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Okay guys here's the context. My buddy plays OP Eldar and I need to figure out a way to beat him or at least compete. He's got a wraithknight, wraithlords, wraithguard, wave serpents, reapers, warp spiders, gaurdians, and jetbikes. Yeah, scary stuff. Iv always collected non competitive stuff, and I think I've always been more of a fluffy player. But now, I think I need to come up with something greasy to actually stand a chance to enjoy the games. So here's what I've got working with the models I have.

Renegades and Heretics
HQ
5 Renegade Command Squad Unending Host lascannon 85 (sits in Chimera and defends the artillery)
Chimera autocannon and militia training 70

Elites
5 Renegade Disciple Squad lascannon 55 (sits in Chimera and defends the artillery)
Chimera autocannon militia training 70

Fast Attack
X3 Spawn 55 (runs around being a general annoyance for cheap points)

Troops
20 Renegade Infantry Squad x2 autocannon and militia training 90 (objective holder with supporting firepower)
20 Renegade Infantry Squad x2 autocannon and militia training 90 (objective holder with supporting firepower)
20 Renegade Infantry Squad x2 meltagun, x2 plasmagun, krak grenades, militia training 130 (mid field marching band to take objectives and get themselves killed)

Heavy Support
145 Colossus Siege Bombard (heavy fire support, ignores wave serpent cover save)

Chaos Daemons
HQ
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage Greater Reward and Grimoire of True Names 325 (ideally, this guy gets invisibility and goes on a rampage killing everything)
Be’lakor 350 (hopefully gets the boon of grimoire for 2++ and kills the wraithknight)

Troops
X10 Bloodletters 100 (here to deepstrike objectives and hopefully assault some infantry)
X10 Bloodletters 100 ('')

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder phlegm 165 (midfield supporting firepower with assaulty threat for anything that gets too close to my Renegades)
Soul Grinder phlegm 165 ('')

Total: 1995

So yeah, the idea is the Renegades and Heretics just sit back and shoot as much as possible. If he targets the Renegade Infantry Squads, they go back to reserves on a 2+ because of Unending Host. Be'Lakor needs to cast invisibility on the Bloodthirster, while the Bloodthirster uses the Grimoire of True Names on Be'Lakor for 2++ invulnerable save. So yes, I am banking the success of this army on the Grimoire of True Names and Invisibility. The general strategy is to have the Bloodthirster and Be'Lakor go wreck a ton of a crap while everything else grabs objectives and lays down supporting fire. I'm also going to put some big fat terrain piece in the middle of the board so that my monstrous creatures can hide behind them .

What do you guys think? This is the best I could come up with, with what I've got.

There's a problem with your troop choices in the Unending host detachment. 4 troop choices min. are required, which is normally (=minimally) :
#1 --- 1 platoon = 3 x 15-man squads
#2 --- 1 platoon = 3 x 15-man squads
#3 --- 10 zombies
#4 --- 10 zombies

I'd say drop the Chimeras (they are useless) and the Colossus Siege Bombard (way too overpriced for its durability). To have something competitive, you need the Unending host and a CAD for obj. sec. zombies (and spawns!) and more artillery units. Against Eldar : thudd guns.

Belakor is good, but will he do better than 3 CSM sorcerers (same price) from the Cabal formation (9 spells in Telepathy, 9 WC, plus good LD for artillery
units)? They are a low cost ($) unit if you don't have them.
The Bloodthirster is good, but why not summoning it? Try to find the points (and money I guess) for Lv3 heralds on disk with horrors.

Yo, okay thanks for the tips that was super helpful. I've remade the list to what I think/hope is legal. Let me know what you think.

Vraks Renegades
HQ
5 Renegade Command Squad Plasmagun 60

Troops
Renegade Infantry Platoon
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X10 zombies 30

Heavy Support
145 Colossus Siege Bombard
X3 Rapier Laser Destroyers 79
X6 Heavy Weapons Teams x6 autocannon militia training 125

Chaos Daemons Combined Arms Detachment
HQ
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage exalted reward Greater Reward 325
Be’lakor 350

Troops
X10 Bloodletters 100
X10 Bloodletters 100

Heavy Support
Soul Grinder phlegm 165
Soul Grinder phlegm 165

Chaos Space Marines Allied Detachment

Sorcerer ML3 familiar 140 (75 percent chance for invisibility or shrouded. Joins Heavy Weapons Team)
X10 cultists 50

Total: 1999

Idea here is to slog forward with 65 cultists. Be'Lakor casts invisibility on D-Thirster, while D-Thirster casts grimoire of True Names on Be'Lakor. Renegades provide ranged heavy support.
Now, the interesting addition is the Chaos Space Marine Sorcerer. The idea is to use him to get shrouding or invisibility for the heavy weapons team. I'll put him in front of that unit so that if the HWT gets shot at, I can use some strategic 'look-out-sirs' to maximize the survivability of the squad. I'm not sure if anyone has ever done this before, but the idea came to me and it seems creative and fun. For 265 points, I can have an invisible 6 autocannon platform with a sorcerer.
I know the list isn't the optimal competitive list, but to me it seems pretty creative and super fun. If I can make it work verses my friends, I'll be satisfied.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS,
After realizing I need TWO full Renegade Infantry Platoons PLUS two more troops choices, I see that I do not have enough models to run the Unending Host Detachment. I have something like 100 cultists/guardsmen, which I thought was a lot, but apparently not enough! So I could either buy a few more to be able to run the list, or just scrap the idea and get more guns. I think I'd rather have more guns XD.

I play both daemons and a cultist heavy CSM, and run very similar detatchments to you, and I have a fair amount of experience against eldar and let me tell you it is a damn up hill battle, but not impossible if you understand both your own units and the eldars units. I'll do what I can to help.

If what you say is true and your opponent takes a lot of wraith units what are you actually intending to do with the loads of Infantry squads and bloodletters? The infantry squads with lasguns can literally not wound even the lowest toughness wraith unit, and will be out-ranged by scatterbikes and warpspiders and just get outright murdered on the objectives they are intending to hold, you need to remember that the only thing they can wound with these units either out-range you and can jump back into cover after shooting you making them (at least against this army) a waste of points. If you want to have some good objective holders that will really cause some trouble for their infantry I recommend removing the shooting infantry and adding as many re-spawning zombies as possible as at least against warp spiders they get 4+ FNP. Personally what I do because I don't like zombies, is run large amounts of CC cultists/renegade mutants and just run them at the enemy, they come back on 4+ (2+ in your case) so if they serve as a distraction thats great! if they get into close combat thats even better! but what your achieving is drawing fire away from your more important units, and late game when the enemies lines are thinned out you still should have loads of units to hold objectives! But again if you just want to objective sit zombies are fine too. I just advise against taking shooting units with low range and strength because I can assure you from experience unless your opponent is silly enough to let his units get into range then they will achieve less than zombies would.

In regards to the bloodletters I can assure you they will never make it into combat, you are taking far too few and deepstiking them will serve as a distraction at best. Both warpspiders and scatterbikes, which are the only thing bloodletters reliably wound, can just run away in their next movement phase out of range of the bloodletters, you need to remember bloodletters are infantry and are far too slow to catch jetpack infantry or jetbikes. If you are intending on killing the wraiths with them good luck, you are wounding on 6's against the weak ones and against the wraithknight you cant even wound it. The solution is possibly ditching lesser daemons all together or taking some daemonettes, with their slanneshi speed they can catch up with the enemy and with rending their wound on 6's like the bloodletters, ignore armour like bloodletters but have more attacks than the bloodletters and also re-roll charge distances so they are objectively better than bloodletters against eldar, it is also rather fluffy.

Artillary is fine, if you know how to use it it is a great asset.

Something I'm a little bit tentative about is taking monsterous creatures against D weapons, even when they are flying, 2 rolls of a 6 and they are dead outright with no saves, the main counter to D weapons are their range being relatively low with the wraithguard, however considering Be'lakor and the Bloodthirster are close combat units I think you will find that they are countered pretty devistatingly, 2+ saves are useless if your opponent ignores them all with D weapons, eldar and tau are essentially the only army that can do this so If you were up against any other army I would recommend keeping them but considering you mentioned your opponent takes a lot of wraiths and assuming you don't want to lose 350 points without them getting into combat (due to the fact you have to wait a turn before charging when swapping between glide mode, they will get a whole round of save ignoring D weapon shots off). I actually agree with RenegadeKorps in this case and I say you should take 3 chaos sorcerers instead of be'lakor, let me explain.

So 3 chaos sorcerers get 9 warp charges with re-rolls, making even just 1 of them more reliable in getting psychic powers off than the dark lord himself. If you have ever taken a sorcerer with spell familiar you will already know how much of a godsend those re-rolls are. Now the real power from the sorcerers comes with in the new powers you get in the traitors hate book and their ability to join units of Renegades thanks to them being allies. The new Chaos sorcerer powers work bloody amazingly with a wide variety of the units you want to take. Sinistrum will counter any enemy psyker conclaves, so if your opponent is taking a lot of farseers or warlocks and takes a scatterbike deathstar, roll sinistrum so you can reduce their invuln saves and blow up the psykers without them being able to take any saves. But the real saving grace comes from geomortis, now I will explain why in a minute but first let me talk about your soul grinders.

Your soul grinders will be your saving grace if your going up against eldar, and are by far the strongest synergy with your sorcerers (if your choose to take them, you will want to after I explain why) now phlem bombardment is a powerful counter to wraith units, it outranges them and is devistatingly powerful in taking out large amounts of them due to its high strength and AP3 ignoring their armor. If you really want to play on even grounds against eldar you are going to want to take the forgehost formation, this uses 3 soul grinders and allows you to RE-ROLL TO HIT AND TO WOUND ROLLS after scoring a wound, I can not tell you how powerful that is against Eldar wraiths, in fact it is utterly devastating against any army. Now with the chaos in sorcerers in tandem with soul grinders it becomes utter cheeze, geomortis takes the cake when it comes to powerful combinations of spells and long range weaponry, roll all your powers on geomortis if your have to but you want to get as many copies of Earthly Anathema as possible on each sorcerer and cast it on your soul grinders. This in effect allows your soul grinder to not only ignore cover, which is vital at taking out large units of scatterbikes, which might I add if you get this spell off you will be killing whole units of 10-20 in 1 turn. But it also allows your soul grinders to ignore line of sight! This allows you to keep your grinders and sorcerers out of LOS and just destroy the whole enemy army as their will get literally no saves, unless they take a warlock conclave and get invuln saves which if thats the case roll one sorcerer on sinistrum and your sorted. This also includes the extra re-rolls to hit and to wound on your grinders, making it bloody amazing.

Geomortis also works well with your bloodthirster, you don't have to worry about flying or getting shot down by D weapons after you swap to and from gliding as with worldwrithe you can essentially get a first turn charge no problem. Like I said, I really like your army and with a few tweaks and changes to units you can really make something competitive not only against eldar but against a lot of other armies too.

So if your wondering how it will all fit together I'll give you a summary.

- take more CC orientated units if you can, it makes the forward slog look more menacing, especially with them coming back on a 2+.
- Instead of a CAD take a allied detatchment of daemons, this will allow you to take the bloodthirster and a one unit a lesser daemons of your choice that don't waste as many points.
- Take a formation of 3 chaos sorcerers, possibly put them with your units of artillery near the soul grinders to buff with geo-mortis and ensure your bloodthirster gets the charge without having to swap between flying modes, also reduces the need for other buffs that would have gotten ignored by eldars D weaponry.
- Use what points you have saved and get a 3rd soul grinder and take the forgehost, this will be your most powerful asset and will hopefully crush the enemy.

If your friend power games with the best units and formations at his disposal your list will certainly give him a run for his money.

Reavas wrote:
I play both daemons and a cultist heavy CSM, and run very similar detatchments to you, and I have a fair amount of experience against eldar and let me tell you it is a damn up hill battle, but not impossible if you understand both your own units and the eldars units. I'll do what I can to help.

If what you say is true and your opponent takes a lot of wraith units what are you actually intending to do with the loads of Infantry squads and bloodletters? The infantry squads with lasguns can literally not wound even the lowest toughness wraith unit, and will be out-ranged by scatterbikes and warpspiders and just get outright murdered on the objectives they are intending to hold, you need to remember that the only thing they can wound with these units either out-range you and can jump back into cover after shooting you making them (at least against this army) a waste of points. If you want to have some good objective holders that will really cause some trouble for their infantry I recommend removing the shooting infantry and adding as many re-spawning zombies as possible as at least against warp spiders they get 4+ FNP. Personally what I do because I don't like zombies, is run large amounts of CC cultists/renegade mutants and just run them at the enemy, they come back on 4+ (2+ in your case) so if they serve as a distraction thats great! if they get into close combat thats even better! but what your achieving is drawing fire away from your more important units, and late game when the enemies lines are thinned out you still should have loads of units to hold objectives! But again if you just want to objective sit zombies are fine too. I just advise against taking shooting units with low range and strength because I can assure you from experience unless your opponent is silly enough to let his units get into range then they will achieve less than zombies would.

In regards to the bloodletters I can assure you they will never make it into combat, you are taking far too few and deepstiking them will serve as a distraction at best. Both warpspiders and scatterbikes, which are the only thing bloodletters reliably wound, can just run away in their next movement phase out of range of the bloodletters, you need to remember bloodletters are infantry and are far too slow to catch jetpack infantry or jetbikes. If you are intending on killing the wraiths with them good luck, you are wounding on 6's against the weak ones and against the wraithknight you cant even wound it. The solution is possibly ditching lesser daemons all together or taking some daemonettes, with their slanneshi speed they can catch up with the enemy and with rending their wound on 6's like the bloodletters, ignore armour like bloodletters but have more attacks than the bloodletters and also re-roll charge distances so they are objectively better than bloodletters against eldar, it is also rather fluffy.

Artillary is fine, if you know how to use it it is a great asset.

Something I'm a little bit tentative about is taking monsterous creatures against D weapons, even when they are flying, 2 rolls of a 6 and they are dead outright with no saves, the main counter to D weapons are their range being relatively low with the wraithguard, however considering Be'lakor and the Bloodthirster are close combat units I think you will find that they are countered pretty devistatingly, 2+ saves are useless if your opponent ignores them all with D weapons, eldar and tau are essentially the only army that can do this so If you were up against any other army I would recommend keeping them but considering you mentioned your opponent takes a lot of wraiths and assuming you don't want to lose 350 points without them getting into combat (due to the fact you have to wait a turn before charging when swapping between glide mode, they will get a whole round of save ignoring D weapon shots off). I actually agree with RenegadeKorps in this case and I say you should take 3 chaos sorcerers instead of be'lakor, let me explain.

So 3 chaos sorcerers get 9 warp charges with re-rolls, making even just 1 of them more reliable in getting psychic powers off than the dark lord himself. If you have ever taken a sorcerer with spell familiar you will already know how much of a godsend those re-rolls are. Now the real power from the sorcerers comes with in the new powers you get in the traitors hate book and their ability to join units of Renegades thanks to them being allies. The new Chaos sorcerer powers work bloody amazingly with a wide variety of the units you want to take. Sinistrum will counter any enemy psyker conclaves, so if your opponent is taking a lot of farseers or warlocks and takes a scatterbike deathstar, roll sinistrum so you can reduce their invuln saves and blow up the psykers without them being able to take any saves. But the real saving grace comes from geomortis, now I will explain why in a minute but first let me talk about your soul grinders.

Your soul grinders will be your saving grace if your going up against eldar, and are by far the strongest synergy with your sorcerers (if your choose to take them, you will want to after I explain why) now phlem bombardment is a powerful counter to wraith units, it outranges them and is devistatingly powerful in taking out large amounts of them due to its high strength and AP3 ignoring their armor. If you really want to play on even grounds against eldar you are going to want to take the forgehost formation, this uses 3 soul grinders and allows you to RE-ROLL TO HIT AND TO WOUND ROLLS after scoring a wound, I can not tell you how powerful that is against Eldar wraiths, in fact it is utterly devastating against any army. Now with the chaos in sorcerers in tandem with soul grinders it becomes utter cheeze, geomortis takes the cake when it comes to powerful combinations of spells and long range weaponry, roll all your powers on geomortis if your have to but you want to get as many copies of Earthly Anathema as possible on each sorcerer and cast it on your soul grinders. This in effect allows your soul grinder to not only ignore cover, which is vital at taking out large units of scatterbikes, which might I add if you get this spell off you will be killing whole units of 10-20 in 1 turn. But it also allows your soul grinders to ignore line of sight! This allows you to keep your grinders and sorcerers out of LOS and just destroy the whole enemy army as their will get literally no saves, unless they take a warlock conclave and get invuln saves which if thats the case roll one sorcerer on sinistrum and your sorted. This also includes the extra re-rolls to hit and to wound on your grinders, making it bloody amazing.

Geomortis also works well with your bloodthirster, you don't have to worry about flying or getting shot down by D weapons after you swap to and from gliding as with worldwrithe you can essentially get a first turn charge no problem. Like I said, I really like your army and with a few tweaks and changes to units you can really make something competitive not only against eldar but against a lot of other armies too.

So if your wondering how it will all fit together I'll give you a summary.

- take more CC orientated units if you can, it makes the forward slog look more menacing, especially with them coming back on a 2+.
- Instead of a CAD take a allied detatchment of daemons, this will allow you to take the bloodthirster and a one unit a lesser daemons of your choice that don't waste as many points.
- Take a formation of 3 chaos sorcerers, possibly put them with your units of artillery near the soul grinders to buff with geo-mortis and ensure your bloodthirster gets the charge without having to swap between flying modes, also reduces the need for other buffs that would have gotten ignored by eldars D weaponry.
- Use what points you have saved and get a 3rd soul grinder and take the forgehost, this will be your most powerful asset and will hopefully crush the enemy.

If your friend power games with the best units and formations at his disposal your list will certainly give him a run for his money.

Dude, this advice in insane! Wow thanks so much! Let me run my thoughts back to you.
One misconception to clarify: I'm not running Unending Host (not enough models :( ) So it's just a generic renegades detachment with three heavy support choices.

Thoughts on forgehost detachment: It sounds like an awesome idea! But I'm going to have a difficult time getting my hands on another soul grinder. I'm not in a position to buy one brand new, so I'll just keep my eyes peeled. I still want to bring two soul grinders, but if I do so, then it seems that I would need to bring a Combined Arms Chaos Daemon detachment since both soul grinders would take up two heavy support instead of being in a single formation, so this means I'll need to bring my two squads of bloodletters. I am aware that they will basically never get to charge. But the list idea is to just have enough infantry to press the eldar, forcing him to waste shots on little guys while my big stuff does the real damage. So yeah, infantry is just there for tactical positioning/distraction/objective claiming.

Thoughts on the 3 Sorcerer Cabal: After taking a good look at Geomortis... WORLDWRITHE IS AMAZING. So yeah, I MUST run it. The strategy I want to do is get one sorcerer with invisibility and another with worldwrithe, then turn one cast invisibility on D-thirster, then shoot him forward with worldwrithe, then see what happens!!! It will be interesting to see how much I can actually fit on one piece of terrain. Maybe I could send a suicide squad of cultists along with him.
Also, I read somewhere that the Cabal was FAQ'd so that you cannot cast the same spell more than once for all your sorcerers in the Cabal. So if that's true it kind of weakens the soul grinder idea.

Here is the new list:

Renegades Combined Arms Detachment
HQ
5 Renegade Command Squad 45
Elites
X3 Spawn 55
Troops
Renegade Infantry Platoon
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X18 Zombies 54
Heavy Support
145 Colossus Siege Mortar
X3 Rapier Laser Destroyers 79
X6 Heavy Weapons Teams x6 autocannon militia training 125

Chaos Daemons Combined Arms Detachment
HQ
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage x2 greater rewards 315
Troops
X10 Bloodletters 100
X10 Bloodletters 100
Heavy Support
Soul Grinder phlegm 165
Soul Grinder phlegm 165

Chaos Space Marines Allied Detachment
Sorcerer Cabal
X3 Sorcerers ML3 familiar 435
X10 Culitsts 50

1999

So I've got a quick question about the Cabal, or maybe it's about formations more generally. Do I need to bring the Chaos Space Marine Allied Detachment to bring the Sorcerer Cabal formation? Or can I just bring the formation without the CSM allied detachment (without going unbound).. Secondly, Does the Cabal formation count as an HQ choice for the CSM allied detachment? Or does it not take any force organization slot, And therefore I'd need to bring another HQ for the allied detachment?

Ok so with formations you can just take them outright, so no need to worry about HQ choices or anything like that, thats why I reccomended the Cabal and forgehost, both would fit nicely in your list and you don't need to take a CAD to use them.

I reccomended to scrap the daemon CAD, and instead making it an allied detatchment so you could bring 1 HQ and 1 troop choice, so a bloodthirster and a unit of bloodletters, then add the forgehost formation which requires just 3 soul grinders, no need for a HQ or troops as well as the sorccerer cabal, which you need a minimum of 3 sorcerers, again no HQ or troops.

Ok so with formations you can just take them outright, so no need to worry about HQ choices or anything like that, thats why I reccomended the Cabal and forgehost, both would fit nicely in your list and you don't need to take a CAD to use them.

I reccomended to scrap the daemon CAD, and instead making it an allied detatchment so you could bring 1 HQ and 1 troop choice, so a bloodthirster and a unit of bloodletters, then add the forgehost formation which requires just 3 soul grinders, no need for a HQ or troops as well as the sorccerer cabal, which you need a minimum of 3 sorcerers, again no HQ or troops.

Now with the FAQ the same 'unit' cant cast the same spell twice, so make sure to split your sorcerers up so they can use as many spells as they like. For example you can put 1 sorcerer in differant units of artillary and you will be fine.

Something important to note with formations is they arent your traditional "detatchment" so there are specific rules reguarding what you can take and unfortunatly you can't take those cultists with the sorcerers. A formation is by itself a detatchment. Have a quick look at this:

See how in the formation tab it has what units you take? You can only take 3 - 5 sorcerers, in addition formations get special rules. Have a quick look at the cabals special rule which is pretty useful sometimes.

Not with the forgehost it requires 3 soul grinders and in that formation the special rules are that if one soul grinder causes a wound, the other two re-roll to hit and to wound rolls

(Sorry for the double post my phone stuffed up)

Hey thanks again for all the advice. I'm currently keeping my eyes peeled for a soul grinder. I'll try a few games with the forgehost, and if it works well I'll go pick one up. Here is the current list:

Renegades Primary Detachment
HQ
5 Renegade Command Squad 45

Elites
X3 Spawn 55

Troops
Renegade Infantry Platoon
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X15 Renegade Infantry Squad krak grenades 55
X10 Zombies 30

Heavy Support
145 Colossus Siege Bombard
X3 Rapier Laser Destroyers 79
X6 Heavy Weapons Teams x6 autocannon militia training 125

Chaos Daemons Allied Detachment
HQ
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage x2 Greater Reward 315

Troops
X10 Bloodletters 100

Forgehost Detachment
Soul Grinder phlegm 165
Soul Grinder phlegm 165
Soul Grinder phlegm 165

Chaos Space Marines Cyclopia Cabal Detachment
X3 Sorcerer ML3 x3 spell familiar 435

1989

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out what my command squad is supposed to do. None of the devotions seem worth it for me given my current set up. Nor do any of the upgrades seem like a good idea since I'm going to have the Sorcerer Cabal anyhow. How do you guys normally kit your command squads? And how do you use them tactically? I was thinking of bringing him as a biomancy psycher, but he is so slow I have no idea how to use him. But whatever additions I add to the command squad has to be better than the 55 points of Spawn, since that's what I'd have to cut from the list to fit it.

I don't add anything to my command squad other then the obligatory devotion or covenant needed to unlock options (like Covenant of Nurgle which you need for the zombies you want to take). The only thing I sometimes take is a heavy weapon like the Autocannon since they are BS4 and it will at least let them do something

Also I'd try and get a Chaos Sigil for your infantry squads since its a very cheap morale fixer that is quite effect especially in close combat

List looks pretty solid! I certainly woundn't want to go up against it as eldar.

alright guys just wanted to follow up on the outcome of my games this weekend. played both my buddies and won both games! Invisible bloodthirster was VIP, slaying the wraithknight forcing my buddy to concede turn three. Had a close game with my other buddy, jetbike coucil eldar with no wraithknight, but a more experienced player. Close game but i won again with victory points. He killed a ton of my army by shooting but ultimately


Automatically Appended Next Post:
the invisible bloodthirster won the game again, killing the 300+ point council star. Im happy with the outcome guys thanks for the help with the list. And for all you chaos out there, I highly recommend sorcerer cabal with invisible bloodthirster!