Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hypothetical situation popped into my head as a pondered how my upcoming character, a Commissar in Only War would react to various situations, this one evolves an unruly planet being beset by a overwhelming response from the Imperial guard on a planet wide scale, effectively putting the whole world under martial law. My Commissar is off duty but in full regalia and armed, he wanders down a narrow alley way between two hab blocks and is surrounded by a dozen or more hive gangers.

Now these hooligans have no idea who they are looking at, they have never seen a Commissar before let alone know what he does, to them he's just an important looking foreigner with fancy cloths who probably has plenty of valuable things on his person. This world is so far removed as to not even know what the Imperial Guard is, the PDF is the only real "authority" they've know for as long as they've been alive, and the lives of countless generations before them.

Said gangbangers fully intend to murder and loot all of the Commissar's things, this isn't just a stick up, but as said above they have no idea who they are dealing with and in a few blinding seconds of fighting all of the are cut down to the last man without so much as ruffling the Commissar's shoulder tassels. My question is, is this something a Commissar could get away with doing? Or would there being some sort of repercussions, minor they may be? Would my Commissar have do any paper work or answer to any one for butchering "civvies"? I know they can do this crap to just about anyone in the Imperial Guard but I'm unsure about outside of it.

Paperwork? Most likely. If they're affiliated with a gang that is known? He might get a pat on the back from the local police commissioner.

In the grim dark I don't think anyone would bat an eye. A commissar would execute his own guardsman for far far less. They execute people on whims just to gain compliance.

Like any officer in the Imperium, he can probably treat any serf/commoner any way he sees fit, so long as he can give a decent excuse. He wouldn't be able to screw around with nobles or other officers, but these guys don't sound like anything other than street thugs. I doubt he'd even bother reporting it.

But to me what is more worrisome is the Commisar taking on several guys (who can clearly see he is armed in the first place) and this fight barely ruffles him. Commisars are just normal humans with a lot of faith in empire. Some hand-to-hand training surely, but likely facing hardened street thugs willing to kill a visibly armed individual carrying a sword and a pistol wouldn't be slackers either.

The few officers of the PDF these thugs had encountered before where just braggarts and blowhards with no real combat training, most of their swords where dull, replicas or simply wall hanger blades made to look impressive.

This planet is far enough removed also that no one outside of maybe a few PDF higher ups knew what a power sword was, let alone what it could do against a literal t-shirt save. Also didn't help most of them where so delusional/high on illegal stims they, much like Snotlings didn't know fear until it was too late.

As far as armaments they had simple homemade shanks and a few crude stub revolvers. My Commissar at this point in his career was a certified badass as well, not anywhere close to Yarrick levels of badass, but he definitely registered on the scale.

Yes, he would absolutely be fine. Nobody is going to be upset that a commissar disposed of some local trash unless he really did something odd like gunned down the planetary governor's son or something, and even then he'd probably just get a slap on the wrist unless it's a governor who had some clout with the administratum.

A dozen or more opponents still seems like a tough ask... then again I suppose if they're pretty cowardly and very arrogant they might not expect resistance but then go into shock when said commissar kills two or three guys in seconds. I'd imagine half or more would be able to flee though

Otherwise killing 12+ humans at once is probably astartes territory

If it is an area where law and order is fairly well established then he might get a call from the local arbites watch house asking for his version of events.

I think the only time there might be some trouble is if the local arbites are in the pocket of the gangs or if the commisar's CO had in place standing orders regarding fighting with locals (and was a complete tool).

Killing 12 street thugs? Not a problem, Commissars are trained in the Schola Progenium, which also churns out the Militarum Tempestus. It is the most brutal training regime a non Astartes, outside the Officio Assassinorum, will go through.

Also depends on what wargear he has.

Bear in mind as well, although some may not consider it fluff, Ciaphas Kain could go toe to toe with an Astartes in hand to hand.

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
A dozen or more opponents still seems like a tough ask... then again I suppose if they're pretty cowardly and very arrogant they might not expect resistance but then go into shock when said commissar kills two or three guys in seconds. I'd imagine half or more would be able to flee though

Otherwise killing 12+ humans at once is probably astartes territory

Situation doesn't seem farfetched at all. The Commissar probably killed a guy in overwatch (years of executing fleeing guardsmen has made him a quite good at hitting fast moving targets). The broken beer bottles on the ground count as difficult terrain so those gangers not having have grenades makes them drop down to I1. Said Commissar is especially skilled so he has Lord Commissar stats so 4 attacks hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s, and these gangers don't have any armor so he kills 2 in melee. Gangers probably have WS2 because they don't know proper fighting and leadership 5 because street thugs aren't known for battlefield bravery. They make a disorganized charge because they also wanted to multi charge a nearby trash can but rolled poorly and did not get the distance needed to get around those cardboard boxes to make base to base with the can. The gangers get a total of 9 attacks hitting on 5s, wounding on 4s, and of course the Commissar has a really nice jacket with triple stitching so obviously 4+ armor making it so they wouldn't even get 1 wound. -2 leadership means they are all but certain to make a run for it and the Commissar then sweeps them.

Normally the authority of about a dozen disciplinaries in one clip, but additional authority clips are taken to battle.

He also carries a sword if he runs out of other sources of 'authority' and carries frag grenades if his authority needs to be impressed more widely.

Depending on your build, killing 12 humans in Only War should be a breeze. My Stormtrooper was able to ignore Ork boys attack with enough armor and toughness, while generally killing them in a single or two shots of his hotshot, and he was one of the least tanky characters in our party.

It's quite hard mechanically in Only War for one person, no matter how badass, to kill 12 people in HTH combat. I think the GM fudged.

What? All you need is carapace armor and extra toughness and regular humans wont be able to hurt you. It may take a while, but you can fight them all day.

Ever seen or read judge dread ?
Just how would you expect him to react if some low life thugs walked up to him reporting an officer killing his family or friends.

In the grim darkness of the far future, no one cares if you are butchering civvies. Human life is worthless in the Imperium. A Commissar can kill everyone he damn well likes without repercussions, whether that person is guilty of crimes or not. No one in the Imperium cares for guilt or innocence.
No paperwork involved, no one would care.

You said the planet was under martial law. And the Commissar is an officer. This thugs threaten and attack an officer? I am pretty sure that is a capital offense in the Imperial Guard.

They have enough authority to have the power over life and death within the Imperium. Not a unique characteristic since lives are cheaper then ammunition and just about everyone with even a minor title has such power.

Not all lives are cheap.Most are but a few are not so cheap. Upsetting the political balance by blamming an important noble or an other high profile character might not be the best idea ever. Sure he might have the right to do so, when they disobey his order but those who are active players in the power struggle might not care that much about it.

For example a commissar crazy enough to blam tigerius for miscasting while he was advising a guard company might not live long. But no body would care if he killed off some under hive scum even if they where not that scummy.

Lol, the Commissar isn't going to think twice about his authority to slaughter local scum bags. Neither is anyone in the Imperium. I doubt he'd even bother reporting it. Forgotten by lunch time.

Commissars can, and will, BLAM Imperial soldiers and officers alike for looking at them funny or forgetting to salute or for not having their well-thumbed Uplifting Primer on their person and memorised.

As for them being "normal" humans... not really. They're like Storm Troopers but with even more balls and an even harder iron will. Taking out twelve armed killers while alone and surrounded my be a bit of a stretch outside of plot armour, though. It's more likely that as soon as they see what a Bolt Pistol and Power Sword does to three or four of their friends the rest split and run.

There will absolutely be paperwork. There is always paperwork. The Imperium is a bizarre mixture of feudalism, facism, and nightmare bureaucracy.

Once you've filed the correct forms in triplicate, the Administratum will dispatch someone to mop up the blood and that will be that.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Depending on your build, killing 12 humans in Only War should be a breeze. My Stormtrooper was able to ignore Ork boys attack with enough armor and toughness, while generally killing them in a single or two shots of his hotshot, and he was one of the least tanky characters in our party.

Yeah? At how much experience? The True Grit talent they've all got should keep most small arms from one or even two-shotting orks, unless your dice are absolutely on fire.

If he's just starting out at the standard 300 experience for Specialists, a dozen gangers are at least going to leave him pretty cut up, even if he's got a significant equipment advantage. That said, if he could make an example out of one or two of them...say, if they're unfamiliar with what a bolt pistol does to a human face...

You get to start with a power sword, too? Nifty!

We removed the true grit talent from Ork boys because it bogged down fights, because the boys were never really able to do enough damage.

 Bobthehero wrote:
We removed the true grit talent from Orks because it bogged down fights, because the boys were never really able to do enough damage.

Ah.

That's why.

Yeah, orks as written can take a real beating. I think it represents them pretty well, although they can be frustrating to fight early on if you don't have snipers or heavy weapons. You knock them down to crits relatively easily, then you have to practically shoot every limb off of them before they stop trying to tear your head off.

Usually, taking on twelve opponents in Only War is a bit...suicidal.

 Bobthehero wrote:
We removed the true grit talent from Orks because it bogged down fights, because the boys were never really able to do enough damage.

Lol I wonder if some of the ork codex designer had a similar idea. Yeah that army wide fnp, , kff saves and invul saves are just going to bog down the game. Lets just remove them .

There was no fun in having fights lasting a bunch of extra rounds just because. We kept it on Nobs because they were an actual threat, but on boys there was no real benefits, even the Ork player agreed to it. It still made boys tougher than normal humans (our party was not normal humans)

 Bobthehero wrote:
There was no fun in having fights lasting a bunch of extra rounds just because. We kept it on Nobs because they were an actual threat, but on boys there was no real benefits, even the Ork player agreed to it. It still made boys tougher than normal humans (our party was not normal humans)

I mean, yeah, they're tougher, but if they're dying to one hit from a hot-shot...

Definitely not gonna tell you how to play your RPG, though. If it works for you guys, it works for you guys! I avoid using orks as enemies when I GM after a taste of how ork fights drag on longer, but that's solely because I run PbP games, and slow combat is where PbP dies. It's self-defense.

I would still strongly caution the OP about trying to take on a dozen enemies, even as backstory. It's a brutal game and PC death is far from uncommon. If they're played even halfway intelligently - flanking, taking cover, maybe using suppressing fire if they have an opening...honestly, even if they all line up and shoot at him - one man against twelve is going to end with a burned Fate point.

(Unless he's Marbo in disguise.)

 Spinner wrote:
There will absolutely be paperwork. There is always paperwork. The Imperium is a bizarre mixture of feudalism, facism, and nightmare bureaucracy.

Once you've filed the correct forms in triplicate, the Administratum will dispatch someone to mop up the blood and that will be that.

Yeah, and those forms will go to the bottom of a pile a mile and a half high and sit in someone's in-tray for about ten years before they're sent off to the Administratum, where they'll be waiting another ten years for some clerk (or servitor) to sign off on them. Then the craft with the mop-up team will spend half a century getting there becuase they took a wrong turn in the Warp, and when they arrive, nearly a hundred years later to mop up the blood, the planet's changed hands several times between the Imperium, Orks, Necrons and is currently being overrun by a Genestealer cult!

Hey I know why you did it in your game I my game group would have done the same (as would any sane group probably). Combats are already slow in most RPG fights, no need to bog it even more down.

But the image of a codex game designer not wanting to bog down the game down and thus just removing all saves is hard to get out of my head.

Commissars have the right to execute ranking officers even in forces that they are not attached to, so yes they can also presumably exercise that right on common citizenry.

 Spinner wrote:

I mean, yeah, they're tougher, but if they're dying to one hit from a hot-shot...

All the shooty feats, 81 BS and a very modified hotshot. It took some luck, yes, but it was definitively feasable.