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Hey guys, I'm diving back into 40K after dabbling in it about 4/5 years ago. ( so just assume I know nothing)

So anyway I managed to get my hands on a brand new Stormclaw box, but as with all wargames I always struggle with upgrades.
So ill play these small lists until I decide on which of the two armies I want yo expand on so just think of the upgrades in a full fledged army, not these tiny groups.

Any I've done some research but I'm not sure how up to date It all is and also others input and experience is always great.

Space wolves:

5x terminators - For me these guys seem like they should be kitted out for CC. Now do I go full CC, keep them standard or throw some shooting in there? I presume if you want shooting you'll go long fangs or something. Also I have no idea what to equip for CC, I've read a lot of people say different things, like TH arent very good etc so I'd like to know how I should equip these guys.
10x Marines- the boxset says 5 blood claws and 5 grey hunters but I think I'll just go 10 grey. So they from what I can tell are Jack of all trades kinda group.. but what upgrades are worth it? And should I go boltguns or pistols and chainswords? keep in mind I will get a few more units in the future.
Krom is Krom.

Orks :

So the only real choice here are the Nobz.. I'm getting the feeling they are also CC as there are better units for shooting. Do I go 4 big Choppas and one Klaw? Or should I mix it up? (Big Choppas are just awesome looking)

Thanks in advance.

Are you working off of old model collections from 4-5 years ago or are you looking to buy more? A few here and there VS a lot more? How competitive/friendly? Local games/Tournaments, etc?

I'd be getting all new models.

A lot once I decide on which army and learn the rules more. Friendly local games mostly.


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Oh and I just realised the Killa Kanz.. I presume you want these guys to stay back and shoot, which selection would be best for them?

I'll just spout out a couple of lists/concepts that you'll generally see:

Orks:
Speed Freak Lists:
Zhadsnark 'Da Rippa' (Warlord)
MSU Troop Bikers
Nob Biker Deathstar or 5 Deffkopta Deathstar
Multiple HQs, S10 Warboss on bikes and Painboy on Bike (sometimes - Big Mek with 4++ Kustom Mega Forcefield relic)
10man Boyz in Trukks with Rams (or 11man Gretchin, no transport TAX)
5-10man Tankbustas in Trukks with Rams for MSU Tank Hunters
3x5 Meganobs in Bullyboyz Formations in Trukks/BWs (preference)

There are a lot of ways of running Speed Freaks Orks but anything that moves 12" is key. This is the most common "competitive" (or at least optimized) way to run Orks. Personally, I'm more of a fan of the 'new' Orkurion from the newest version of Ghazghull Supplement. I run 2 Cores and add Deffkopta/Artillery to taste.

One last note on the Orks, a lot of people run the Buzzgob's Kustom Stompa since its dramatically underpriced compared to the Codex Stompa. You can also equip it to taste rather than having set weapons. It's more durable and allowed in ITC events and the like. Added Burnas, convert them to Meks, buy more meks, put the 4++ Force Field inside and enjoy.

Space Wolves:
Blackmanes Formation (spam FREE Droppods that all come down Turn1). It's intimidating but very 1-dimensional when it comes to tactics.
Old School TWC star. TWC Fast Attack (equiped to taste) and attached Ironpriests (HQs or Elites slotted) & Battle Leaders/Lords/Wolf Priests/Rune Priests - use in the "Company of the Great Wolf Detachment")
"Get Started: Space Wolves" Formation - TWC Fast Attack, Lord, and 5man Grey Hunters - This formation allows you to run and charge in the same turn. A lot of people like it combo'd with the 'new' Wulfen formation that has a potential of doubling the movemewnt of the TWC unit. 24" movement, then run, THEN charge Turn1. It's incredibly unlikely unless you invest a large amount of Wulfen. Personally, I don't think the lack of options (list-wise) is worth the +D6 run distance. I'd rather sneak in a Scout USR-IC to get the additional 12" movement in the deployment and forgo Turn1 and look to buff up the durability of the star/unit Turn1.
Personally I think the few options listed above are your better 'pure' Space Wolves lists. I'm sure more will elaborate on their preferences!

Please note what I mentioned vary in competitive play and more options open up when you want to run allies. (Primary and best example: Space Wolf HQs on TWC with Tiggy Conclave (Ultramarine Librarius Conclave) and Azreal (Lord of War Dark Angels). This is an all too common deathstar list. There are a lot of variations to the list but they all rely around multiple Battle Brothers.

Thanks for the reply, definitely something for me to think about going forward.

But what I want to know right now is how to correctly equip my current units.

I feel like equipping models always comes down to preference. Some choices are more obvious then others (eg - Scatter Lasers on Eldar Jetbikes).

As for Orks, a lot of players like squeezing in Power Claws where ever they can - where as for me, I keep everything bare bones except my Warbosses. I like MSU orks over toys.

Space Wolves, like any imperial army, should be kited for a purpose. It's pretty common sense when it comes to how to do that. Meltagun, C-Melta. OR Grav, C-Grav, Grav Cannon, etc. I'm not a big fan of any Heavy Weapon in my army except Grav Cannons, but only when it applies to the overall army.

I get that Space Wolves have limited options when it comes to Special/Heavy weapons, this is just an example.

It always depends on your meta. For instance, I haven't ran into vehicles in my personal gaming group, my local meta, or even in my local GT meta. They aren't good atm. But about 1-2 years ago, I had to prepare for an Imperial Knight list every week so I always had meltas sprinkled in.

Equipping your army is always a preference imo. It's something you'll have to test/proxy and find out what you truly enjoy and/or need to bring.

I'm sorry, but the orks in the Strom claw are far from effective at anything. Nobz, while with good stats ,are just a little too expensive, I would use them as nob upgrades for boy squads (there are benefits and debug to useing either pk or big choppa, so use both, have some upgraded with 1 and other), killa kanz are pretty bad this edition (and I love killa kanz ), but if you are gonna run them then do it with either the roket launchers (for anti marines) or grotzookas (for blasting apart blobs of infantry ). The gretchin are actually just fine, they are a objectives camping unit (they are so short that often the opponent can't actual shoot at them due to lune of sight ), as for the special warboss himself, never played him but he does sound good as a warboss you would put in a truck or battlewagon, get him into combat as soon as possible.
As for future ork purchases I would start collecting mekgunz (expansive price wise, but one of our best units), also see if you can collect the old aobr defkoptas or the battle for vedros ones, defkoptas are good and those models are just better looking then the stupid ones on the gw website.

The Wulfen Alpha Hunters double movement is the ultimate but it's not the only opportunity for the Deathpack to drive deep. Bestial Swiftness adds +3 to every movement so 15' move 4-9' re rollable run and 5-15' re rollable charge.
Just fielding Wulfen and TWC is enough to make a lot of people set up on their baseline for fear of the 1st turn assaults.

Thanks. I know the stormclaw Orks are bad but I still want to kit them out.. yeah might use then as Nob upgrades so I'll go Klaws and maybe big choppas.

Yeah I was thinking dropping heavies for the terminators, SW terminators don't seem to come with much options but I'll probably go full CC with them.. just not 100% sure Which are the most effective but I'll do some more reading.


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oh and as for meta I don't really have one right now as I'm traveling too much. So ill kit these out and then buy and do more when I'm settled.

The best option for the nobs is likely to run them as the nobs holding bosspoles+powerklaws in a slugga boyz unit. Big choppas are rarely worth it over PKs except in really small games as the big choppas AP5 isn't going to cut through the exarch/SM sergeant that will inevitably challenge him.

Ok I get you.

But if you put nob with Klaw into a group of boyz his going to get challenged and with the low initiative wouldn't he get killed before taking a swing most time? And then you just wasted 25pts.. and Orks seem to do a lot with those points. whereas big choppa is slighlty less effective but only 5pts.

Of course I have no play experience with these guys, it's just what I'm picking up on looking through the codex and all that.

Jamstrap wrote:
Ok I get you.

But if you put nob with Klaw into a group of boyz his going to get challenged and with the low initiative wouldn't he get killed before taking a swing most time? And then you just wasted 25pts.. and Orks seem to do a lot with those points. whereas big choppa is slighlty less effective but only 5pts.

Of course I have no play experience with these guys, it's just what I'm picking up on looking through the codex and all that.

Klaws are expensive but they are what adds bite to a unit of Boyz, without it all you get is a few S3/4 attacks at Initiative 2 which aren't much of a threat to anything. Adding in some S8/9 AP2 attacks get ves the unit a lot of utility to the unit enabling them to really threaten Walkers, Vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and Infantry of all flavours. The Big Choppa is the light alternative but I would almost always rather a PK. We have Meks in the codex which can be added to Infantry units, they're Characters and are best used to accept that first challenge instead of the Nob so he can swing at the main unit. In a challenge a Nob has two wounds which can help him survive a round in a challenge in he has to be there and hitting at high S low AP means you'll probably kill anything short of a melee HQ - and you'll inflict Instant Death on most of those if you survive to strike blows.

Ok. wasn't too sure about a nobs durability in a challenge was originally thinking to use them as warboss body guards.. so one claw and rest choppas but I guess I'll go the full 3 claws that come with them and other two maybe choppas. Just use them for boyz.

I have a very different view to boyz. I run em naked 12x10 boys (double core for Ork Waaagh-Band Detachment). I use them as objective holders, board control, bubble wrappers. Anything I need them to. With anywhere from 4-40 S4 attacks on the charge, they can kill most threats with weight of dice. Power Klaws are wayyy to pricey for how often they get to swing them. I might consider them if I was running 2x30 with painboys but even that sounds wrong. I'd steer clear of upgrades on boyz. You need your points on models that will do damage rather than on models that might do damage. As I mentioned previously, upgrades and weapon options are always preference when it comes to list building.

Edit: As a "tax" to Orkurion (Waaagh-Band! Detachment) I have to run 2x3 Nobs (2 Cores). This is where I might squeeze in a Big Choppa or two in each squad if I had 5-20 pts to play with - never Power Klaws. A 2 or 3man squad of Nobs with Big Choppas can kill Rhinos/MSU style armies. Worst case scenario, you LOS them and use them as objective grabbers in the backfield. It's pretty easy to LOS 3 models.

Haha I'm getting a lot of different information on these Damn Nobs.. No idea what to do now haha.

Also any advice on the grey hunter and terminator gear?

Jamstrap wrote:
Ok. wasn't too sure about a nobs durability in a challenge was originally thinking to use them as warboss body guards.. so one claw and rest choppas but I guess I'll go the full 3 claws that come with them and other two maybe choppas. Just use them for boyz.

Nobz have WS4, T4 and 2W, the later is the important part for him to survive. Most general MEQ Sargeant level characters (for example, SM Sarge without decent melee weapons) are hitting him on 4s, wounding on 4s, that means for every four swings he can only inflict one wounds, So with his 1-3 attacks he is highly unlikely to kill you in first round. Then you strike back 4-5 S8 AP 2 that will destroy him some of his men.

Of course, if he is a Veteran Sargeant holding a Powerfist, then it is likely that you two will instant Death each other out at the same time. Which doesn't sounds a bad deal, Because your nob is cheaper than his upgraded sargeant . If that is the case, just laugh.


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Jamstrap wrote:
Haha I'm getting a lot of different information on these Damn Nobs.. No idea what to do now haha.

Also any advice on the grey hunter and terminator gear?

For Grey Hunters, try 2 melta guns or 2 plasma guns. Terminators are better to have a couple of TH/SS, and then another guy carrying a heavy weapon, just my 2 cents.

I appreciate the reply, helps a lot.

as for heavy weapon I think my options are flamer or assault cannon.. I'm guessing cannon because if terminators are in range for flamer they'll be assaulting whereas the cannon helps with the longer range dakka..?

I heard chainfists were better than TH?

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Jamstrap wrote:
Ok. wasn't too sure about a nobs durability in a challenge was originally thinking to use them as warboss body guards.. so one claw and rest choppas but I guess I'll go the full 3 claws that come with them and other two maybe choppas. Just use them for boyz.

Nobz have WS4, T4 and 2W, the later is the important part for him to survive. Most general MEQ Sargeant level characters (for example, SM Sarge without decent melee weapons) are hitting him on 4s, wounding on 4s, that means for every four swings he can only inflict one wounds, So with his 1-3 attacks he is highly unlikely to kill you in first round. Then you strike back 4-5 S8 AP 2 that will destroy him some of his men.

Of course, if he is a Veteran Sargeant holding a Powerfist, then it is likely that you two will instant Death each other out at the same time. Which doesn't sounds a bad deal, Because your nob is cheaper than his upgraded sargeant . If that is the case, just laugh.

The comparison between sergeants in melee is a decent one - but it seems a little unrealistic. Boyz have 6+, or a 4+ at best (but way too expensive). That means 10 bolters, or better, will kill the entire squad, including your 31pt Power Klaw Nob. The idea of getting into melee is a nice one but even if the given situation they kill 5man Tactical, or MEQ then easily get blasted off the table.

There will always be disagreements in how models are equipped. Follow your heart.

Also - Chainfists are amazing. Unfortunately, most models that can bring them are sub-optimal. That being said, if you're going to bring Terminators, you might as well equip them with Chainfists over Thunderhammers.

Jamstrap wrote:
I appreciate the reply, helps a lot.

as for heavy weapon I think my options are flamer or assault cannon.. I'm guessing cannon because if terminators are in range for flamer they'll be assaulting whereas the cannon helps with the longer range dakka..?

I heard chainfists were better than TH?

I think for a TAC purpose, heavy weapon would be either Assault Cannon or Cyclone Missile Launcher. Of course, if you know you are fighting Genestealer Cult beforehand, defintely take Heavy Flamers

Yes the Chain fist is better than TH in most cases, with the exception of fighting T6+ MC and GMC, where the TH drop their Inititive for a round while the CF doing no bouns effect, so maybe get some idea of your meta before modelling. Also, I believe you will need a couple of Storm Shield, but remember the Chain fist cannot go with SS on the same model. Em...... Maybe put one storm shield on Heavy Weapon guy, one on a meatshield guy, then the third guy take Storm bolter / combi weapon and Chain fist.

Thanks again. Some more good info for me to ponder over.

it is harder when not having a fixed meta.

Grey Hunters: never ever take plasma pistols.
There are only plasma guns in the box, so not much choice for specials. But it would be preferable to magnetize them.
I would also magnetize one model to switch between chainsword and power axe, though that's not easy if you only have the 2-handed axe from the box. Alternatively use the power sword.

Terminators: full melee is only good when they ride in an assault transport, If you run them on foot, in a drop pod or deep strike them, I would mix them. My setup is: hammer/shield, claw/shield, assault cannon/chainfist, combi-melta/shield and combi-melta/axe

Yeah looks like I might have to wait until I return home to model these correctly and magnetism them.