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So I have been lucky enough to score a second hand Iron Hands army on the cheap. I have been unable to dedicate much time to the hobby side of things lately, but have kept playing at my weekly club. We have a ITC GT event coming up at the start of the new year and I want to get these guys in shape for a decent outing, but can't do any major reworking, just minor tweaks or a few conversions. I have already done some work to fit out a Fist of the Medusa, and have a gimmicky Drop Pod list that works pretty well. I would love to hear some feedback on any tweaks that could get every ounce of juice from these guys. Here's what I'm running:

Demi Company:
-Captain{WARLORD} in Cataphractii, T.Hammer, Gorgon's Chain
-Devs(5) w/4 Grav Cannons, Drop Pod
-3xTacs(5) w/Grav Cannon, Drop Pod
-Bikers(3) w/2 Grav Guns

1st Co. Srike Force
-2xSternguard(5) w/5 Combi Melta, Drop Pod
-Sternguard(5) w/Drop Pod

Librarius Conclave
-2xLib(ML2) w/Pistol, Sword
-3xLib(ML1) w/Pistol, Sword

So, basic idea is pretty obvious. Captain & ML2 Libby with the Devs and 3xSternguard/ML1 Libby drop in T1. Slow and Purposeful Devs at range mid/long range to ObSec an objective. Libbys spread out to buff FnP and spam Shriek into the -2 Ld Debuff from the 1st Company. Sternguard unload on any LoWs with Melta or Hellfire using PE. Tacs backstop on objectives as they drop in.
Major weaknesses are other Null Deployment lisits, Invis Deathstars, Gorepack with lots of Hounds. I'm not looking for top tables, just a solid showing. I doubt I would have time to get 10 Assault marines and more Grav together for a Skyhammer in time, but any FOC changes that are manageable are on the table.

I also have:
Fully painted:
-2 Storm Talons
-2 Ironclads (with every option added)
-Dread w/Assault Cannon/Powerfist
-About 10 more Tacs
-Techmarine
-Culexus Assassin

Unpainted:
-6xGrav Cannon bits
-Land Speeder, unassembled (potential Raptor Talon)
-IKnight any GW loadout (not realisticly finishable, but I could get it commissioned).

Thoughts are greatly appreciated, thanks for reading.

The issue is that you'll get a max of 3 shrieks off with this setup, 2 if the opponent has any psychic or psychic resistance themselves. Remember, donating powers to the empyric channeling is MANDATORY, by raw you can't opt to have a character sit out. So in order to get all the units able to cast you have to drop the 3 sternguard squads more than 12 inches away from the ML2 psykers, which is doable but a bad scatter murders the whole plan, add on to that the fact that the bonus for the 1st company requires them to drop close together and it just become sort of...iffy,

I think it would just be easier and less volatile to run a Grav Command squad (Bikes or in Pod) with shields and a second captain(Cataphracti with PF Sheild Eternal in pod or Chapter Master PF Shield Eternal Auspex on Bikes) over the LibCon.

I think ultimately you'll do fine with this list but I guarantee it will be frustrating to work around the limitation of the LibCon.

it isnt mandatory, it says you MAY, not that you have to.

I was just chatting with someone about a very similar list last night at the FLGS.

It looks pretty solid as-is.

Some thoughts:
Are you going to get the value out of the grav cannons in the tac squads, as opposed to normal grav guns? With a 5 man squad stepping out of a pod, I suspect you are going to have two states: Disembarking or dead. So you end up paying 20 points for an extra shot and a little more range. Would you be better served with grav guns/combi gravs on the sarges? You end up paying less points for more bang on the alpha strike. If you live to the second turn, and don’t need to move, the cannon will work better. And the Dev squad with the S&P trick will get a lot of use out of them. But I’d swap the tacs over.

I don’t see it happening with the points and everything you are trying to fit in, but getting one sternguard up to 10 men would be nice. They could then combat squad out of the pod and give the debuff all on their own.

 sassyyp wrote:
it isnt mandatory, it says you MAY, not that you have to.

From the Codex Pg. 183: 'At the start of the Psychic phase, you can nominate one Librarian from this formation. If you do this,the nominated Librarian has access to any psychic powers known by other librarians in this formation within 12" until the end of the phase; however, other librarians from this Formation within 12" of the nominated librarian cannot manifest psychic powers until the end of the phase.'

You can opt to not use Empyric channeling at all, sure. But if you DO use empyric channeling EVERY psyker from the formation within 12" MUST donate their powers, the book is very clear that it is not optional once you have chosen to use empryric channeling.

I've had this exact issue at tournaments before and it's always been ruled to be compulsory once they see the wording.

yes but your not taking the lib conclave because of that, your taking it because you want multiple libbys, for this kind of army

 sassyyp wrote:
yes but your not taking the lib conclave because of that, your taking it because you want multiple libbys, for this kind of army

Assuming you never use Empyric channeling:
WIth only 8-13 dice available (7 from ML 1-6 from shared pool ) A normal 4+ to cast is going to require 2 dice to get an WC1 power off consistently, however if your opponent has any dice themselves, let alone something like adamantium will, banking on a single dice success is asking to get denied. which means you'll want at least 2 successes which will take 3 dice to get somewhat reliably. If you roll up invis and want to cast it you'll need at least 4 dice for that but probably want to use 5-6. So you end up in a situation where the max number of shrieks you can reasonably get is 3 without casting invis and 2 with invis, and they can still probably deny at least one of those. A heavy psychic army will likely deny ALL of them (Just try casting shriek on a Cabal Star or screamer star, especially with an ML1 Psyker.)

It's a good idea and can definitely work, I'm just suggesting that it my be more efficient and less frustrating to focus on the offensive punch of marine drop pod shooting than the psychic shenanigans. Ultimately up the the OP, just my two cents.

Thanks for all the brainstorming!

ERJAK wrote:
The issue is that you'll get a max of 3 shrieks off with this setup, 2 if the opponent has any psychic or psychic resistance themselves.

Yes that as been consistent with the games I have played so far. Generally one or two Shrieks against lists with resistance, like Gorepacks and other Conclaves/Cabals (not uncommon in my area). Great when they work, but mostly a jab in the 1-2 punch of the Sternguard.

ERJAK wrote:
Remember, donating powers to the empyric channeling is MANDATORY, by raw you can't opt to have a character sit out. So in order to get all the units able to cast you have to drop the 3 sternguard squads more than 12 inches away from the ML2 psykers, which is doable but a bad scatter murders the whole plan, add on to that the fact that the bonus for the 1st company requires them to drop close together and it just become sort of...iffy,

The Librarians that land front and center with the Sternguard rarely want to Channel. They have been making most use of the Drop Pods and debuff area by also curtailing the movement of fast units and forcing them to waste a turn taking the Sternguard out in order to move again.

ERJAK wrote:
I think it would just be easier and less volatile to run a Grav Command squad (Bikes or in Pod) with shields and a second captain(Cataphracti with PF Sheild Eternal in pod or Chapter Master PF Shield Eternal Auspex on Bikes) over the LibCon.

I believe I can only take one Captain in a Demi-Company (not in front of my Codex, though, only Battlescribe to confirm). The Grav Devs are finished and needed for the Demi Company. If I could get the time I could try to swap them out for walking Grav Cents, that would free up the Captain for a Drop Pod Command Squad. The other drawback would be losing the +1 FnP being spread across the board, but that could be somewhat mitigated by a Chaplin if I could find the points.

ERJAK wrote:
I think ultimately you'll do fine with this list but I guarantee it will be frustrating to work around the limitation of the LibCon.

I know the bigest limitation is when they drop in and are useless due to having no target to shriek, or just casting into a sure fire Deny, like you pointed out. At that point i have been just using them to fuel the Prescience on the Devs, or potentially Terrifying a unit in the Sternguard's bubble.

 Nevelon wrote:
I was just chatting with someone about a very similar list last night at the FLGS.

That was me!

 Nevelon wrote:
Are you going to get the value out of the grav cannons in the tac squads, as opposed to normal grav guns? With a 5 man squad stepping out of a pod, I suspect you are going to have two states: Disembarking or dead. So you end up paying 20 points for an extra shot and a little more range. Would you be better served with grav guns/combi gravs on the sarges? You end up paying less points for more bang on the alpha strike. If you live to the second turn, and don’t need to move, the cannon will work better. And the Dev squad with the S&P trick will get a lot of use out of them. But I’d swap the tacs over.

Funny you should mention it, I have been running them in that configuration! My problem with the Tacticals was that they never got to use their Grav. I will often need them to drop towards the middle of the board or in my deployment zone, to use their ObSec on objectives there. They tend to survive while the Sternguard and Devs are getting into the thick of it, so the Cannons give them a little more range after a turn of sitting put. I could go with a longer ranged heavy for a price cut or a different loadout of special/Combi. What do you think?

 Nevelon wrote:
I don’t see it happening with the points and everything you are trying to fit in, but getting one sternguard up to 10 men would be nice. They could then combat squad out of the pod and give the debuff all on their own.

That's a great idea! I could trim all the weapons on the Tacticals and be almost there with just that. I really have to play around with those points, but that may be a great plan! I couldn't start a Librarian in with them, can an Independent Character detach from its unit during a disembark? That way a neighboring pod could carry an extra an have him jump squads before the psychic phase.

ERJAK wrote:
You can opt to not use Empyric channeling at all, sure. But if you DO use empyric channeling EVERY psyker from the formation within 12" MUST donate their powers, the book is very clear that it is not optional once you have chosen to use empryric channeling.

You are correct, the Channeler takes all his pals within 12". I rarely Channel.

 sassyyp wrote:
yes but your not taking the lib conclave because of that, your taking it because you want multiple libbys, for this kind of army

I was skeptical as to the usefulness of spammed Librarians, even when they give off +1 FnP. They are surprisingly fun and resourceful! Plus opponents don't glare knives and plan your death when they realize you aren't using the Conclave to make a Deathstar.

ERJAK wrote:
It's a good idea and can definitely work, I'm just suggesting that it my be more efficient and less frustrating to focus on the offensive punch of marine drop pod shooting than the psychic shenanigans. Ultimately up the the OP, just my two cents.

The Sternguard and the Devs do the bulk of the heavy lifting, for sure. The Librarians tend to be a more Swiss Army tool and can hold there own scrimmaging in Assault, especially with Fearless Sternguard. They can actually tie up big solo models for a turn or two in a pinch. Last match a Demon Prince had trouble getting through some hot FnP rolls, and a Renegade Knight couldn't 6 out a stomp or hit more than 50% of his Chainsword swings. The Marines will die eventually, but can buy some time.

I would run your tacs as melta, combi-melta. i think you will get more usefulness there, also if you run into a lot of deamon dogs, might want to run a commaned squad in pod with all meltas. like 175 pts
Or maybe a Ironclad dread for crowd control

If I trim the Tacs weapons and drop to one ML2 Libby, I could fit a 10 man Sternguard unit. I love the idea of that unit coming down in one Pod in the center of the enemy line, deploying left and right. Then pod 2 & 3 flank either side and 4 Librarians step out. Two attach to the first Pod's squads. The hindrance to movement for the opponent would be crazy. Jetbikes of course don't care, but nothings perfect.

The Tacticals usually will be out of range for Melta, they usually are religated to "Play to the Mission" roles; especially in Progressive Objective missions (Maelstrom style). I'm inclined to run them naked to shave points, or Grav Cannons because they don't move once deployed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It should also be noted that the mission packet is modified ITC. The Progressive Objectives are scored on the bottom of you turn, and are not random. One point to the Primary for each objective you hold. The Scenarios also have more objectives than the ITC, particularly in the Tactical missions. Kill points are a thing, in 2/3s of the scenarios; but modified. Two of the KP missions are traditional, two are "Tactical Purge", where you get a point for wiping the first unit you finish each turn.