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So there is this fear that GW is going to do an end times event in 40k. Do you all think it will happen and if it does what will happen in the fluff and 40k in general?

There's no fear. The two best rumour mongers we've got have said it isn't happening.

Anyone who's still afraid of it is just ill informed.

People have been doom-mongering the 'end of 40K' for well over a decade.


I see no more reason to freak out at the current crop of rumours than when the Eye of Terror campaign was totally for definite this time going to destroy the setting.

Well, I think GW needs to press the reset button to put 40k back on track.

 Azreal13 wrote:
There's no fear. The two best rumour mongers we've got have said it isn't happening.

Anyone who's still afraid of it is just ill informed.

They said it will happen, it will just not destroy the whole lore. so not the same end times that warhammer had, but 40k will be changed.
Rules and Fluff/Background will be different with next summer

For what it is worth, the 40k setting already includes 'the Time of Ending' and has done for some time.

At the moment it seems GW is more interested in filling out the 10k years between HH and The Time of Ending than it is in adding events beyond this current timeline.

I like it; there is lots to explore, and enjoy the Shroedinger's Apocalypse the Time of Ending currently sits at.

nareik wrote:
For what it is worth, the 40k setting already includes 'the Time of Ending' and has done for some time.

At the moment it seems GW is more interested in filling out the 10k years between HH and The Time of Ending than it is in adding events beyond this current timeline.

I like it; there is lots to explore, and enjoy the Shroedinger's Apocalypse the Time of Ending currently sits at.

I really like that, and I hope they keep releasing campaigns and specialist games that fill that 10k year void. Maybe that's why the Magnus model is coming, for some Thousand Sons Space wolf campaign that happened 5000 years ago

Yes, but not any time soon and not as drastic of a change. Just a refresher if needed.

Hopefully something will change.

With the reset of Abaddon's 13th Crusade, there will be an "End Times" for 40K. It won't end in the death of the Galaxy just because there are too many factions with Galaxy type power (Eldar, Necrons, Tyranids). Abaddon will probably get a bunch of Chaos Legions together, Daemons will join him, and he'll go on his 13th Crusade again. Abaddon will get that Star Fortress and underestimate it's power. The surviving Primarchs will come back to do one last, valiant defense of the Imperium. And the Eldar will show up to neutralize the Star Fortress so Abaddon can't destroy the Galaxy, much fighting, and everyone will die. Then, when all seems lost, the Emperor will come back, save humanity, just in time for the entire Galaxy to be swarmed with Warp Storms again, cutting everyone off from each other.

Thus, 8th Edition will be Sigmified, with all new rules as the Warp Storms change the Laws of Reality, with the Emperor creating new Primarchs and Legions, and trying to reunite the Imperium again. Another Crusade by the Emperor to unite mankind and take over the Galaxy. Basically, nothing will really change. Everyone will still be fighting, the Imperium will still be on the precipice of Doom, Chaos and Daemons will still be trying to tip the Imperium over, Eldar will still be a race on the brink of extinction, Bugs will still be trying to eat everything, the Orks will still be happily fighting, etc. etc.

Think about what that would mean for a second: Sure, you would have all the rules for the old factions, just like the "legacy" armies in AoS, but then Gee Dub could start cranking out new Warscrolls of new models and whole new factions. We would see campaign books with new models, units, and detachments, and after a couple campaign books like that, they could release a "codex" with all the units and detachments up to that point. It's brilliant, and probably exactly the way Gee Dub will go.

If you mean End Times = destruction of the universe, upheaval of the lore and death of 90% of named/special characters? No.

Could they eventually do a massive rules change and alter the way the game is played? Sure. I'd welcome that.

 Elbows wrote:
If you mean End Times = destruction of the universe, upheaval of the lore and death of 90% of named/special characters? No.

Could they eventually do a massive rules change and alter the way the game is played? Sure. I'd welcome that.

I mean both I welcome simple rules but not killing the fluff

I think it will happen at some point. Is it something to be scared of? Potentially, if done wrong, but I think overall it will work

G.A

Yep, end times are a comin'

It strikes me that the Fantasy/AoS End Times and reboot was a sort of testbed for what they planned for 40k (the more valuable franchise).

I hope they've learnt their lessons from that test though. Personally, if I was into Fantasy before the End Times thing it would have completely alienated me with the change to AoS.

Fluffwise: 40k is a post apocalyptic setting we already have had our end times. This is what makes 40k so grimdark. All of the "end times" story rumors are just an other page in the horrors that is the dystopian 40k universe.

Game wise: GW might want to reinvent 40k sometime in the future who knows. But I would not expect them to make a radical change in the near future. Sure they could make a 4th, 5th or 5th to 6th edition type of changes but I don't expect them to do a Wfb/AoS kill and switch.

I can't say I've ever considered 40k's setting to be post apocalyptic, because that would suggest mass disorder and tiny groups of survivors. 40k feels like it's on the eternal edge of the apocalypse.

40K *is* the End Times...

 Yarium wrote:
I can't say I've ever considered 40k's setting to be post apocalyptic, because that would suggest mass disorder and tiny groups of survivors. 40k feels like it's on the eternal edge of the apocalypse.

I agree its not quite the Mad max style of post appoc, but it is close enough to a canticle for leibowitz for me.

The Horus Heresy was kind of apocalyptic, I suppose. And before that, the fall of the Eldar (which allowed the formation of the Imperium of Man) was also pretty apocalyptic.

Orks, Eldar, Humans and Necrons all have had their fall of civilisation moment and are now all living a life of civil war like anarchy in the ruins of their past.
Its only the secretly more alien than expected Tau and the horrors from beyond races that are the exception. This makes me wonder what those canned fish really have to hide.

nareik wrote:
The Horus Heresy was kind of apocalyptic, I suppose. And before that, the fall of the Eldar (which allowed the formation of the Imperium of Man) was also pretty apocalyptic.

Before the fall of the eldar, man was already among the stars, ruled by a federation of planets, during what later ages would call the dark ages of technology. STCs were everywhere, and humans were protected by the men of iron, sentient machines that crushed the enemies of humanity. They controlled an area roughly the size of the current IoM, which is what the emperor would reconquer during the great crusade. The eldar didn't allow the humans to expand, they didn't have a choice, and while they were certainly rotting from within at the time, they were not fallen yet. Two things ended that, the age of strife in which the men of iron (surprise surprise) rebelled against the humans, and then the birth of slanesh and the creation of the eye of terror, which isolated every human planet.

If some parts of that seem familiar, it's because that's the trajectory the tau are on, with their heavy reliance on AI, technological savvy and expansionist tendencies.

 Grimgold wrote:

nareik wrote:
The Horus Heresy was kind of apocalyptic, I suppose. And before that, the fall of the Eldar (which allowed the formation of the Imperium of Man) was also pretty apocalyptic.

Before the fall of the eldar, man was already among the stars, ruled by a federation of planets, during what later ages would call the dark ages of technology. STCs were everywhere, and humans were protected by the men of iron, sentient machines that crushed the enemies of humanity. They controlled an area roughly the size of the current IoM, which is what the emperor would reconquer during the great crusade. The eldar didn't allow the humans to expand, they didn't have a choice, and while they were certainly rotting from within at the time, they were not fallen yet. Two things ended that, the age of strife in which the men of iron (surprise surprise) rebelled against the humans, and then the birth of slanesh and the creation of the eye of terror, which isolated every human planet.

If some parts of that seem familiar, it's because that's the trajectory the tau are on, with their heavy reliance on AI, technological savvy and expansionist tendencies.

The tau is such a minuscule empire that their fall would have little impact on the wider Galaxy. I personally think the fall of the tau will probably stem from the Farsight enclaves. But yeah, the tau are a tiny factor in the setting

 Grimgold wrote:

nareik wrote:
The Horus Heresy was kind of apocalyptic, I suppose. And before that, the fall of the Eldar (which allowed the formation of the Imperium of Man) was also pretty apocalyptic.

Before the fall of the eldar, man was already among the stars, ruled by a federation of planets, during what later ages would call the dark ages of technology. STCs were everywhere, and humans were protected by the men of iron, sentient machines that crushed the enemies of humanity. They controlled an area roughly the size of the current IoM, which is what the emperor would reconquer during the great crusade. The eldar didn't allow the humans to expand, they didn't have a choice, and while they were certainly rotting from within at the time, they were not fallen yet. Two things ended that, the age of strife in which the men of iron (surprise surprise) rebelled against the humans, and then the birth of slanesh and the creation of the eye of terror, which isolated every human planet.

If some parts of that seem familiar, it's because that's the trajectory the tau are on, with their heavy reliance on AI, technological savvy and expansionist tendencies.

Is there any difference between Tau tech and the men of iron?

 TheLumberJack wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:

nareik wrote:
The Horus Heresy was kind of apocalyptic, I suppose. And before that, the fall of the Eldar (which allowed the formation of the Imperium of Man) was also pretty apocalyptic.

Before the fall of the eldar, man was already among the stars, ruled by a federation of planets, during what later ages would call the dark ages of technology. STCs were everywhere, and humans were protected by the men of iron, sentient machines that crushed the enemies of humanity. They controlled an area roughly the size of the current IoM, which is what the emperor would reconquer during the great crusade. The eldar didn't allow the humans to expand, they didn't have a choice, and while they were certainly rotting from within at the time, they were not fallen yet. Two things ended that, the age of strife in which the men of iron (surprise surprise) rebelled against the humans, and then the birth of slanesh and the creation of the eye of terror, which isolated every human planet.

If some parts of that seem familiar, it's because that's the trajectory the tau are on, with their heavy reliance on AI, technological savvy and expansionist tendencies.

Is there any difference between Tau tech and the men of iron?

The difference is mostly in regard to sophistication - the Tau have only just recently developed AI that resembles true sentience (found in the cutting-edge Ghostkeel Battlesuit), with Drone AI more closely resembling fairly broad (but still limited) pre-programmed capabilities with the ability to somewhat broaden their efficiency through a shared network/hivemind.

The Tau nevertheless have a long way to go before they're even remotely comparable to Dark Age of Technology products.

They may have some ways to go, but they are going down that path much faster than the humans did. Also Networked drones approach sentience in large enough groups. The earth caste has rarely ever been concerned about the morality or long term consequences of what they produce, and the fire caste is always pushing them for better and stronger weapons to be used in their constant war of expansion. It's a very dangerous combination, that the ethereal cast are not doing much to keep in check.

Ultimately the problem seems to be that true AI can be corrupted by chaos, as the men of Iron created from the STC on Menazoid Epsilon were corrupted (and possibly the original men of iron). It shouldn't be too surprising since chaos can corrupt machines like tanks and bolters, and without the defenses a soul could provide, it seems AI are very easily corrupted. The only Race with a way around this seem to be the Necrons, as their bodies are proof against chaos corruption (probably a necessary feature for fighting the old ones), as are their canoptek servants.

If 40k does get a fast forward in the timeline, I'd love to see the far sight enclaves as the last remaining Tau, who are locked in a desperate war with the AI created by the Tau still loyal to the ethereals. Which are now a new faction unto themselves and are a large threat to every one.

Warp presence is strongly correlated to the strength of your soul in a 40k universe right ? And we know that the tau have almost no presence at all.

Could this mean that tau society is really some sort of brave new world style sterile soul less "utopian" society.

 Grimgold wrote:

nareik wrote:
The Horus Heresy was kind of apocalyptic, I suppose. And before that, the fall of the Eldar (which allowed the formation of the Imperium of Man) was also pretty apocalyptic.

Before the fall of the eldar, man was already among the stars, ruled by a federation of planets, during what later ages would call the dark ages of technology. STCs were everywhere, and humans were protected by the men of iron, sentient machines that crushed the enemies of humanity. They controlled an area roughly the size of the current IoM, which is what the emperor would reconquer during the great crusade. The eldar didn't allow the humans to expand, they didn't have a choice, and while they were certainly rotting from within at the time, they were not fallen yet. Two things ended that, the age of strife in which the men of iron (surprise surprise) rebelled against the humans, and then the birth of slanesh and the creation of the eye of terror, which isolated every human planet.

If some parts of that seem familiar, it's because that's the trajectory the tau are on, with their heavy reliance on AI, technological savvy and expansionist tendencies.

The Imperium was isolated long before the Fall of the Eldar by warp storms, not the birth of Slaanesh. In fact, it was the birth of Slaanesh and creation of the Eye of Terror that basically released the pressure valve on these warp storms and allowed the Emperor to embark on the Great Crusade.

Personally, I think AoS and the end times were a hail mary from GW.

Fantasy was dying and GW needed to do something drastic to attract new players, so they upheld the game, they made it simple to attract to kids and teenagers who want a one shot johnny game to play a few times.

Theres an awesome Tabletop Minions video about it!

I don't think 40k needs that, 40k is doing very good so I doubt that they would do it for the hell of it. It seems pointless.

about taht time for this thread again i see.

Shot answer yes

Long answer no

There will be one, but not to the extent of AoS because GW Learned, that was a really really dumb idea.