rules are not confuted to the unit it is attached to?

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Galef wrote:
DTs only get Infiltrate if the unit dedicated to them has Infiltrate. This is specified in the DT rules. It is not because an infiltrator is embarked, but because one is dedicated to that transport that gives the DT infiltrate

Units that do not have Infiltrate cannot be "held back" to deploy with Infiltrators. They are either deployed as normal, or must go into Reserves. This decision is made BOTH infiltrators and no unit is "joined to" or "embarked in" anything at this point. Infiltrators can be "held back" at this point, and infiltrators are "embarked" at this stage.

Since during the Deployment step, the OTHER 9 Marines do not have Infiltrate (and in KT cannot be placed in Reserve unless Outflank) those 9 Marines MUST BE DEPLOYED and thus would not be able to be Infiltrated along with the Rhino & 1 Marine that is conferring Infiltrate to said Rhino

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Yes and no, if you give infiltrate to 1 model, and attach him to the other 9, they all now have infiltrate per the infiltrate rule, and when in the DT, it gets infiltrate as well again per the infiltrate rule .

After deployment, you can then break that one unit off, and the other 9 loose the infiltrate rule, how ever because they deployed during the infiltrate phase, they still can not charge turn one.

The confusion seems to be that the 1 model is "joined" to the other 9. In KT all models are separate units. The 1 Infiltrator can NEVER be part of another unit, thus Infiltrate will not be conferred.
KT has a special allowance for models to embark to the full Transport capacity as long as all members embarked were (note WERE) bought from the same original unit.
This breaks the main rule that only 1 unit can be embarked at the same time, but it DOES NOT make all 10 marines into a single unit. They are still 10 separate units in 1 Rhino.

So since 9 of the Marines do not have Infiltrate, they can either Deploy normally, or Outflank (if they have that rule). They must choose to do this both Infiltrators, meaning that they MUST either be already Deployed or in Outflank Reserve at the stage in which the Rhino with 1 Marine can Infiltrate.

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They can't join each other, it's killteam. Each marine is it's own unit. Multiple marines CAN go into a Rhino... but they can not join each other to make a single unit. As such they do not confer Infiltrate to each other.

 Galef wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Galef wrote:
DTs only get Infiltrate if the unit dedicated to them has Infiltrate. This is specified in the DT rules. It is not because an infiltrator is embarked, but because one is dedicated to that transport that gives the DT infiltrate

Units that do not have Infiltrate cannot be "held back" to deploy with Infiltrators. They are either deployed as normal, or must go into Reserves. This decision is made BOTH infiltrators and no unit is "joined to" or "embarked in" anything at this point. Infiltrators can be "held back" at this point, and infiltrators are "embarked" at this stage.

Since during the Deployment step, the OTHER 9 Marines do not have Infiltrate (and in KT cannot be placed in Reserve unless Outflank) those 9 Marines MUST BE DEPLOYED and thus would not be able to be Infiltrated along with the Rhino & 1 Marine that is conferring Infiltrate to said Rhino

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Yes and no, if you give infiltrate to 1 model, and attach him to the other 9, they all now have infiltrate per the infiltrate rule, and when in the DT, it gets infiltrate as well again per the infiltrate rule .

After deployment, you can then break that one unit off, and the other 9 loose the infiltrate rule, how ever because they deployed during the infiltrate phase, they still can not charge turn one.

The confusion seems to be that the 1 model is "joined" to the other 9. In KT all models are separate units. The 1 Infiltrator can NEVER be part another unit, thus Infiltrate will not be conferred.
KT has a special allowance for models to embark to the full Transport capacity as long as all members embarked were (note WERE) bought from the same original unit.
This breaks the main rule that only 1 unit can be embarked at the same time, but it DOES NOT make all 10 marines into a single unit. They are still 10 separate units in 1 Rhino.

So since 9 of the Marines do not have Infiltrate, they can either Deploy normally, or Outflank (if they have that rule). The will choose to do this both Infiltrators, meaning that they MUST either be Deployed or in Outflank Reseve at the stage in which the Rhino with 1 Marine infiltrates

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Unless different, i need to get the rules infront of me, you can still 'unit' models, for example i can have 1 unit of 10 marines, 2 units of 5, 3 units of 3 and 1. They can break at any time, but can never rejoin.

Doesn't work that way in Killteam. That one unit of 10, it bought as a unit of ten. But when playing all 10 of them get split up into 10 separate units. Same goes for all the other bought units. That unit can't break up since they already are broken up in Killteam.

Same as in 40K. One 10 man Space Marine unit can't join another 10 man Space Marine unit right?

I mean if we could, Killteam would be ridiculous. That way every special rule you can assign could be shared. Meaning a full squad with rerolls, hatred, etc... A.K.A. ... You got Guard? Oh that's cute.

 Backspacehacker wrote:

Unless different, i need to get the rules infront of me, you can still 'unit' models, for example i can have 1 unit of 10 marines, 2 units of 5, 3 units of 3 and 1. They can break at any time, but can never rejoin.

That may be how it works for Heralds of Ruin (I wouldn't know since I use only official GW rules and not something some random guys made up), but in the official GW Kill Team rules that were recently released, the "Every man for himself" rule clearly states that all models are separate individual units. The rules even ignore the Independent Character rule entirely (just in case you somehow have an IC from Elites, Troops or Fast)

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Unless different, i need to get the rules infront of me, you can still 'unit' models, for example i can have 1 unit of 10 marines, 2 units of 5, 3 units of 3 and 1. They can break at any time, but can never rejoin.

Not since the Battle Missions version released long ago (or maybe even farther back, I haven't seen the earlier version, just heard stories). There is a rule called "Every Man For Himself" and it has not changed since then. When you go to deploy your "army", each model is treated as a separate unit. So, Infiltrate cannot proliferate from one model to the rest, as they are not being treated as one unit.

This is a default rule for Kill Team. They may be changed by an organizer for a specific event with some things in mind, but that doesn't make them standard.

 Charistoph wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Unless different, i need to get the rules infront of me, you can still 'unit' models, for example i can have 1 unit of 10 marines, 2 units of 5, 3 units of 3 and 1. They can break at any time, but can never rejoin.

Not since the Battle Missions version released long ago (or maybe even farther back, I haven't seen the earlier version, just heard stories). There is a rule called "Every Man For Himself" and it has not changed since thin. When you go to deploy your "army", each model is treated as a separate unit. So, Infiltrate cannot proliferate from one model to the rest, as they are not being treated as one unit.

This is a default rule for Kill Team. They may be changed by an organizer for a specific event with some things in mind, but that doesn't make them standard.

I feel like this was addressed in a previous thread. The way you describe it is how it was played at your local GW, right? (@backspacehacker)

I let you know in that same thread (if it was you) that they were playing a weirdly modified version of Kill Team and that isn't how the rules actually work.

The issue entirely stems from the fact that the Dedicated Transport gets to be dedicated to multiple units at the same time. It would be roughly the same as if a Rhino could be declared the DT for both a unit of marines and scouts together.

I feel like this is one of those things that isn't going to get a satisfying answer without an FAQ unfortunately. It's an exceedingly common situation in Kill Team since you can trivially manufacture it, but the rules explaining how transports work in Kill Team don't properly address all the things that can come up when a DT is the D for multiple Ts.

It really shouldn't take a FAQ, though, as it's already outlined in the rules for Infiltrate. The units without infiltrate have to all be deployed before the units with infiltrate. This requires the 9 models without infiltrate before the one model with infiltrate is deployed. If you deploy the transport with the 9 models without infiltrate, it's already deployed on the board before the model with infiltrate deploys. If you decide to deploy the model with infiltrate inside the Rhino, then both the model and the Rhino must wait until all units that aren't infiltrators are deployed. Again, you have the 9 non-infiltrating models deployed before the infiltrating one. In the case of the Rhino with the non-infiltrators, according to the rules the infiltrating model would be allowed to be placed inside the Rhino, but ias it's already deployed it would not be taking advantage of Infiltrate if deployed with the rest of the models.

I don't really disagree with the outcome, I just don't like the amount of personal assumption I need to reach that outcome. It's just the kind of thing ripe for confusion.

LunarSol wrote:
I don't really disagree with the outcome, I just don't like the amount of personal assumption I need to reach that outcome. It's just the kind of thing ripe for confusion.

You mean not being familiar with all the rules you are planning on using?

All those things are written out rather clearly. The only real problem is that they are a little scattered about, and it is a BIG book.