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I just got to play against the new Genestealer cult army for the first time. The first thing I noticed? Well apparently Genestealers are Orks +1. They literally took old Ork rules and gave them to genestealers. The most blatant rip off is the ram that they get...Its a friggin Deff Rolla, wtf?

Genestealer hybrids? 8pts that is literally an ork boy who for 2 extra points gets +1 strength, +1 BS, +1LD +1 Save and Higher Initiative....

beyond that though the game was a blast. Between his units bouncing around the board via cult rules and my Grotzookas going to town on his models it was a lot of fun. Ironically Genestealers cults biggest weakness (from what little I saw) is killing vehicles, which was great for me because i brought a lot of wagonz and Kanz

Anyone else got an opinion on these little scuttely buggers?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
*Side Note: My Killa Kanz in the 2nd game hit the mother load. Best hit results ever for me, 6 Grotzookas hit his cultist unit of 20ish models hiding in ruins. I managed to get 69 hits and 62 wounds. It was ridiculous.

Over 10 hits per small blast? Monstrous.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Over 10 hits per small blast? Monstrous.

Grotzookas have 2 blasts each.

Cults were very well designed. The new Ork codex wasn't.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Cults were very well designed. The new Ork codex wasn't.

I feel a lot of the ideas for the new Ork codex were used instead to flesh out this codex. The Genestealer Deff Rolla really ticked me off though. Our deff rolla went from D6 S10 hits and D6 more if you death or gloried and D6 S10 hits against vehicles when you rammed to doing D3 S10AP4 hits against a unit ONLY if they death or gloried and I believe it doesnt work at all against vehicles now.

The stealer one was the old version of the deff rolla just at D3 instead of D6 and it allowed another D3 if they Death or gloried. It is such a blatant rip off.

We all know the Rockgrinder is what a Deff Roller should be, but how on earth do you equate an Acolyte to an Ork Boy? They're exactly what you'd expect a human crossed with a Genestealer would be.

So if I'm catching your drift here, you're saying that because GSC have an item akin to a Deff Rolla on one of their vehicle types, they're a rip off of the Ork Codex?

Also I wasn't aware that Hybrids were T4, like Ork Boyz are. We talking Acolytes or Neophytes, or both?

As much as I've complained in the past that the change to Furious Charge ruined the Orks in the assault phase, I don't see how Acolytes make that any worse based on the 2 extra points they cost giving them the +1 strength that you'll get anyway when you charge with any Ork unit, the +1 BS that Orks make up for in weight of fire and almost everything being an Assault weapon, and the +1 save that frankly makes no difference in most scenarios.

This isn't to say the Ork codex is not bad by the way - I just think this comparison to Orks with GSC is a little underdeveloped, at least with what you've given us.

G.A

 General Annoyance wrote:
So if I'm catching your drift here, you're saying that because GSC have an item akin to a Deff Rolla on one of their vehicle types, they're a rip off of the Ork Codex?

Also I wasn't aware that Hybrids were T4, like Ork Boyz are. We talking Acolytes or Neophytes, or both?

As much as I've complained in the past that the change to Furious Charge ruined the Orks in the assault phase, I don't see how Acolytes make that any worse based on the 2 extra points they cost giving them the +1 strength that you'll get anyway when you charge with any Ork unit, the +1 BS that Orks make up for in weight of fire and almost everything being an Assault weapon, and the +1 save that frankly makes no difference in most scenarios.

This isn't to say the Ork codex is bad by the way - I just think this comparison to Orks with GSC is a little underdeveloped, at least with what you've given us.

G.A

It is very under developed I only managed 2 games and the person playing against me was constantly checking his rule book and for parts of the battle I had to remind him of rules he had told me about earlier.

As far as comparing an ork boy to the GSC, I just checked and apparently he was cheating a bit They are T3 not T4. Like I said relatively new player so he probably got them confused with something else.

So they lose 1 Toughness but gain +1S (which matters, especially if the unit is charged or EVERY round after the 1st) They have better BS, they can take a plethora of good CC weapon in the unit (not on a Sergeant style model, so it can't be challenged out) they have higher initiative, higher leadership and a better save....ohh and they come stock with rending AND Cult Ambush which is a better form of scout/infiltrate. Also they can take a 10pt upgrade to give themselves WS5. And they can do "Return to the Shadows" which is not to bad, but really good when combined with Cult ambush, possibly making them surprise assaults throughout the game.

You get that model for 8pts compared to an Ork at 6pts who has higher toughness, lower S, I, LD, Armor, BS and a special rule that lets you reroll 1 die when charging and a rule that lets you kill D6 of your own models to help pass morale checks.

Its a bit wonky to me that is all.

Genestealer hybrids? 8pts that is literally an ork boy who for 2 extra points gets +1 strength, +1 BS, +1LD +1 Save and Higher Initiative....

What you are actually saying is that GSC are op. Because most of your post points out all the differences, not the similarities.
They will play similar however, considering they're both armies that want to get into combat

I just realised there was a pretty bad typo in my post - I mean to say "this isn't to say that the Ork codex is not bad" (I do think it's pretty bad). Anyways,

SemperMortis wrote:
It is very under developed I only managed 2 games and the person playing against me was constantly checking his rule book and for parts of the battle I had to remind him of rules he had told me about earlier.

To be fair, chances are you played against the majority of the units available in the GSC codex, if not all of them. But much like how the GSC codex is fairly underdeveloped, so is the concept as a whole that they're either akin to Orks or are "Orks done better". Certainly the idea can be drawn clearly from the Acolytes, but I think it's lacking ground when you look at the roles of each unit within CC and how they play overall. Acolytes seem to have the upper hand in CC on their own, but Boyz are not only cheaper (by 2 points, sure, but it adds up), they can also take decent ranged weapons, and are also tougher when it comes to taking ranged fire. T4 and a 6+ save is immensely better over T3 and a 5+ save.

As far as comparing an ork boy to the GSC, I just checked and apparently he was cheating a bit They are T3 not T4. Like I said relatively new player so he probably got them confused with something else.

So they lose 1 Toughness but gain +1S (which matters, especially if the unit is charged or EVERY round after the 1st) They have better BS, they can take a plethora of good CC weapon in the unit (not on a Sergeant style model, so it can't be challenged out) they have higher initiative, higher leadership and a better save....ohh and they come stock with rending AND Cult Ambush which is a better form of scout/infiltrate. Also they can take a 10pt upgrade to give themselves WS5. And they can do "Return to the Shadows" which is not to bad, but really good when combined with Cult ambush, possibly making them surprise assaults throughout the game.

Acolytes may have better BS, but as far as I know, they are typically geared for CC, and thus do not have many potent ranged weapons to offer. In fact, I believe they only have access to Autopistols and Hand Flamers, and only one of those is remotely deadly when 5 of them are equipped with them. As for the CC weapons themselves, do you know how much they might cost? Also, how may they affect how many attacks the squad gets? Do Acolytes have more than 1 attack base?

I hear the problem with Cult Ambush and Return to the Shadows though. Personally I think GSC should pay a bit more for those. Overall though, I think they will function quite differently to a mob of Boyz. They may potentially be better than Ork Boyz, but I don't think they're exactly "Orks +1" if that makes sense.

If Boyz had the 4th ed version of Mob Rule, I think there would be a much more level playing field between them. Such are the times.

G.A