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If a Trygon Prime becomes a GMC then it would need a 100pt increase, just because of the 12" movement, Stomp, immunity to Instant Death, Poison and Sniper and the base Feel no Pain.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
@Nou, yes I said it and I'll say it again, Nids cant be fix with any "quick" updates, they need a full over haul.

I like some of your ideas, other I feel there are better solutions.


I truly am hugely opinionated that Trygon Prime should be a GMC and nothing else changed to his rules other than GMC update.

And I like the Synapse that was talked about in IB topic, units that need synapse and are in synapse uses the LD of the Synapse model (LD 10) has FnP 6+ also (Models with Synpase has 5+ FnP).

Trygon being GMC does not adress it's useless tunnel digging... But yes, Tyranids should have at least one GMC that is cheaper than 500pts, but I prefer Dimacheron in that role.

And as much as I like LD10 synapse with FNP approach (I even tested some games with Gaunts having FNP 6+ stock, but this change is really so minor increase in practical durability, that I have dropped it in favour of "Without end"), I like the feel of having to manouver between fearless gaunts - just a personal preference. I usually play AGAINST Tyranids, not with them.

As with all "proposed rules" threads, this really boils down to individual playstyles, I don't think for a moment, that I have discovered "the only true way of saving Tyranids".

nou wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
@Nou, yes I said it and I'll say it again, Nids cant be fix with any "quick" updates, they need a full over haul.

I like some of your ideas, other I feel there are better solutions.


I truly am hugely opinionated that Trygon Prime should be a GMC and nothing else changed to his rules other than GMC update.

And I like the Synapse that was talked about in IB topic, units that need synapse and are in synapse uses the LD of the Synapse model (LD 10) has FnP 6+ also (Models with Synpase has 5+ FnP).

Trygon being GMC does not adress it's useless tunnel digging... But yes, Tyranids should have at least one GMC that is cheaper than 500pts, but I prefer Dimacheron in that role.

And as much as I like LD10 synapse with FNP approach (I even tested some games with Gaunts having FNP 6+ stock, but this change is really so minor increase in practical durability, that I have dropped it in favour of "Without end"), I like the feel of having to manouver between fearless gaunts - just a personal preference. I usually play AGAINST Tyranids, not with them.

As with all "proposed rules" threads, this really boils down to individual playstyles, I don't think for a moment, that I have discovered "the only true way of saving Tyranids".

The Tyrgon tunnel will be fixed with the Trygon, and the Prime will inherently get it, we all know its the worst delivery system in game and will be changed.

 Imateria wrote:
If a Trygon Prime becomes a GMC then it would need a 100pt increase, just because of the 12" movement, Stomp, immunity to Instant Death, Poison and Sniper and the base Feel no Pain.

Exactly because of the hazard of such detailed debates I have excluded any actual point cost modifications from my post. As history of "proposed rules" threads I've participated in has proved, it is quite easy to discuss "how any particular unit could be made to have clear purpose and intended way of use", but it is quite hard to agree on exact point cost of any changes. In this particular case I do think, that making it GMC would require a point increase, but I also think, that current Trygon Prime is overcosted (judging on practical application and possible synergies, not "USR list" theoryhammer). So 100pts change is a bit too much IMHO.

And fluff wise it is quite hard to imagine, how exactly would serpent-like creature Stomp exactly? I have a rather funny vision of "headbanging metalhead"

nou wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
If a Trygon Prime becomes a GMC then it would need a 100pt increase, just because of the 12" movement, Stomp, immunity to Instant Death, Poison and Sniper and the base Feel no Pain.

Exactly because of the hazard of such detailed debates I have excluded any actual point cost modifications from my post. As history of "proposed rules" threads I've participated in has proved, it is quite easy to discuss "how any particular unit could be made to have clear purpose and intended way of use", but it is quite hard to agree on exact point cost of any changes. In this particular case I do think, that making it GMC would require a point increase, but I also think, that current Trygon Prime is overcosted (judging on practical application and possible synergies, not "USR list" theoryhammer). So 100pts change is a bit too much IMHO.

And fluff wise it is quite hard to imagine, how exactly would serpent-like creature Stomp exactly? I have a rather funny vision of "headbanging metalhead"

I wouldn't think it would be to many points, Its still T6 3+ save, it can still be killed from Bolters, Heavy Bolter, even S3 can wound it, Grav would kill it fast. It would get Anti poison (not much of that anyways) FnP and Stomp and its MUCH needed 12" movement. Its already Fearless and doesn't have Invuls, it can still only shoot 1 unit and charge that 1 unit as well.

Edit: Spelling.

I understand that 7th ed has GMC and super heavys but I feel like the rules for those unit types are so out of whack powerful. I am not saying those unit types shouldn't exist or that they shouldn't have a boost over standard vehicles/MC but man... stomp is just stupid broken powerful. The LIST of immunities goes a little too far.

I am often hesitant to make anything but heirodules+ into GMC because of it.

That being said, a lot of interesting ideas in your list of stuff. I have a lot to mull over.

 Lance845 wrote:
I understand that 7th ed has GMC and super heavys but I feel like the rules for those unit types are so out of whack powerful. I am not saying those unit types shouldn't exist or that they shouldn't have a boost over standard vehicles/MC but man... stomp is just stupid broken powerful. The LIST of immunities goes a little too far.

And it would be possible to use a Special Rule to either reduce or eliminate some of those advantages, such as limiting Stomp to just one Attack (it's a snake that flops on the ground, after all). The immunities may be a concern, though.

To be fair, if a MC were changed to GMC in the codex, it would be moved to a Lord of War just like the Transcendant C'tan was moved from Lord of War to Heavy Support or all those army Infantry moved from HQ to Lord of War. That would limit them with CADs, but not so much when it comes to old Formations. Which means we would also be looking at altering the Formations after that (not that they don't need it or isn't expected eventually, but just a reminder of keeping aware of ramifications).

 Charistoph wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I understand that 7th ed has GMC and super heavys but I feel like the rules for those unit types are so out of whack powerful. I am not saying those unit types shouldn't exist or that they shouldn't have a boost over standard vehicles/MC but man... stomp is just stupid broken powerful. The LIST of immunities goes a little too far.

And it would be possible to use a Special Rule to either reduce or eliminate some of those advantages, such as limiting Stomp to just one Attack (it's a snake that flops on the ground, after all). The immunities may be a concern, though.

To be fair, if a MC were changed to GMC in the codex, it would be moved to a Lord of War just like the Transcendant C'tan was moved from Lord of War to Heavy Support or all those army Infantry moved from HQ to Lord of War. That would limit them with CADs, but not so much when it comes to old Formations. Which means we would also be looking at altering the Formations after that (not that they don't need it or isn't expected eventually, but just a reminder of keeping aware of ramifications).

I am more inclined to think those unit types need to be rebuilt whole sale. But that is a different discussion and something I am working on in my own home brew game.

GMC isnt bad, Stomp is the problem, Just make it so it can never hit other units its not in Melee with like all normal attacks.

The 2nd problem is they are to cheap. A Trygon Prime being a GMC still be weak compare to a Wraithknight. the Prime being a GMC would honestly be considered a well balanced model for the points if you compare it to other units.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
GMC isnt bad, Stomp is the problem, Just make it so it can never hit other units its not in Melee with like all normal attacks.

The 2nd problem is they are to cheap. A Trygon Prime being a GMC still be weak compare to a Wraithknight. the Prime being a GMC would honestly be considered a well balanced model for the points if you compare it to other units.

Being immune to poison is lame.

I could start a new thread, but this seems like a reasonable place to list my current ideas for the Tyranid Codex. All of this is with 7th ed in mind and trying not to make any change be too big. Also note that I don't play tyranids myself, but I play against them pretty often.

Instinctive behavior to become:

This special rule is always followed, in brackets, by a type: either Lurk, Hunt or Feed, which corresponds to the rule of the same name. At the beginning of each of your turns, all Codex: Tyranids units with this special rule that are outside of the synapse range of any friendly Synapse Creatures must take a Leadership test unless they are: engaged in combat, falling back, have gone to ground or arrived from Reserve this turn. If the test is passed, the unit acts normally during this turn. If the test is failed, the effects of the rule must be followed instead:
Instinctive Behaviour (Feed)
In the movement phase the unit must move towards the nearest enemy unit that it can wound or glance. If the target unit is 18” or more away this unit must run towards it. If the target is less than 18” away, this unit must walk and then attempt a charge.
Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt)
In the movement phase the unit must attempt to move into range and Line of Sight of the nearest enemy that it can wound or glance. In the Shooting phase, the unit cannot Run and must instead shoot at the closest enemy unit that is within range and line of sight of at least one model in the Tyranid unit. If there is no viable target, the Tyranid unit can do nothing during the Shooting phase. The unit cannot charge in the Assault phase.
Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk)
In the Movement phase, the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain, though its models must take Dangerous Terrain tests as normal. The creature must move towards the nearest cover (which can be area terrain or regular terrain). If the unit is already in cover it may reposition in and around the cover as desired.

Tyranid Prime reduced to 80 points.

Genestealers gain Shred or get reduced to 12 pts/model

Hormagaunts swap Move Through Cover, Bounding Leap, Fleet for the Beast unit type. Or reduced to 4 pts/model

Rippers reduced to 12 pts/base

Tervigon moved to Fast Attack/Dedicated Transport. Reduced to 115 points. Replace gaunt spawning and synaptic feedback with capacity 20 and can only hold termagants.

Tyrannocyte moved to fast attack/dedicated Transport. Reduced to 60 points, wounds reduced to 4.

Venomthrope Spore Cloud changed to read: All friendly models from Codex: Tyranids that are within 6" of one or more Venomthropes gain special rules according to the number of Venomthropes in range. One Venomthrope grants the Stealth special rule. Two Venomthropes grant the Shrouded special rule. Three or more Venomthropes grant the Stealth & Shrouded special rules. The Venomthropes do not need to be from the same unit.

Lictor Chameleonic Skin changed to read: A Lictor can arrive from reserves by being placed anywhere on the table which is at least 3” away from enemy models and is also in base contact with terrain. Unlike other units that arrive from reserves, a Lictor may charge on the turn it arrives. Arriving in this manner counts as its movement during the Movement Phase.

Maleceptor reduced to 150 points, S5, T5, W4. Replaces Psychic Barrier with Warp Field (3++). Psychic Overload changed from 'can be manifested 3 times' to 'assault 3'

Shrikes and Sky Slashers removed until models exist.

Raveners reduced to 25 pts/model

Trygon and Trygon prime arrive by deep strike on turn 1 on a roll of 4+

Exocrine increased to 175 points

Toxicrene reduced to 140 points, T5, W4

Swarmlord moved to Lord of War

Sporocyst moved to Fortifications, can purchase 3 for one slot.

I'm still working out what to do with the rest of the codex.

Martel732 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
GMC isnt bad, Stomp is the problem, Just make it so it can never hit other units its not in Melee with like all normal attacks.

The 2nd problem is they are to cheap. A Trygon Prime being a GMC still be weak compare to a Wraithknight. the Prime being a GMC would honestly be considered a well balanced model for the points if you compare it to other units.

Being immune to poison is lame.

Its not Immune, you need 6's to wound.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
GMC isnt bad, Stomp is the problem, Just make it so it can never hit other units its not in Melee with like all normal attacks.

The 2nd problem is they are to cheap. A Trygon Prime being a GMC still be weak compare to a Wraithknight. the Prime being a GMC would honestly be considered a well balanced model for the points if you compare it to other units.

Being immune to poison is lame.

Its not Immune, you need 6's to wound.

And then you have to go through 3+/5+++.

It pretty much IS immune. Super Heavy Vehicles aren't suddenly immune to Haywire.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
GMC isnt bad, Stomp is the problem, Just make it so it can never hit other units its not in Melee with like all normal attacks.

The 2nd problem is they are to cheap. A Trygon Prime being a GMC still be weak compare to a Wraithknight. the Prime being a GMC would honestly be considered a well balanced model for the points if you compare it to other units.

Being immune to poison is lame.

Its not Immune, you need 6's to wound.

And then you have to go through 3+/5+++.

It pretty much IS immune. Super Heavy Vehicles aren't suddenly immune to Haywire.

MANY of those have 4+ or 5+ invuls, many have higher AV (I know some dont) and normally can shot multi units with longer and stronger guns. The is give and Take

But like I said very few armies relay on Poison, its a T6 3+ save model, yes it has a 5+ FnP but it still dies just as fast as a Riptide. It cant get invuls or a 2+ save. Hit it with 8 ap3 and its dead. a devastator squad would cause 2-3 wounds instantly on average. HECK, Grav bikes or Centurions will kill it in 1 turn.

If you are so concerned about Poison then as a DE player, use Diss cannons, DL's or Blasters. they all are Ap2 and s5/s8

Edit: wording

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
GMC isnt bad, Stomp is the problem, Just make it so it can never hit other units its not in Melee with like all normal attacks.

The 2nd problem is they are to cheap. A Trygon Prime being a GMC still be weak compare to a Wraithknight. the Prime being a GMC would honestly be considered a well balanced model for the points if you compare it to other units.

Being immune to poison is lame.

Its not Immune, you need 6's to wound.

Same thing. Defeats the purpose of poison.

Feth GMCs and MCs in this game.

" but it still dies just as fast as a Riptide."

So..... never?

What do you mean defeats the purpose of poison? Poisons purpose is you always wound on a given number. A str 2 gun could still wound on a 6 against a t8 GMC. That would normally be impossible. Every gun with poison always wounds regardless of str/t.

 Lance845 wrote:
What do you mean defeats the purpose of poison? Poisons purpose is you always wound on a given number. A str 2 gun could still wound on a 6 against a t8 GMC. That would normally be impossible. Every gun with poison always wounds regardless of str/t.

Yeah IDK why he is so mad about poison, it still can wound and only DE care about it, Me as DE main, I still feel the same....

Well Nids could care about it. Kind of depends on how you build the nids.

Zustiur wrote:
I could start a new thread, but this seems like a reasonable place to list my current ideas for the Tyranid Codex. All of this is with 7th ed in mind and trying not to make any change be too big. Also note that I don't play tyranids myself, but I play against them pretty often.

Instinctive behavior to become:

This special rule is always followed, in brackets, by a type: either Lurk, Hunt or Feed, which corresponds to the rule of the same name. At the beginning of each of your turns, all Codex: Tyranids units with this special rule that are outside of the synapse range of any friendly Synapse Creatures must take a Leadership test unless they are: engaged in combat, falling back, have gone to ground or arrived from Reserve this turn. If the test is passed, the unit acts normally during this turn. If the test is failed, the effects of the rule must be followed instead:
Instinctive Behaviour (Feed)
In the movement phase the unit must move towards the nearest enemy unit that it can wound or glance. If the target unit is 18” or more away this unit must run towards it. If the target is less than 18” away, this unit must walk and then attempt a charge.
Instinctive Behaviour (Hunt)
In the movement phase the unit must attempt to move into range and Line of Sight of the nearest enemy that it can wound or glance. In the Shooting phase, the unit cannot Run and must instead shoot at the closest enemy unit that is within range and line of sight of at least one model in the Tyranid unit. If there is no viable target, the Tyranid unit can do nothing during the Shooting phase. The unit cannot charge in the Assault phase.
Instinctive Behaviour (Lurk)
In the Movement phase, the unit is not slowed by difficult terrain, though its models must take Dangerous Terrain tests as normal. The creature must move towards the nearest cover (which can be area terrain or regular terrain). If the unit is already in cover it may reposition in and around the cover as desired.

I don't like these changes, while the army would no longer fall apart you still loose complete control over it with all actions effectively automated. There is no fun in that.

Tyranid Prime reduced to 80 points.

That would work

Genestealers gain Shred or get reduced to 12 pts/model

I'd go with the points drop, I think it's a good idea having them weaker than the Cult Purestrains but they should also be cheaper.

Hormagaunts swap Move Through Cover, Bounding Leap, Fleet for the Beast unit type. Or reduced to 4 pts/model

I think everyone (that isn't Tradito) would agree that they should never have been changed from Beasts to Infantry in the first place.

Rippers reduced to 12 pts/base

Is a 1ppb reduction really woth bothering with?

Tervigon moved to Fast Attack/Dedicated Transport. Reduced to 115 points. Replace gaunt spawning and synaptic feedback with capacity 20 and can only hold termagants.

I can't see a point to this, Tervigon's are as slow as any other foot sloggin MC, and removing spawning literally takes away their reason for existence.

Tyrannocyte moved to fast attack/dedicated Transport. Reduced to 60 points, wounds reduced to 4.

Fair enough.

Venomthrope Spore Cloud changed to read: All friendly models from Codex: Tyranids that are within 6" of one or more Venomthropes gain special rules according to the number of Venomthropes in range. One Venomthrope grants the Stealth special rule. Two Venomthropes grant the Shrouded special rule. Three or more Venomthropes grant the Stealth & Shrouded special rules. The Venomthropes do not need to be from the same unit.

I can't see a point in nerfing one of the few decent units in the codex.

Lictor Chameleonic Skin changed to read: A Lictor can arrive from reserves by being placed anywhere on the table which is at least 3” away from enemy models and is also in base contact with terrain. Unlike other units that arrive from reserves, a Lictor may charge on the turn it arrives. Arriving in this manner counts as its movement during the Movement Phase.

An interesting change, could make them pretty dangerous.

Maleceptor reduced to 150 points, S5, T5, W4. Replaces Psychic Barrier with Warp Field (3++). Psychic Overload changed from 'can be manifested 3 times' to 'assault 3'

I don't see why the Maleceptor should be made weaker. You also don't seem to understand how Psychic Overload works, though a Witchfire it does not have a shooting profile and wounds by forcing a Leadership check with penalties. Assault 3 is literraly meaningless without completely changing everything about how this power works.

Shrikes and Sky Slashers removed until models exist.

Removing useful units because they don't have models (and Sky Slasher models do exist, they're from Forgeworld) just pisses people off, a terrible way to deal with them.

Raveners reduced to 25 pts/model

I'd go further, 20ppm, as they need upgrades to really work as is.

Trygon and Trygon prime arrive by deep strike on turn 1 on a roll of 4+

An improvement, but why a 4+, thats still only a 50/50 chance of remotely being worth it's 200+ points.

Exocrine increased to 175 points

Why, with it's short range guns it's hard to make use of it as is?

Toxicrene reduced to 140 points, T5, W4

Why nerf a unit that needs a boost?

Swarmlord moved to Lord of War

Thats it? No attempt to make it worth taking.

Sporocyst moved to Fortifications, can purchase 3 for one slot.

Is there a point to this, other than making it impossible to take a Sporocyst in a Hive Fleet Leviathan Detachment?

I'm still working out what to do with the rest of the codex.

I think you really need to play a few games with Nids just to see why it is these units don't work.

Thanks for the feedback Imateria. It's very helpful.

 Imateria wrote:

I don't like these [instinctive behaviour] changes, while the army would no longer fall apart you still loose complete control over it with all actions effectively automated. There is no fun in that.

I know what you're saying, but this is still a step in the right direction surely? It sounds like you won't be happy until instinctive behavior is removed entirely. I took away some of the negative effects, and some of the 'ran-dumb' rolling. I'm open to suggestions on how to make it less frustrating, but I don't think it should be removed as a concept.

Genestealers gain Shred or get reduced to 12 pts/model

I'd go with the points drop, I think it's a good idea having them weaker than the Cult Purestrains but they should also be cheaper.

Noted, thanks.

Hormagaunts swap Move Through Cover, Bounding Leap, Fleet for the Beast unit type. Or reduced to 4 pts/model

I think everyone (that isn't Tradito) would agree that they should never have been changed from Beasts to Infantry in the first place.

My concern is that being beasts they'd conflict for purpose with raveners. Also they should probably be in Fast Attack then... Hmm.

Rippers reduced to 12 pts/base

Is a 1ppb reduction really worth bothering with?

I was going to drop them back down to 10 pts, but then I realized that they actually got quite a bit of stat increase from the previous codex. They're roughly equivalent in terms of toughness, attacks and wounds as Imperial Guard Conscripts. Would you pick 10 pts or 11 pts? I wouldn't go any lower than that because they're fearless.

Tervigon moved to Fast Attack/Dedicated Transport. Reduced to 115 points. Replace gaunt spawning and synaptic feedback with capacity 20 and can only hold termagants.

I can't see a point to this, Tervigon's are as slow as any other foot sloggin MC, and removing spawning literally takes away their reason for existence.

I could leave them in HQ I suppose, but that just feels weird to me. I get that they're not fast, but I was putting them where nearly all transports go. If it were 6th edition, I'd just mark them as dedicated transports and be done with it. As for the removal of spawning, I ran the statistics. 3d6 stopping on doubles nets you an average of 20-22 termagants for free. So I simply subtracted that value from the cost of the model. I personally hate the whole 'free models' mechanic in all its forms and this has the added benefit of removing some of the pointless rolling from the game.

Venomthrope Spore Cloud changed to read: All friendly models from Codex: Tyranids that are within 6" of one or more Venomthropes gain special rules according to the number of Venomthropes in range. One Venomthrope grants the Stealth special rule. Two Venomthropes grant the Shrouded special rule. Three or more Venomthropes grant the Stealth & Shrouded special rules. The Venomthropes do not need to be from the same unit.

I can't see a point in nerfing one of the few decent units in the codex.

Ah well, the tyranid player in my group specifically asked for a way to have their abilities stack. This was an attempt to achieve that goal. Personally, I think they're a bit too good just now at 45 points for a 12" bubble of shrouded. Needing two to achieve the same result would make them less obnoxious to play against. It's probably worth pointing out that my gaming group isn't a highly competitive 'use all the cheese' group, so tyranids aren't quite as useless as they are in the tournament circuit.

Lictor Chameleonic Skin changed to read: A Lictor can arrive from reserves by being placed anywhere on the table which is at least 3” away from enemy models and is also in base contact with terrain. Unlike other units that arrive from reserves, a Lictor may charge on the turn it arrives. Arriving in this manner counts as its movement during the Movement Phase.

An interesting change, could make them pretty dangerous.

After playing against genestealer cult, the idea of lictors assaulting on the turn they arrive just seems right. In the past I would have argued that it's too powerful, but in the current environment, I really don't think so.

Maleceptor reduced to 150 points, S5, T5, W4. Replaces Psychic Barrier with Warp Field (3++). Psychic Overload changed from 'can be manifested 3 times' to 'assault 3'

I don't see why the Maleceptor should be made weaker. You also don't seem to understand how Psychic Overload works, though a Witchfire it does not have a shooting profile and wounds by forcing a Leadership check with penalties. Assault 3 is literally meaningless without completely changing everything about how this power works.

Ok, I'll admit I got the power wrong, I'll fix that. The point is to make it '3 shots' without needing to manifest 3 times. It's the beast's primary weapon, it shouldn't be that hard to use. Yes, I dropped their toughness by 1. It's a giant exposed brain on legs. How tough should it be?? Besides it's changed from 5++ to 3++. That's a significant boost, and all for the price drop of 55 points.

Shrikes and Sky Slashers removed until models exist.

Removing useful units because they don't have models (and Sky Slasher models do exist, they're from Forgeworld) just pisses people off, a terrible way to deal with them.

Fair enough. I'll reinstate them.

Raveners reduced to 25 pts/model

I'd go further, 20ppm, as they need upgrades to really work as is.

This was just me being conservative. I'm happy to drop them further once I have tested them at this cost.

Trygon and Trygon prime arrive by deep strike on turn 1 on a roll of 4+

An improvement, but why a 4+, that's still only a 50/50 chance of remotely being worth it's 200+ points.

If I were doing a full re-write of the codex or the rule book I'd ensure that you can deliberately put units in the trygon tunnel and have them arrive after the trygon. For now I just wanted to increase the likelihood of things arriving in the correct order.

Exocrine increased to 175 points

Why, with it's short range guns it's hard to make use of it as is?

Personal bias against Assault 6 S7 AP 2 weapons. A very simplistic comparison with the closest equivalent unit I could think of... SM Command Squad all armed with plasma guns. 165 points for 5x rapid fire with gets hot. That's 5 shots instead of 6 at the same range for a 5 point difference. And it's a damn site easier to reduce the effectiveness of that unit than of an Exocrine.
I've removed this change for now. I was also tempted to just reduce it to assault 5 or assault 4 but I thought a 5 point increase was more palatable.

Toxicrene reduced to 140 points, T5, W4

Why nerf a unit that needs a boost?

I don't see why every unit in the codex should be T6 with 5-6 wounds. I'd like to see some actual variety. I thought the accompanying 20 point reduction might have been tempting enough. Looks like I need to go further. I don't think the tyranid player in my group would ever use them anyway (nor would I) simply because he hates the model.

Swarmlord moved to Lord of War

That's it? No attempt to make it worth taking.

One step at a time. I'm not done with this re-write.
How would you feel about giving it Warp Field 3++ at no cost increase?

Sporocyst moved to Fortifications, can purchase 3 for one slot.

Is there a point to this, other than making it impossible to take a Sporocyst in a Hive Fleet Leviathan Detachment?

The point is to make it not take up valuable heavy support slots.

I'm still working out what to do with the rest of the codex.

I think you really need to play a few games with Nids just to see why it is these units don't work.

The Sporocyst should be a Heavy support tho, but a Formation with 2-3 would be better than your idea.

Exocrine is over costed now... it needs to be cheaper not more.

Venomthrope is perfect the way it is, it doesn't need to stack with nids, Stealth/shrouded already stacks.

Tervigon please god no, its fine as is other than S6/T6 it should be S5/T7 make it more of a tank

Hormagaunts need beast, no reason they shouldn't be, it wont "conflict" with other units at all it will ACTUALLY have synergy with them, you have screen the Ravagers with them, they can now keep up with them and you can tarpit a unit or 2 while the "Big hitter Ravager" does the damage.

The Nids book is also missing synergy something that is only being talked about from a couple people, Hormagants being Beast gives more synergy between units.

Edit for spelling

 Lance845 wrote:
What do you mean defeats the purpose of poison? Poisons purpose is you always wound on a given number. A str 2 gun could still wound on a 6 against a t8 GMC. That would normally be impossible. Every gun with poison always wounds regardless of str/t.

The purpose is to be able to spam wound regardless of toughness. Making it poison 6+ takes away the spamming part. GMCs need to cost a lot more for what they get in the game.

Martel732 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
What do you mean defeats the purpose of poison? Poisons purpose is you always wound on a given number. A str 2 gun could still wound on a 6 against a t8 GMC. That would normally be impossible. Every gun with poison always wounds regardless of str/t.

The purpose is to be able to spam wound regardless of toughness. Making it poison 6+ takes away the spamming part. GMCs need to cost a lot more for what they get in the game.

Then grav should be 20-25pts a gun if you want to think that way. Some of the most powerful units arent LoW's and cost cheaply.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
What do you mean defeats the purpose of poison? Poisons purpose is you always wound on a given number. A str 2 gun could still wound on a 6 against a t8 GMC. That would normally be impossible. Every gun with poison always wounds regardless of str/t.

The purpose is to be able to spam wound regardless of toughness. Making it poison 6+ takes away the spamming part. GMCs need to cost a lot more for what they get in the game.

Then grav should be 20-25pts a gun if you want to think that way. Some of the most powerful units arent LoW's and cost cheaply.

I don't understand this. Even with grav priced the way it is, GMCs are way too cheap.

No they are not, I'd rather have many other units than 1/2 the GMC, you mean 1 GMC is undercosted, most are over costed, All the nid ones are for sure.

Just b.c 1 is overcosted and spam doesnt mean they all need a nerf.

Edit: Spelling

All the common GMCs are undercosted. Stormsurges and Wraithknights. The actual GW ones. Forgeworld ones might not be.