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Has anyone of the main factions other than generic Imperial Guard, PDF and that kind of thing ever went renegade and joined the Tau? Like, Space Marines, or Mechanicus who see it as a place for creation if they're already going towards a path of tech-heresy? What about Eldar, who think they could manipulate it and find refuge there?

There is Ad Mech illegally experimenting on Tau stuff if I recall correctly but they got in some serious gak.

Humans join all the time that's how we gain so many worlds and make such rapid progress since many humans want to be treated better than they have it in the IoM. They are often relocated to safe zones and many Tau haters confuse our treatment of free joiners with insurrectionists and others who won't bend the knee so easily. Those are the ones that get sterilized.

@Solar-powered_chainsword: Not to my knowledge. Humans, and numerous minor aliens, have joint but the as far as I am aware no other major faction has.

Of course, discounting the Tau and Humans since they're already established, we're only really talking about the Eldar then since obviously no-one from the Orks, Necrons, Tyranids or Chaos will join, and that leaves Eldar (and we can ignore Dark Eldar) as the only main faction who could theoretically join.

The reason why no Eldar join is probably because the reason most people join the Tau Empire is because they either believe it will make them safer/coerced into it (a lot of minor aliens) or because they want to escape their own regime (humans mostly). The Eldar don't live under so horrific a regime that they want to abandon it completely in droves and, at the same time, are powerful enough to protect themselves and thus the two primary incentives for joining the Empire aren't present. That and their arrogance.

The importance of just plain economics also should be mentioned; many humans and minor aliens acceded into the Empire simply because the Tau seem to have an extremely efficient economic and industrial sector, making access to advanced and convenient technologies commonplace within the Empire unlike within the Imperium and the other less-advanced races. The Eldar, though, have technologies equally suitable to themselves and readily available for themselves, rendering the economic incentive moot to them too.

Feasibly someone from the Mechanicus may want, and may have, joint the Tau Empire, but I don't know if its ever been documented. Of course there is not much attention given to the Gue'vesa in the background, what little there is tends to focus on civilians/PDF/Guard only.

I hope that helped.

The notion that Imperial citizens are all subject to a unified Imperial society of sorts, is a misconception. Each planet is run by it's respective planetary governor, has it's own economical and social structure.

The problem here is that these systems in the Gulf were run by leaders who had become complacent and lacking in faith. Remember: Heresy Grows From Idleness Without the threat of Xenos incursions or a regular Imperial presence, these worlds had little loyalty and in their ignorance, embraced the Alien.

Can we please prevent this from veering off into another discussion about how 'amazing' and 'utopian' a place the Imperium is and everything bad within it is a localized minority which doesn't reflect anything about the Imperium as a whole? I'm already sick to my stomach of the sweeping glorification of genocide, rape, slavery, lobotomy, murder and child murder which exists within the online fanbase of this game.

Regardless of your feelings on the matter the fact remains that the humans defect from the Imperium because they either a) find the regime to despotic or b) believe it to be worth it for the economic factors. Those are the in-universe provided reasons for those defections. Arguing that 'its the Governors fault' doesn't change either of those faults since those Governors are the representation of the Imperium system on those worlds.

 Anemone wrote:
Can we please prevent this from veering off into another discussion about how 'amazing' and 'utopian' a place the Imperium is and everything bad within it is a localized minority which doesn't reflect anything about the Imperium as a whole? I'm already sick to my stomach of the sweeping glorification of genocide, rape, slavery, lobotomy, murder and child murder which exists within the online fanbase of this game.

I have no idea what you are talking about, probably because I don't frequent the forums.

 Anemone wrote:
Regardless of your feelings on the matter the fact remains that the humans defect from the Imperium because they either a) find the regime to despotic or b) believe it to be worth it for the economic factors. Those are the in-universe provided reasons for those defections. Arguing that 'its the Governors fault' doesn't change either of those faults since those Governors are the representation of the Imperium system on those worlds.

The Governors can rule their worlds as they see fit, whatever Imperial system is implemented, if any, is their business. The only requirements are a standing planetary defense force and regular tithe payments.
It's the Governors responsibility to crush any rebellion or uprisings, given that these are trade agreements to complete successions to the Tau, the Governor is directly responsible.

If you want in-universe explanations, the fact is that Planetary Governors established trade for economic gain, thinking that they would benefit directly from it without Imperial interference. This would mean that the Planetary Defense Force, remaining loyal to local government, would be supportive of the Tau already. Foolish that for sheer greed some systems would ultimately sacrifice their freedom.

Solar-powered_chainsword wrote:
Has anyone of the main factions other than generic Imperial Guard, PDF and that kind of thing ever went renegade and joined the Tau? Like, Space Marines, or Mechanicus who see it as a place for creation if they're already going towards a path of tech-heresy? What about Eldar, who think they could manipulate it and find refuge there?

There are Ad Mech in Fire Caste who have joined with the tau forces and are mixing tau and human servitor tech.

Solar-powered_chainsword wrote:
Has anyone of the main factions other than generic Imperial Guard, PDF and that kind of thing ever went renegade and joined the Tau? Like, Space Marines, or Mechanicus who see it as a place for creation if they're already going towards a path of tech-heresy? What about Eldar, who think they could manipulate it and find refuge there?

Various human worlds are now part of the Tau Empire as are voidship crews, Guard regiments and Ad Mech.

I can't see any possibility of an Astartes joining the Empire - unless they stick a mind worm in him like they did with an Inqusiitor.
Same with Sororitas

Eldar - I cant think of a reason that a Craftworld Eldar would join the Empire as such - you could have a diplomatic mission - they did the same to the Imperium, and pathfinders might operate in Tau territory but the Tau have little to actually offer the Eldar apart from distracting their enemies.
Exodites - It would be intriguing for the Tau to come across a Exodite world - make a good story.

Dark Eldar / Pirates - could offer their service as Privateers - but they would likely quickly cause issues.

and of course at least one Genestealer Cult is part of the Empire....

I remember in one of the Marine books that featured the Tau there was a rogue trader's daughter who had sided with the Tau because she had some bad experiences with a Ministorium Priest or an Inquisitor or something.

She later helped the imperium from within the Tau fleet, so some buyers remorse there.

Jefffar wrote:
I remember in one of the Marine books that featured the Tau there was a rogue trader's daughter who had sided with the Tau because she had some bad experiences with a Ministorium Priest or an Inquisitor or something.

She later helped the imperium from within the Tau fleet, so some buyers remorse there.

Also to avoid being disinherited by her brother IIRC - she is a fun character - the book is Scars as the White Scars are prominent.

I've always wondered if Marines would join the tau. Would a more free spirited chapter realize that the imperium is not really helping humanity or the Emperor and join the tau to protect the humans there and overthrow the Imperium to save the emperor?

 Ginsu33 wrote:
Foolish that for sheer greed some systems would ultimately sacrifice their freedom.

...What freedom have they sacrificed? At worst, they've changed one Empire's control for another, and at least the Tau Empire has a decent track record on its treatment of humans.

The only exceptions would be the non-canon ending for the first Dawn of War (As the Tau didn't win that engagement in the fluff, they never actually implemented the hinted sterilization) and the use of Humans as laborers in Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka (which is, given the common condition of laborers in the Imperium, is at worst a sidegrade). Meanwhile, there were instances in that same Warzone book in which Tau forces protected human civilians from IMPERIUM attacks.

I think that's what Anemone is talking about in the slightly rantish post you responded to about treating the Imperium as some sort of utopia. Being a member of the Tau Empire is certainly not necessarily a position of freedom (though there are exceptions - The Kroot are quite independent, being bound mostly by honor and appreciation, and the Demiurg clans that have allied with the Tau Empire also have a fair amount of independence), but your post presumes that being a member of the Imperium of Man involves having freedom, which is generally depicted as equally or more fascist than the Tau Empire.

TheLumberJack wrote:I've always wondered if Marines would join the tau. Would a more free spirited chapter realize that the imperium is not really helping humanity or the Emperor and join the tau to protect the humans there and overthrow the Imperium to save the emperor?

As I understand it, not all renegade Space Marines turn to Chaos - some are exactly as you describe.

Nevertheless, it seems like it would need a level of loyalty that fits through the eye of the metaphorical needle for a Space Marine to remain loyal to the Emperor and humanity (as the ascendant, rightful owners of the universe) while allowing themselves to be subservient to the Tau (who do not share positions of leadership, or really allow input of any kind on what is entailed by the Tau'va guiding the Tau Empire).

I'd put that as "extremely unlikely", especially given the nearly insignificant size/scope of the Tau Empire when compared to the relative rarity of such a specific flavor of renegade marines (who themselves are a rare subset of Marines, who themselves are a rare subset of Imperium forces).

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

TheLumberJack wrote:I've always wondered if Marines would join the tau. Would a more free spirited chapter realize that the imperium is not really helping humanity or the Emperor and join the tau to protect the humans there and overthrow the Imperium to save the emperor?

As I understand it, not all renegade Space Marines turn to Chaos - some are exactly as you describe.

Nevertheless, it seems like it would need a level of loyalty that fits through the eye of the metaphorical needle for a Space Marine to remain loyal to the Emperor and humanity (as the ascendant, rightful owners of the universe) while allowing themselves to be subservient to the Tau (who do not share positions of leadership, or really allow input of any kind on what is entailed by the Tau'va guiding the Tau Empire).

I'd put that as "extremely unlikely", especially given the nearly insignificant size/scope of the Tau Empire when compared to the relative rarity of such a specific flavor of renegade marines (who themselves are a rare subset of Marines, who themselves are a rare subset of Imperium forces).

I imagine it would be something like they work for the Tau sort of as mercenaries like the Kroot, or that they help the Tau out and keep it a secret from the Imperium. Or something like the Soul Drinkers

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Ginsu33 wrote:
Foolish that for sheer greed some systems would ultimately sacrifice their freedom.

...What freedom have they sacrificed? At worst, they've changed one Empire's control for another, and at least the Tau Empire has a decent track record on its treatment of humans.

The only exceptions would be the non-canon ending for the first Dawn of War (As the Tau didn't win that engagement in the fluff, they never actually implemented the hinted sterilization) and the use of Humans as laborers in Warzone Damocles: Mont'ka (which is, given the common condition of laborers in the Imperium, is at worst a sidegrade). Meanwhile, there were instances in that same Warzone book in which Tau forces protected human civilians from IMPERIUM attacks.

I think that's what Anemone is talking about in the slightly rantish post you responded to about treating the Imperium as some sort of utopia. Being a member of the Tau Empire is certainly not necessarily a position of freedom (though there are exceptions - The Kroot are quite independent, being bound mostly by honor and appreciation, and the Demiurg clans that have allied with the Tau Empire also have a fair amount of independence), but your post presumes that being a member of the Imperium of Man involves having freedom, which is generally depicted as equally or more fascist than the Tau Empire.

TheLumberJack wrote:I've always wondered if Marines would join the tau. Would a more free spirited chapter realize that the imperium is not really helping humanity or the Emperor and join the tau to protect the humans there and overthrow the Imperium to save the emperor?

As I understand it, not all renegade Space Marines turn to Chaos - some are exactly as you describe.

Nevertheless, it seems like it would need a level of loyalty that fits through the eye of the metaphorical needle for a Space Marine to remain loyal to the Emperor and humanity (as the ascendant, rightful owners of the universe) while allowing themselves to be subservient to the Tau (who do not share positions of leadership, or really allow input of any kind on what is entailed by the Tau'va guiding the Tau Empire).

I'd put that as "extremely unlikely", especially given the nearly insignificant size/scope of the Tau Empire when compared to the relative rarity of such a specific flavor of renegade marines (who themselves are a rare subset of Marines, who themselves are a rare subset of Imperium forces).

The prolem is the Imperium IS protecting mankind !
It is a fact, stated in the rulebook.
The end of the Imperium is the end of humankind.

Except that is clearly a biased view since the main rulebook is written assuming most players will be playing IoM. In the Tau lore and books its very clear humanity isn't doomed and that is what kind of makes us so threatening because we offer an alternative to the typical IoM worldview.

End of mankind as a political power in space? Almost certainly. End of humanity? Not if the Tau survive longer then the IoM which looks likely.

 godardc wrote:



The prolem is the Imperium IS protecting mankind !
It is a fact, stated in the rulebook.
The end of the Imperium is the end of humankind.

The Imperium of Man protects mankind's dominance of the galaxy (which, despite being in an effectively inevitable pattern of decay and malignancy, it maintains to this day with only Orks having a present claim otherwise).

The end of the Imperium is the end of humankind as we know it, but it isn't necessarily the end of the human species.

Of course, the end of the Imperium would probably result in the end of the human species anyway, given how inconsequentially small the Tau Empire is, and the magnitude of threats the Tau Empire faces (though even then, some of the human species might survive - Necrons and Orks have used humans as slaves/servants in the past, and may well keep enough around for the species to survive).

Even if the Tau could expand, unopposed, before ever encountering more than the tiniest splinter of attention from any of the emerging powers of the galaxy (Necrons, Tyranids, and Orks), they'd still almost certainly be so inconsequentially small that they'd be relatively easy to wipe out anyway.

For the Tau to survive long-term, they must balance on the edge of a mono-knife until they develop sufficiently in technology and manpower, and even that will require near Eldar-levels of diverting monstrously powerful enemies into each other. Though they have a lot of unique strengths in the setting, they're largest weakness is their lateness to the stage of Empire-building. They're the new kids on the block, and that block is currently under the influence of multiple mob bosses with fingers in every pie. Their survival is hinged on being an ignorable threat long enough for the rival mob bosses to off each other and leave a vacancy.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Dark Eldar / Pirates - could offer their service as Privateers - but they would likely quickly cause issues.

Yeah, you can definitely say that. The last time the Dark Eldar offered their help, the Tau paid for it with the population of an entire world being carried away to the Dark City.
I am not sure the Tau would be so welcoming to the Eldar anymore after their "cultural exchance". Not even Tau are that naive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except that is clearly a biased view since the main rulebook is written assuming most players will be playing IoM. In the Tau lore and books its very clear humanity isn't doomed and that is what kind of makes us so threatening because we offer an alternative to the typical IoM worldview.

End of mankind as a political power in space? Almost certainly. End of humanity? Not if the Tau survive longer then the IoM which looks likely.

An alternative that is slavery. Wow. Really great. Not.
It is better to be dead than to be a slave to a vile blue xenos. Tau only care for Tau, they offer no hope or future for Humanity.


Also, the Tau surviving longer than the IoM is highly unlikely. The Tau Empire is in the most dangerous part of the galaxy, the part which has the highest concentration of Necron tomb worlds and is right in the path of the main Tyranid invasion, not to mention the hostile, xenophobic Imperium and a major Ork empire right next door. All of these are threats the Tau can't possibly hope to win against. The Necrons and Tyranids are likely to destroy the IoM as well, but the IoM has the advantage of size. It will simply take longer before the Crons or Nids destroy all of it. The Tau Empire is so small, it will be gone in an instant when they arrive.


As to joining, the Tau, some (low-ranking) AdMech almost certainly have. The Tau have incorporated some Imperial worlds, and every Imperial world has an AdMech presence to keep the tech running. Space Marines would never join, they are too way too brainwashed for that. Eldar would also never join. The Tau have nothing they could possibly offer an Eldar. Like the Humans, they would consider the Tau little more than animals, and in fact, many Eldar will probably remember the time when the Tau were still animals (if an Eldar deigned itself to pay attention to the Tau at all that is).

 Unusual Suspect wrote:


For the Tau to survive long-term, they must balance on the edge of a mono-knife until they develop sufficiently in technology and manpower, and even that will require near Eldar-levels of diverting monstrously powerful enemies into each other. Though they have a lot of unique strengths in the setting, they're largest weakness is their lateness to the stage of Empire-building. They're the new kids on the block, and that block is currently under the influence of multiple mob bosses with fingers in every pie. Their survival is hinged on being an ignorable threat long enough for the rival mob bosses to off each other and leave a vacancy.

Essentially this. If the Imperium of Man was concerned enough about their existence, they'd have wiped them from existence. However, this would cost a fair amount of Imperial manpower present on the Eastern Fringe, which could cost them a foothold in that region. The Empire is dangerous, but containable for now; to the Imperium, a mere stain on the carpet that isn't noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

That being said, the Empire is expanding pretty fast, and is slowly becoming less ignorant of the galaxy's turmoil, which will only mean even greater technological developments.

As for the treatment of human exiles and the Gue'vesa, lore pieces describe it as being their only alternative to being cleansed by the Fire Caste's guns or serving a miserable life as a POW. I think most people would rather take up a Pulse Rifle rather than stare down the barrel of one.

However, the Gue'vesa and the human colonies are "content under their new masters yet none the less apprehensive of Imperial retribution should they face another crusade". They also "have become a respected part of the Tau military in the border regions, where they fill a tactical niche between the barbaric Kroot and the mainstay of Tau armies".

Overall, not all bad, certainly better than what service under most Imperial General's offer.

G.A

Except the IoM got its ass kicked at the end of Mont'ka only the Ad Mech stopped a sweeping advance through the entire gulf with the lighting the gulf on fire.

The largest modern crusade sent to take us down and it lost. We also destroyed a Tyranid hive fleet with a super virus in FSE book. At this rate the Tau just need faster FTL drives and more manpower.

Every time the IoM launches a crusade it underestimates how fast the Tau are advancing. Each crusade is bigger and bigger and failing faster and taking less ground before ceding and retreating. The Tau are exponentially increasing in numbers and resources and the IoM are not able to match that unless they started drawing from about 10+ sectors of space and mobilizing 90% of that to take down the Tau, Which they can't do since they don't have the manpower.

As of the end of Mont'ka the IoM's Damocles Gulf is nearly drained of forces to fight the Tau and forced to go on the defensive from one planet. When the Tau get their new FTL they'll sweep the region. Even letting the Tau have a single new planet means having to fight exponentially more of them. The Tau gaining a few planets would be the equivalent of the IoM gaining fifty thousand.

 Gamgee wrote:
Except the IoM got its ass kicked at the end of Mont'ka only the Ad Mech stopped a sweeping advance through the entire gulf with the lighting the gulf on fire.

The largest modern crusade sent to take us down and it lost. We also destroyed a Tyranid hive fleet with a super virus in FSE book. At this rate the Tau just need faster FTL drives and more manpower.

Every time the IoM launches a crusade it underestimates how fast the Tau are advancing. Each crusade is bigger and bigger and failing faster and taking less ground before ceding and retreating. The Tau are exponentially increasing in numbers and resources and the IoM are not able to match that unless they started drawing from about 10+ sectors of space and mobilizing 90% of that to take down the Tau, Which they can't do since they don't have the manpower.

As of the end of Mont'ka the IoM's Damocles Gulf is nearly drained of forces to fight the Tau and forced to go on the defensive from one planet. When the Tau get their new FTL they'll sweep the region. Even letting the Tau have a single new planet means having to fight exponentially more of them. The Tau gaining a few planets would be the equivalent of the IoM gaining fifty thousand.

I find the "us" and "we" in your posts... strange. I wouldn't make the feelings and justifications of a fantasy faction your own on a more serious level, if that is the level of sentiment you have towards Tau.

Regardless, you're right - the Imperium suffered heavy losses and gained "a healthy new respect for the fighting abilities of the Tau". However, ultimately the victory is to the Imperium, as the Empire got a nasty shock realising how gargantuan the Imperium of Man really is, whereas previously it was arrogant enough to think the galaxy was theirs for the taking. The Imperium could annihilate the Tau Empire, however, they're held back by a number of factors, primarily the threat of the Hive Fleets, which ranks a far greater threat to Imperial space than an Empire with but a few dozen colonies on the edge of known space. Unlike the Tau, Imperial Commanders love holding their ground too - strategically, the tip of the Eastern Fringe is pointless as a whole to the Imperium; it's simply too far away to be able to resupply and command effectively, and with the Tyranids approaching fast from that direction, holding that region of space would only stall an inevitable attack from the Hive Fleets that would simply waste resources, both in defeating the Empire and by attempting to hold back a Tyranid invasion across multiple worlds.

If the circumstances were different, the Tau would be nothing but a distant memory; the Empire may have the technology, the strategies and the willpower of many races combined, but time and time again, the Imperium has proved that might and manpower can overcome any foe in enough numbers, and they certainly have the numbers at hand.

Still, the Imperium's power is also its flaw in many ways - it took a century to assemble the Damocles Crusade, and even if the High Lords of Terra deemed the Empire to be of value to take, it'd still be outweighed by the much more vital battles both in the rest of the Eastern Fringe, and on the key worlds of Cadia and Armageddon, as the cumbersome beast that is mankind tries to keep everything balanced in its favour.

That'll give some time for the Tau to expand exponentially, if GW was to ever progress the storyline of 40k. Right now, however, a pitched battle between the Empire and a smidge of the Imperium's armies would end in the Tau's defeat. Not that that will happen, of course.

G.A

Exactly you don't have the manpower. That's what all that gab boils down to. It's another "When I have all my friends I'll beat you up" thing except you don't have all your friends they're all too busy.

 Gamgee wrote:
Exactly you don't have the manpower. That's what all that gab boils down to. It's another "When I have all my friends I'll beat you up" thing except you don't have all your friends they're all too busy.

"I" don't have the manpower?

I'm not the IoM mate, nor are you the Tau Empire

But yes, that analogy is basically the crux of it. The manpower is available, but not available, really; the Imperium sees the Empire as nothing more than a nuisance - it'd rather leave it for the Hive Fleets to attack than to divert any more time and resources to remove them. The outcome would not be worth the effort, and that's all that matters in Imperial terms.

You can perceive that as a "oh I don't have time for this" dismissal by the Imperium, but unlike someone in real life who says that to avoid an argument they can't win, to a galaxy sprawling empire, that's a win right there. It's saved itself a pointless engagement that it can solve at a later date, if opportunities arise.

The Imperium has chosen to ignore Tau expansions, for now. If GW were to continue the storyline, chances are the Imperium would do one of two things - leave the Empire to the fate of the Tyranids and the ravaging Ork fleets, or wait for an opportunity to launch an enormous offensive to obliterate the Empire, most likely via Exterminatus. That would kill two birds with one stone, finishing the Tau Empire and denying the Hive Fleets valuable biomass.

Your really bad at this talking thing so I'm going to go now. You win by default. Also P.S stop trying to psycho analyse people over the internet it's only going to get people hurt and angry. Your attempts at this say more about yourself than me. :(

 Gamgee wrote:
You're really bad at this talking thing so I'm going to go now. You win by default. Also P.S stop trying to psycho analyse people over the internet it's only going to get people hurt and angry.

Er... okay? Don't get so worked up and personal next time?

Happy to have a reasonable discussion about why you think the Tau can trump the Imperium via PM, if you like

G.A

I'll join in on the argument. I believe that the IoM could destroy the Tau, but I think it is a double edged sword for them. I think that the resources and time they would spend to defeat the Tau would open up the IoM to possible attack by a much greater force than the Tau, and that may at the same time cripple the IoM. So I believe the IoM could destroy the Tau, but the cost would be much to great to do something like that.

 TheLumberJack wrote:
I'll join in on the argument. I believe that the IoM could destroy the Tau, but I think it is a double edged sword for them. I think that the resources and time they would spend to defeat the Tau would open up the IoM to possible attack by a much greater force than the Tau, and that may at the same time cripple the IoM. So I believe the IoM could destroy the Tau, but the cost would be much to great to do something like that.

I think that'd very much be the case, given current times in the Imperium. It seems too much of a grind for such little gain for the High Lords to even consider over more important matters, such as the 3rd War on Armageddon and the 13th Black Crusade.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 TheLumberJack wrote:
I'll join in on the argument. I believe that the IoM could destroy the Tau, but I think it is a double edged sword for them. I think that the resources and time they would spend to defeat the Tau would open up the IoM to possible attack by a much greater force than the Tau, and that may at the same time cripple the IoM. So I believe the IoM could destroy the Tau, but the cost would be much to great to do something like that.

I think that'd very much be the case, given current times in the Imperium. It seems too much of a grind for such little gain for the High Lords to even consider over more important matters, such as the 3rd War on Armageddon and the 13th Black Crusade.

Now that we have reached an agreement, where do you stand on Space Marines joining the Tau?

Two space marine fans reaching a conclusion. No bias there at all. Hahah. They reached the conclusion the Tau would be destroyed as well. Wow. Such an amazing original conclusion and not in any way stereotypical space marine fans. This is probably the funniest hing I've seen today. Like holy gak! Stop the presses and get to facebook and social media. Two space marine fansboys agree that the Tau will be destroyed. Ha Ha. Bravo. Truly the height of societal debate.

And one Tau fan who takes things way too far than they ever needed to go...

 TheLumberJack wrote:


Now that we have reached an agreement, where do you stand on Space Marines joining the Tau?

Wasn't hard to agree on something reasonably written in the lore

But no, Space Marines would never join the Empire. Even renegade Marines would still be xenophobic to say the least - they'd be more likely to join the Chaos Warbands, I reckon.

But of course, the Tau have their ways with diplomacy. Possible, but highly unlikely.

G.A

(directed at Gamgee)...Did they, though? They seemed to come to the conclusion that enough Imperium forces could obliterate the Tau Empire (which is absolutely true, based entirely on scale), but that the Imperium's desperate position on a galactic scale means they won't ever realistically have enough free manpower to actually carry that out.

I think ultimately that Space Marines are going to be a tougher nut to crack, when it comes to swaying a faction to the Tau Empire's cause. Though Space Marines are one of the few forces the Tau almost universally respect on a strategic and tactical level, the effort it would require to actually get them as allies is almost insurmountably high - more than the Tau Empire could afford.

A far better option would be for the Tau to capture/harvest the geneseed of dead marines, "extract" the information of how to implant them into humans from captures servants of the Space Marines, and build their own "Chapter-Cadres" with their own Hypnoindoctrination in place of the Imperium's.

Alternatively, a sufficiently desperate Tau Empire (or a faction thereof) might "encourage" Space Marine levels of biological capability through controlled feeding of various alien DNAs (edit: to Kroot, if that wasn't clear from the context). That will probably be my approach, in the uncertain future when I finally get off my ass and finish my conversions, for a Tau Empire army using Space Marine/30k rules (Primarchs being replaced by exceptional examples from the breeding/feeding program).