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Looking for some list critiques. I'm trying to center on my final tournament list for Adepticon.

So, my list needs to be able to handle three primary threats as I see it.
1) Psykers
2) Flyers
3) Super Heavies and Gargantuan Creatures


++ Space Marines: Codex (2015) (SM Gladius Strike Force) ++

Chapter Tactics [Ultramarines]

+ Core +

'Battle Demi Company *
····Assault Squad [2x Flamer, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Captain
········Captain
············Cataphractii Terminator Armour [Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer]
····Devastator Squad [3x Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta]

'Battle Demi Company *
····Assault Squad [2x Flamer, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Chaplain
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Crozius Arcanum]
····Devastator Squad [4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

+ Command +

'Librarius Conclave *
····Chief Librarian Tigurius [Bolt Pistol, Rod of Tigurius]
····Librarian [Mastery Level 1]
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Force Axe]
····Librarian [Mastery Level 1]
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Force Axe]

+ Auxiliary +

'Storm Wing
····Stormraven Gunship [Four Stormstrike Missles, Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
····Stormtalon Gunship [Skyhammer Missle Launcher, Twin-linked Assault Cannon]
····Stormtalon Gunship [Skyhammer Missle Launcher, Twin-linked Assault Cannon]

First off, we have an Ultramarines list that centers around a psychic death star in the form of Grav-Devs with a conclave, back up by the stormwing.

Pros
1)Tigurius allows for greater chances of getting my powers, and has reserve manipulation
2) Good chance of powerful psychic unit capable of handling most threats
3) Anti Flyer capabilities

Cons
1) Small model count for BC
2) Large amount of points focused in two single units
3) Specialist weapons also focused into certain units and not spread out


++ Space Marines: Codex (2015) (SM Gladius Strike Force) ++


Chapter Tactics [White Scars]

+ Core +

'Battle Demi Company *
····Assault Squad [2x Flamer, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Command Squad [Mount on Space Marine Bikes]
········Apothecary [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Narthecium]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Veteran [Bolt Pistol, Grav-gun, Melta Bombs]
········Veteran [Bolt Pistol, Grav-gun, Melta Bombs]
········Veteran [Bolt Pistol, Grav-gun, Melta Bombs]
········Veteran [Bolt Pistol, Grav-gun, Melta Bombs]
····Devastator Squad [Armorium Cherub, Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, 4x Space Marines]
········Rhino [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum]
····Kor'sarro Khan [Bolt Pistol, Moonfang]
········Moondrakkan [Twin-linked Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta, Melta Bombs]

'Battle Demi Company *
····Assault Squad [2x Flamer, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Chaplain
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Crozius Arcanum, Space Marine Bike]
····Devastator Squad [Armorium Cherub, Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, 4x Space Marines]
········Rhino [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

+ Command +

'Librarius Conclave *
····Librarian [Mastery Level 2]
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Space Marine Bike]
····Librarian [Mastery Level 2]
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Space Marine Bike]
····Librarian [Mastery Level 2]
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Space Marine Bike]

+ Auxiliary +

'10th Company Task Force *
····Scout Squad [4x Boltgun, 4x Scouts]
········Scout Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Scout Squad [4x Boltgun, 4x Scouts]
········Scout Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Scout Squad [4x Boltgun, 4x Scouts]
········Scout Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

White Scars list with the Khan

Pros
1) highly mobile
2) mobile and hard hitting psychic Death Star
3) high MSU with scout

Cons
1) zero anti-flier
2) reliance on psykers unit with reduced chances of getting desired powers

++ Space Marines: Codex (2015) (SM Gladius Strike Force) ++

Chapter Tactics (Raptors)

+ Core +

'Battle Demi Company *
····Assault Squad [2x Flamer, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Captain
········Captain
············Cataphractii Terminator Armour [Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer]
····Devastator Squad [Armorium Cherub, 2x Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Lascannon]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

'Battle Demi Company *
····Assault Squad [2x Flamer, 4x Space Marines]
········Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]
····Chaplain
········Power Armour [Bolt Pistol, Crozius Arcanum]
····Devastator Squad [2x Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, 4x Space Marines]
········Rhino [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Lascannon]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Meltagun, 4x Space Marines]
········Razorback [Twin-linked Lascannon]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]
····Tactical Squad [Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, 4x Space Marines]
········Rhino [Storm Bolter]
········Space Marine Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Boltgun]

+ Auxiliary +

'Storm Wing
····Stormraven Gunship [Four Stormstrike Missles, Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter]
····Stormtalon Gunship [Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Lascannon]
····Stormtalon Gunship [Twin-linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Lascannon]

++ Officio Assassinorum: Dataslate (2014) (Officio Assassinorum Detachment) ++


Culexus Assassin [Animus Speculum, Etherium, Psyk-out Grenades]

Raptor List

Pros
1) Army wide scout
2) large number of special weapons spread out thoroughly
3) anti-flyer abilities

Con
1) no psykers
2) lowest model count

I tried to read your list but it was too schitzo. Maybe it just me, but could you modify the post to present your list in more simple way. Like squad size, name and upgrades. For example 5man tactical squad with meltagun in a drop pod. Look at other people do it. That battlescribe of whatever layout is horror to eyes atleast when viewing with a phone.

That would be because it is 3 separate lists for starts, but I went a hold and bolded the squad names and list titles to help you. Other than that I feel complexity is needed, because I am looking for some thorough critiquing.

Like the 3d list best. Its similar what I play myself but without culexus and with more stuff. You should prob. Give the captain an auspex and the grav sarg a combi grav. Also see if you can add some extra bodies. It's a great unit vs tau but you should survive the overwatch. 3/4 spare guys to LOS! Some non ap3 shots. Or even ap3 if you have cover are golden.

Thanks, I agree, the third list feels the most overall balanced, and yeah dropping a couple weapons and upping the bodies in the Captains squad is a good idea plus an auspex to reduce cover.

Other bonus is it's the least amount of painting I'll need to do.

TheArmorOfContempt wrote:
Thanks, I agree, the third list feels the most overall balanced, and yeah dropping a couple weapons and upping the bodies in the Captains squad is a good idea plus an auspex to reduce cover.

Other bonus is it's the least amount of painting I'll need to do.

The third list is really the only option. A libcon is almost useless in a gladius and doesn't actually do much for stopping other psychic. Culexus is WAY better. Second, white scars chapter tactics are the meta way to run gladius. Not the only way, just thought you should be aware.

I don't know if useless is right, but I understand the hazards of the points sink.In the early lists the LibCon is there to essentially keep the Gravstar alive whether through Invisibility against shooting or going for the reroll armor save power against more melee focused enemies.

Are you suggesting Scars for the third list for the Hunter's Eye? Doing this means no Khan as Warlord, which means no scout on my transports. I can see this being a worthwhile trade to get hit and run, which could keep my Grav-Devs alive if they get caught in combat.

I feel like the Grav-Star is out of place in the full Battle Co, which is otherwise something that I think relies on redundancy and distributed threats. UM Battle Co IMO is best when you spread the Specials (Grav Cannons) around throughout the army, instead of focusing your hitting power into one unit.

Like others have said, I think the 3rd option is your best so far.

Thanks, hard choices, I am getting advice from different corners. I do understand the rationale of keeping my hard hitting stuff spread out, but I am unsure how well this will work on the table. The downside of not having your army finished is not being able to get some playtesting in against more formidable lists. If the first list is considered a no-go I can't think of a justifiable reason to run Ultramarines tactics using the other lists, the Gladius Formation and Demi-Companies give plenty of doctrines on their own, no need to have another set.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I feel like the Grav-Star is out of place in the full Battle Co, which is otherwise something that I think relies on redundancy and distributed threats. UM Battle Co IMO is best when you spread the Specials (Grav Cannons) around throughout the army, instead of focusing your hitting power into one unit.

Like others have said, I think the 3rd option is your best so far.

Actually it's not really a star. You have to take a captain and devestators anyway. Cataphractii captain makes the devs snp. Taking 4 grav cannons + captain os haddly a star....but it's a great unit from a dp and needs a lpt of attention to remove. .. which means the rest of the company goes unmolested.

Re: chapter tactics. I don't think UM is very good as you're already getting 4 doctrines. I use salamanders because I play them. But scars without kan (and with eye) should be great. Giving all your small teams h&r means you can save a couple of guys jow and than meaning your enemy needs to spend another turn chasing them (or you cap obj.)

I don't think ct matter that much tbh. I'd take scars just for the eye.

If you're doing centurions or drop pod devs tbe libcon works, my bad for skimming lol. That said, UM CT and centurion/dev 'Star' REALLY lends itself to full null deploy drop pods. Something to think about.

ERJAK wrote:
If you're doing centurions or drop pod devs tbe libcon works, my bad for skimming lol. That said, UM CT and centurion/dev 'Star' REALLY lends itself to full null deploy drop pods. Something to think about.

Unfortunately building and painting that many pods would be time consuming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Fruzzle wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I feel like the Grav-Star is out of place in the full Battle Co, which is otherwise something that I think relies on redundancy and distributed threats. UM Battle Co IMO is best when you spread the Specials (Grav Cannons) around throughout the army, instead of focusing your hitting power into one unit.

Like others have said, I think the 3rd option is your best so far.

Actually it's not really a star. You have to take a captain and devestators anyway. Cataphractii captain makes the devs snp. Taking 4 grav cannons + captain os haddly a star....but it's a great unit from a dp and needs a lpt of attention to remove. .. which means the rest of the company goes unmolested.

Re: chapter tactics. I don't think UM is very good as you're already getting 4 doctrines. I use salamanders because I play them. But scars without kan (and with eye) should be great. Giving all your small teams h&r means you can save a couple of guys jow and than meaning your enemy needs to spend another turn chasing them (or you cap obj.)

I don't think ct matter that much tbh. I'd take scars just for the eye.

Yeah, Ultras are only really viable if I want to run a Grav-Star/Conclave around Tigurius, and unfortunately without Hit n Run they could find themselves bogged down really easily. I think I'll stick with Scars and run the risk of enemy air, atleast the command squad with grav guns and conclave on bikes can escape if they get in a bind.