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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 15:14:06
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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defwolf wrote:Why are many planets without more than one type of terrain? Caliban for example is a forest world. No mention of any other terrain in the books I've read. Fenris is the same. Thematics, ignorance and or lazyness. Real planets do not have just one terrain type. All planets have some gradients of environmental conditions even if it is just mainly barren rock. Take a look at mars, mars isn't just a homogenious heap of red dust is it. There are ice patches, canyons, hills, extremely high mountains, impact craters etc. with all their own temperature ranges and environments. Things get even more complex when you add life, since life will always diversify if there are those gradients present. But I have to say that not all books are this monotone. The few books that I have read about mars actually feature some different environments.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/09 15:14:15
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 16:54:15
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Psienesis wrote:defwolf wrote:Why are many planets without more than one type of terrain? Caliban for example is a forest world. No mention of any other terrain in the books I've read. Fenris is the same.
Take a look at our own solar system. Earth is the only planet with rich bio-diversity. Everything else is either a gas giant or a barren rock (either melting or frozen solid).
Going by that, then Earth is really unique then. Unique in that they have rich bio-diversity and life, especially intelligent life on it. That said, Didn't Ultramar have 2 polar caps so they are not just an ice planet so it has bio-diversity as well. It's just the authors who make a picture in their books that make it look like the planets have on diversity and that's it. Now we are getting off topic. It would make a great topic to discuss though.
As for the warp working only in the Milky way galaxy, I can't see it. It either works in the entire universe or it doesn't. What makes a galaxy make the warp work only in its self? Just imagine if the Tyranids could use the Warp to travel. Now that would be really scary for the Milky way galaxy. Thing is, the Milky way galaxy is still freaking huge. I still can't see the Tyranids coming to the Milky way galaxy without the warp or warps speed technology let alone travel the stars without any kind of this power as well. With the stories 40K are telling they are really making the scale of 40K really small when in fact it should be huge but really does seem small and insignificant.
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 18:05:41
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Davor wrote:As for the warp working only in the Milky way galaxy, I can't see it. It either works in the entire universe or it doesn't. What makes a galaxy make the warp work only in its self? Just imagine if the Tyranids could use the Warp to travel. Now that would be really scary for the Milky way galaxy. Thing is, the Milky way galaxy is still freaking huge. I still can't see the Tyranids coming to the Milky way galaxy without the warp or warps speed technology let alone travel the stars without any kind of this power as well. With the stories 40K are telling they are really making the scale of 40K really small when in fact it should be huge but really does seem small and insignificant.
Warp is everywhere. But apart from chaos nobody can really USE the warp for going besides our own galaxy.
Eldar? They would be eaten alive there. They use webway for a reason. Webway isn't same as warp and is artificial creation by old one. It goes where old ones BUILT it go. Did old ones build any gates to other galaxies? Seemingly not.
Humans? They depend on astronomicon for SAFE travel. Astronomicon doesn't cover even our galaxy(it runs short on eastern side) so obviously it's not going to reach to other galaxies. Emperor has godlike powers but clearly he is at limits. And without astronomicon going there would be crapshoot or extremely slow and luck based attempt with unknown success rate. Crew could die out of old age before reaching there! Assuming chaos doesn't eat them up in the process.
Orks? Same issue as humans basically. They have no astronomicon so fairly much crapshoot by luck to get where they want but they don't care that much as long as destination has fighting. Problem is that long distance with constant de-warping to get bearings would be extremely long boring trip. Would probably infight into death eventually.
Tau? They can't use warp all that well depending on sort of skimming the warp so slower than true warp travel. Plus they have hands busy expanding in THIS galaxy to start chasing new galaxies yet.
Tyranids? Well they do that. That's how they CAME to this galaxy! From another galaxy.
And small? Most sci-fi seems to revolve on OUR galaxy. Maybe not even full of it. Frankly good that way. If going to another galaxy is walk in the park then in-galaxy travel is basically so fast as not to be meaningful time which often leads to not so interesting story. Especially as our world has always had delays in travel so not many writers can write interestingly in a world where travel is so fast.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 21:40:02
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Agile Revenant Titan
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I thought the Necrons just used the Alcubierre Drive, which is something the bods at NASA have proved works.
I thought there were a few experiments and then Nasa gave it up because it was inconclusive?
In Warp Field Mechanics 101 by Harold White (I believe that's his name), he said that using a Alcubierre drive is very difficult currently... I might just be mistaken though, so ignore my ramblings.
Yep they do
I think the bit that's missing from that piece of fluff is the limits on its effectiveness. Make it slower than warp travel and it works much better in-universe. Wouldn't stop them from heading out from the galaxy though. Saying that, there's no real reason for the Necrontyr/Necrons to do so. The Necrontyr only lived short lives, and either held a great empire or at war. The Necrons were either at war or sleeping. Not much opportunity for inter-galactic exploration.
Therion wrote:I love it when people write apologist fluff excuses for something that's one hundred percent explained by the fact that GW writers don't understand even the very basics of astronomy, and that the groundwork for the background was done 30 years ago by a bunch of gamers over pints of beer.
Killjoy
It's about suspension of disbelief, which is a key part of peoples' enjoyment of any given work of fiction.
If explaining some of the inconsistencies with science or reason helps someone enjoy the universe a little more, then what's the harm in doing a bit of thinking?
Plus, it's quite fun really...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 22:16:05
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Dakka Veteran
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chromedog wrote:The eldar utilise the webway for smaller vessels and moving troops around in THIS galaxy. There is nothing written that indicates that the first ones built the webway beyond our galaxy before they "went beyond the rim".
Craftworlds are restricted to sublight speeds. The craftworlds LEFT their home sector of space a little over 10,000 years ago, and STILL haven't got to the galactic rim (the exodites left prior, but only travelled to the extents of their empire where they stayed).
Space is big. Bigger than you think. Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across.
Our closest galaxy is Andromeda. It's 2.5 MILLION light years from the edge of our galaxy. Across a starless void that is 2500 times larger than the diameter of our galaxy.
2.5 million is only 25 times as much as 100,000. Galaxies within local galaxy groups are actually relatively close compared to the distance between stars.
When discussing Chaos, the Warp and Tyranids I get the feeling that Tyranid fans can't praise the Shadow of the Warp enough while at the same time putting so many restrictions on the Chaos Gods' influence through the Warp in other galaxies. Usually it becomes clear that, to some people, Tyranid must be the most widespread and influential faction of the 40k factions.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/09 22:58:40
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Chaospling wrote:that Tyranid fans can't praise the Shadow of the Warp enough while at the same time putting so many restrictions on the Chaos Gods' influence through the Warp in other galaxies. Usually it becomes clear that, to some people, Tyranid must be the most widespread and influential faction of the 40k factions.
Why would you say that? Nobody here said Tyrnaids must be the most widespread and influential faction in this thread. So why bring it up?
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 05:20:20
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Dakka Veteran
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Davor wrote:Chaospling wrote:that Tyranid fans can't praise the Shadow of the Warp enough while at the same time putting so many restrictions on the Chaos Gods' influence through the Warp in other galaxies. Usually it becomes clear that, to some people, Tyranid must be the most widespread and influential faction of the 40k factions.
Why would you say that? Nobody here said Tyrnaids must be the most widespread and influential faction in this thread. So why bring it up?
No not directly of course. Without looking again, I recall that the subject was mentioned at page 1 regarding the Warp and Chaos gods being present in other galaxies and I just remembered several similar discussions.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 06:17:57
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Chaospling wrote:When discussing Chaos, the Warp and Tyranids I get the feeling that Tyranid fans can't praise the Shadow of the Warp enough while at the same time putting so many restrictions on the Chaos Gods' influence through the Warp in other galaxies. Usually it becomes clear that, to some people, Tyranid must be the most widespread and influential faction of the 40k factions.
Who's saying chaos doesn't have influence over there? At worst it depends on amount of intelligent life forms there if one assumes chaos to be localized phenomenon in the warp on where emotions are. Even then all it takes is emotions over there and chaos has just as much influence there as others.
It's the mortals that struggle to go there. Not chaos.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 10:15:07
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Dakka Veteran
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tneva82 wrote:Chaospling wrote:When discussing Chaos, the Warp and Tyranids I get the feeling that Tyranid fans can't praise the Shadow of the Warp enough while at the same time putting so many restrictions on the Chaos Gods' influence through the Warp in other galaxies. Usually it becomes clear that, to some people, Tyranid must be the most widespread and influential faction of the 40k factions.
Who's saying chaos doesn't have influence over there? At worst it depends on amount of intelligent life forms there if one assumes chaos to be localized phenomenon in the warp on where emotions are. Even then all it takes is emotions over there and chaos has just as much influence there as others.
It's the mortals that struggle to go there. Not chaos.
Exactly... Though it raises the question: is the Warp and materium so straight/linear point to point connected? Even if there is no intelligent life, could the Warp still be present/strong in the area or is intelligent life needed within a fair distance? Just you wait... If keeping the thread alive, we'll surely see the discussion soon... Although... I was sure that Hilary Clinton would win as well... Well... I was sure she would get the most votes - forgot about the American system.
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Andy Chambers wrote:
To me the Chaos Space Marines needed to be characterised as a threat reaching back to the Imperium's past, a threat which had refused to lie down and become part of history. This is in part why the gods of Chaos are less pivotal in Codex Chaos; we felt that the motivations of Chaos Space Marines should remain their own, no matter how debased and vile. Though the corrupted Space Marines of the Traitor Legions make excellent champions for the gods of Chaos, they are not pawns and have their own agendas of vengeance, empire-building vindication or arcane study which gives them purpose. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 18:19:15
Subject: Scale of 40k.
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Fixture of Dakka
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Chaospling wrote:Davor wrote:Chaospling wrote:that Tyranid fans can't praise the Shadow of the Warp enough while at the same time putting so many restrictions on the Chaos Gods' influence through the Warp in other galaxies. Usually it becomes clear that, to some people, Tyranid must be the most widespread and influential faction of the 40k factions.
Why would you say that? Nobody here said Tyrnaids must be the most widespread and influential faction in this thread. So why bring it up?
No not directly of course. Without looking again, I recall that the subject was mentioned at page 1 regarding the Warp and Chaos gods being present in other galaxies and I just remembered several similar discussions.
Ah from other discussions then. Got it.
I mentioned that Tyranids came from another galaxy but it should take them forever and a day to get from one galaxy to another galaxy and without using the warp or technology to travel Faster than Light, GW made the scale of 40K small.
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Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong". |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/11/10 21:32:18
Subject: Re:Scale of 40k.
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Confessor Of Sins
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Given some of the newer developments in quantum physics, FTL travel may actually be possible in real life if we're able to create vessels with negative mass. It wouldn't negate the time dilation though, so you may end up arriving at your destination before you left.
Traveling through the Warp to get to another star system may seem incredibly stupid and pointless in another decade.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/11/10 21:35:46
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