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Hey Dakka,
Just throwing this out there, but I've been itching to play with some Flash Gitz with my speed freaks army. You know, i ust stick em in a trukk and go to town!
They draw my eye from lootas because, well, everyone has and loves their lootas, and I just don't want to play with what everyone else has. And second, woth a nob profile, they can take the beating from an exploding trukk just a little better than boy-based units can.
Having assault weapons allows them to move around the board while raking advantage of that sweet orky ballistic skill, and even if they stand still, they shoot better than lootas.
S5 is enough to glance rhinos and othee transports well enough, and variable AP might cause the occasional explosion of their own ! A guaranteed 3 shots a piece is also a great reason to bring them, as you can never be entirely sure how many rounds are going ro stick to the enemy, but it's probably more hits than lootas will have.
There's just something about them that draws me to them, but I want them to at least be marginally competitive before trying to bring them in a list. Its just no fun playing with underperforming units...
Price to field them is also a pretty good deal: for only 4 points pver a regular nob with the same profile, you get the snazzgun, a boss pole and a gitfinda! What a deal!

Does anyone use these guys? Is there any actual preference for them, or are they just another pretty model kit that collects dust well? I haven't been able to find a battle report where they actually got the chance to fire and would like to see them kn action at least once.
Comments and thoughts are welcome as always!

I've tried them 3 times. They did more damage in melee than with shooting all 3 times and haven't payed off even once. Though, 2 out of those 3 times they had 'eavy armor instead of bosspoles as part of my homebrew codex i was trying out back than.

All in all, they can be taken, but they're not too great. I'd prefer a min unit in a trukk to a large unit in a battlewagon just cause they tend to underperform and die horribly fast anywayz.

And it's no use comparing them to lootas. Lootas are fielded somewhere at the backfield in a ruin scoring an objective and firing away with autocannons. Flash gits are a mish-mash of shooting and assault without being too choppy, too shooty and too resilient. While being quite expensive at the same time. They'd see more use if they were elite and had 'eavy armor instead of all those useless bosspoles. Or were mounted on a boy platform and operated as pure shooters for half the price.

There are some local players who love them. I just don't get why. The combination of poor range, poor saves and a high point cost just don't cut it for me. The last time I faced them I just blasted them to oblivion with a single whyveren that costed 1/4th of the point cost of the unit of flash gits.

Another problem is that you'll need lootas even if you take flash gitz anywayz - they do different things.

If you really want to avoid lootas (like i did) take a look at mek gunz. They can be tougher and somewhat more reliable. Range and lack of mobility is their downside but you're not forced to sit in ruins with mek gunz. They're tough enough anywayz. And you can build them from ww2 guns for really cheap.

In my Blitz Brigade lists they do work as the Battlewagon they ride in can park in ruins and become a bunker for the Gitz to shoot out of with their BS3. Great against MEQs as they bypass their armor 66% of the time and they put out a lot of shots in general. In very few games have they not pulled their weight but they are indeed squishy (at least they survive vehicle explosions well enough) so extreme care must be taken when exiting their transports or charging into CC. That said I've had multiple games where their volume of mid strength shooting and the ability to melt armor to turn games in my favor.

The biggest issue with Flash Gitz is that they just don't really answer any of the big Ork problems in a reliable fashion. They basically are bigger shoota boyz with RNG AP but again compared to shoota boyz they have more depth as a shooting unit. They aren't going to solve your durability, morale, or anti high toughness/AV issues that plague most Ork armies. For me their unique set of equipment and unit size works well with my focus on Battlewagon lists so I can shove the firepower of a shoota boy squad in a Killkannon Battlewagon and gain some armor melting potential when I'm spamming dice at 3+ or 2+ saves. I rarely send them in to melee until late game because their lack of armor is punishing for CC (give them back their 4+..... maybe steal it from those Eldar jetbike gitz ).

I'm currently building some to add to my Bad Moon army (because fluff). On paper, it seems like they're more worth taking against stuff with a decent save, but less so against anything like guard or other Orks, when you're better off spending the same points on Shoota Boyz. I guess I'll have to wait til they hit the tabletop to have a strong view on them one way or the other though
.

Well the fundamental problem of Flash Gitz is that they are a Nob model. Nobz are probably about 6-8pts over priced as a model by themselves. Then your adding on a gun that is Assault 3 with D6 AP. Thats not terrible but you have to remember that Assault 3 on a BS2 model = 1 hit per model on average. So if you take 5 models your going to be putting out 5 hits. This is another problem with the ork codex, specifically whoever designed it. We pay premium points for weapons with lots of shots but the problem is that we have BS2. Let me put it this way, a Snazz gun is S5 Assault 3 with Random AP, this is a shorter ranged version of a Heavy bolter, the difference is that the SM Heavy bolter is going to hit 2 out of 3 shots at 36in range compared to our 1 shot at 24.

Whoever designed our codex (im convinced it was someone who hated orks) tried to give us a little boost by giving us a Git Finda, the problem with that is that it doesn't work if you move and with a short ranged gun your going to have to be moving.

Finally The bosspoles....fething why? If you dropped those and gave them Eavy Armor they would be a bit better but still not really worth taking. If you want some short ranged fire power your better off taking shoota boyz.

SemperMortis wrote:
Well the fundamental problem of Flash Gitz is that they are a Nob model. Nobz are probably about 6-8pts over priced as a model by themselves. Then your adding on a gun that is Assault 3 with D6 AP. Thats not terrible but you have to remember that Assault 3 on a BS2 model = 1 hit per model on average. So if you take 5 models your going to be putting out 5 hits. This is another problem with the ork codex, specifically whoever designed it. We pay premium points for weapons with lots of shots but the problem is that we have BS2. Let me put it this way, a Snazz gun is S5 Assault 3 with Random AP, this is a shorter ranged version of a Heavy bolter, the difference is that the SM Heavy bolter is going to hit 2 out of 3 shots at 36in range compared to our 1 shot at 24.

Whoever designed our codex (im convinced it was someone who hated orks) tried to give us a little boost by giving us a Git Finda, the problem with that is that it doesn't work if you move and with a short ranged gun your going to have to be moving.

Finally The bosspoles....fething why? If you dropped those and gave them Eavy Armor they would be a bit better but still not really worth taking. If you want some short ranged fire power your better off taking shoota boyz.

Flash Gitz had gitfinders before but they use to allow premeasure before it became standard in 6th and then where changed in an FAQ/Errata into Ignores Cover. The current gitfinder would be nice except the whole not moving requirement (including the transport moving) means it realistically only works turn 1 in a blitz brigade or else its probably not having an impact until at least turn 2+. GW was really going for a toned down approach when they wrote the Ork dex so we get a lot of rather meh rules (The writer had PTSD from Nob Bikers and Killa Kan walls). Everything having a zogging bosspole is 100% because the new models where designed with bosspoles so they wrote the rules to accommodate that despite it having nearly zero purpose.

O Flash Gitz, I want you to be awesome but you're really not. From time to time I give them a try and usually have fun with them but they really aren't as good as their points cost would indicate. The most fun I had with them was Badrukk's Flash Gitz formation all in one unit with attached Mega Force Field Big Mek and Painboy, I didn't roll worse than AP3 all game and deleted a couple of units of Terminators and Marines. The memory of that game increases the sorrow in subsequent games when they do nothing except make Battlecannons and the like look amazing as they're Instant Deathed into oblivion.

My friend sticks a big mek (in mega armour) with the mega force field, Nobs with a 4+ invun (and 2+ Tank Saves from Big Mek) and BS3 3 shot APD6 weapons camping in a building is VERY powerful

He really only takes them because his warboss is a pirate named Kaptain Smashface and his flash gitz are his "Merry Men"

Have you ever asked yourself how many points this squad was ; P
Also gitfinda + Mega armour is FAQed as a no.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

That Mega big mek with the WAAAAAAgh ghazz kff alone is 150pts and it will come with some serious downsides for your army since you will have to play whaaaaagh ghazz.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Have you ever asked yourself how many points this squad was ; P
Also gitfinda + Mega armour is FAQed as a no.

Well it really depends on how many Flash Gitz he takes, but at a minimum that unit is going to cost 260pts for 6 models and 370pts at max.

So with the full unit you have 30 S5 shots, not terrible but somehow this guy is forgetting they have a range of 24 and can't move without ruining there BS3.

Also a Big Mek has 2 Wounds, so tanking with him is kind of a bad idea. Even a SM Tac squad at MAX range is going to inflict at least 1 wound on a 2+ save model.

Being max 11 models is also a serious issue if you go waaagh ghazz. You will need to test for ld once you lose 3 flash gits and guess what the mob rule is suddenly changed to 1: you take a lot of hits 2+ you run away :\

 oldzoggy wrote:
Being max 11 models is also a serious issue if you go waaagh ghazz. You will need to test for ld once you lose 3 flash gits and guess what the mob rule is suddenly changed to 1: you take a lot of hits 2+ you run away :\

Yup. Mob Rule is just terrible.

Keep mob rule as is, change Boss poles to the old rule and raise Nob LD to 8.

Frankly, what kills them for me is the unreliable AP. If they were just consistently AP3, they might be decent for MEQ hunting, but as it stands, even though they are technically better at killing 2+ armor than if their AP was locked in, they're just too unreliable, even for Orks. They might kill the target I'm going after with aplomb, but they might also do jack-all, and there's no way to know until you pick a target and see how things go. It's just not an acceptable risk, when you're investing that many points into the squad.

I'm not really sure what to do with them. I think I'd stick a pain boy and a Mega armourd Big mek with KFF in their unit. But that's a load of points. I'd have the Mega Mek make all the light saves but I hate the idea of him ding and taking the KFF with him. They really, to me, need something to tank for them. it could be as simple as a Mega Boss but. Not really what I want to do with one.

I have had plenty of success with them especially now that they can take a Battlewagon as a dedicated transport and use it as a mobile fortress. Nobody really points anything at them when there are Meganobz bearing down on there front lines. I like to keep there BW under KFF protection also just to make it harder to deal with. As the OP pointed out in the beginning these guys are very reasonably costed at only 4 points over a basic Nob they get all that great wargear. Now that the Snazzgun doesn't completely suck like it did in the 4th edition codex you should feel confident that these guys will mow down MEQ's and TEQ'S with ease as most players don't have the experience playing against them to know they are a threat.

 warhead01 wrote:
I'm not really sure what to do with them. I think I'd stick a pain boy and a Mega armourd Big mek with KFF in their unit. But that's a load of points. I'd have the Mega Mek make all the light saves but I hate the idea of him ding and taking the KFF with him. They really, to me, need something to tank for them. it could be as simple as a Mega Boss but. Not really what I want to do with one.

Battlewagon with a Killkannon. Turn 1 you move up 6 and shoot and try to give yourself cover. Set up a firebase of sorts in the midfield while your melee units go in and draw the attention away from the Gitz wagon. If you have to bail out of the wagon your near good cover and your set up in the midfield so your 24" guns can cover a good chunk of the busy area of the board without needing to move much or at all. A Blitz Brigade gives that 12" scout move so they can start turn 1 where they generally want to be in their AV14 box and have BS3 shooting from a place of good cover.

If your not on board with battlewagons then just get a painboy. KFF is such a huge expense for them when they typically are skulking around in cover and it won't help them when they go into melee combat. A CAD with grots + Painboys can help provide enough slots to field enough Painboys to cover your bases while those grots make great sneaky backfield objective campers or annoying speed bumps.

I propose keeping them the same price, bump their armor to 4+ and make the guns be AP D3.

Bam, they're mildly more specialized.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I propose keeping them the same price, bump their armor to 4+ and make the guns be AP D3.

Bam, they're mildly more specialized.

Mhm, almost a form of orky sternguard, except they're more elite-infantry hunters.

The kaptin should also, at the very least, have access to some CC options, with the obvious PK, Big Choppa be the main ones, maybe a Flash Git exclusive "Kustom Choppa", that's basically a power sword to show off the sword weapon you get from the kit.


I've also had some success using them as an outflanking unit in a battlewagon or trukk from the special rules given from Mogrok's Bossboyz, where they give D3 units Outflank with Acute Senses. Lets them close onto a flank that mitigates their short 24" range while also setting up objective grabbing in the enemy backfield.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I propose keeping them the same price, bump their armor to 4+ and make the guns be AP D3.

Bam, they're mildly more specialized.

22pts for a Nob model with a assault 3 S5 AP3 weapon doesn't really do it for me. Your statistically going to do more damage to MEQS with Warbikers using Dakka Gunz then you are the Flash Gitz (at same points cost) And those Warbikers are significantly more durable with 4+ Saves, Jink and T5.

So yeah no, Nobz in general need to be about 6-8pts cheaper per model, or 4-6pts cheaper and come standard with Eavy Armor. If Flashgitz were 4pts cheaper a model with Eavy Armor then even with the random AP they would be more feasible (also if the Git Finda was fixed to work regardless of moving).

SemperMortis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I propose keeping them the same price, bump their armor to 4+ and make the guns be AP D3.

Bam, they're mildly more specialized.

22pts for a Nob model with a assault 3 S5 AP3 weapon doesn't really do it for me. Your statistically going to do more damage to MEQS with Warbikers using Dakka Gunz then you are the Flash Gitz (at same points cost) And those Warbikers are significantly more durable with 4+ Saves, Jink and T5.

So yeah no, Nobz in general need to be about 6-8pts cheaper per model, or 4-6pts cheaper and come standard with Eavy Armor. If Flashgitz were 4pts cheaper a model with Eavy Armor then even with the random AP they would be more feasible (also if the Git Finda was fixed to work regardless of moving).

Warbikers can't take a transport and that can significantly make Flash Gitz more durable.

How about keep the same price, keep my fixes, and bump the gun to S6. Now they and Lootas actually compete against each other.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I propose keeping them the same price, bump their armor to 4+ and make the guns be AP D3.

Bam, they're mildly more specialized.

22pts for a Nob model with a assault 3 S5 AP3 weapon doesn't really do it for me. Your statistically going to do more damage to MEQS with Warbikers using Dakka Gunz then you are the Flash Gitz (at same points cost) And those Warbikers are significantly more durable with 4+ Saves, Jink and T5.

So yeah no, Nobz in general need to be about 6-8pts cheaper per model, or 4-6pts cheaper and come standard with Eavy Armor. If Flashgitz were 4pts cheaper a model with Eavy Armor then even with the random AP they would be more feasible (also if the Git Finda was fixed to work regardless of moving).

Warbikers can't take a transport and that can significantly make Flash Gitz more durable.

How about keep the same price, keep my fixes, and bump the gun to S6. Now they and Lootas actually compete against each other.

Except that Lootas are still cheaper, are still longer ranged, and still have a stronger weapon. Yeah 4+ armor will help Flash Gitz but remember that those Flash gitz need to be in the face of the enemy to do anything, and since they are so expensive they will get focus fired fairly often and since a lot of weapons are now at least AP4 its easy to see them getting wiped out rather quickly.

No Flashgitz will be useless until nobz in general get a points reduction and someone who actually likes the Ork Faction writes the codex.

 commander dante wrote:
and BS3

It only works if they stay still.